Zuckerberg Back on X Challenging Codex & Claude Code

Kind: captions Language: en as<00:00:00.480><c> three</c><00:00:01.040><c> inveterate</c><00:00:01.920><c> Twitter</c><00:00:02.320><c> junkies</c> as three inveterate Twitter junkies here.<00:00:03.120><c> We</c><00:00:03.360><c> know</c><00:00:03.439><c> where</c><00:00:03.600><c> the</c><00:00:03.760><c> action</c><00:00:04.000><c> is</c><00:00:04.160><c> and</c><00:00:04.319><c> it</c> here. We know where the action is and it ain't<00:00:04.640><c> on</c><00:00:04.880><c> threads.</c><00:00:05.440><c> Okay,</c><00:00:05.759><c> let's</c><00:00:06.080><c> be</c><00:00:06.240><c> honest,</c>

ain't on threads. Okay, let's be honest, people.<00:00:07.120><c> If</c><00:00:07.359><c> there</c><00:00:07.520><c> was</c><00:00:07.759><c> action</c><00:00:08.160><c> on</c><00:00:08.400><c> threads,</c> people. If there was action on threads, Harry,<00:00:09.280><c> you'd</c><00:00:09.519><c> be</c><00:00:09.599><c> there.</c><00:00:09.920><c> I</c><00:00:10.080><c> would.</c><00:00:10.400><c> If</c><00:00:10.639><c> there</c> Harry, you'd be there. I would. If there was<00:00:10.960><c> action</c><00:00:11.280><c> on</c><00:00:11.519><c> Mars,</c><00:00:12.000><c> Harry,</c><00:00:12.320><c> you'd</c><00:00:12.480><c> be</c>

was action on Mars, Harry, you'd be there this<00:00:14.799><c> week.</c><00:00:15.200><c> Number</c><00:00:15.440><c> one,</c><00:00:15.920><c> Apple</c><00:00:16.240><c> sues</c><00:00:16.720><c> Open</c> this week. Number one, Apple sues Open AI<00:00:17.440><c> for</c><00:00:17.680><c> trade</c><00:00:18.240><c> secret</c><00:00:18.720><c> theft.</c><00:00:19.439><c> Number</c><00:00:19.680><c> two,</c> AI for trade secret theft. Number two, Meta<00:00:20.640><c> fights</c><00:00:20.960><c> back</c><00:00:21.199><c> on</c><00:00:21.359><c> the</c><00:00:21.600><c> coding</c><00:00:21.920><c> model</c>

Meta fights back on the coding model front<00:00:22.720><c> and</c><00:00:22.960><c> Zuck</c><00:00:23.359><c> is</c><00:00:23.600><c> back</c><00:00:23.840><c> on</c><00:00:24.080><c> X.</c><00:00:24.640><c> And</c><00:00:24.800><c> then</c> front and Zuck is back on X. And then number<00:00:25.199><c> three,</c><00:00:25.680><c> SKH</c><00:00:26.080><c> Highix</c><00:00:26.560><c> prices</c><00:00:26.960><c> a</c><00:00:27.279><c> $26.5</c> number three, SKH Highix prices a $26.5 billion<00:00:29.199><c> NASDAQ</c><00:00:29.760><c> listing,</c><00:00:30.320><c> bringing</c><00:00:30.640><c> the</c>

billion NASDAQ listing, bringing the compute<00:00:31.359><c> and</c><00:00:31.679><c> infrastructure</c><00:00:32.480><c> layer</c><00:00:32.719><c> to</c><00:00:32.960><c> the</c> compute and infrastructure layer to the public<00:00:33.520><c> domain.</c> public domain. >> To<00:00:34.320><c> some</c><00:00:34.480><c> extent,</c><00:00:34.719><c> it</c><00:00:34.800><c> may</c><00:00:34.880><c> have</c><00:00:34.960><c> been</c><00:00:35.120><c> a</c> >> To some extent, it may have been a

distraction<00:00:35.680><c> for</c><00:00:35.920><c> OpenAI</c><00:00:36.480><c> that</c><00:00:36.640><c> they</c><00:00:36.800><c> were</c><00:00:36.880><c> so</c> distraction for OpenAI that they were so successful<00:00:37.440><c> in</c><00:00:37.680><c> consumer.</c><00:00:38.160><c> If</c><00:00:38.399><c> this</c><00:00:38.559><c> was</c><00:00:38.640><c> a</c> successful in consumer. If this was a mercy<00:00:39.200><c> killing,</c><00:00:39.600><c> Apple</c><00:00:39.920><c> may</c><00:00:40.079><c> have</c><00:00:40.239><c> done</c><00:00:40.399><c> them</c>

mercy killing, Apple may have done them a<00:00:40.719><c> favor.</c><00:00:41.120><c> In</c><00:00:41.360><c> the</c><00:00:41.520><c> early</c><00:00:41.680><c> stage,</c><00:00:41.920><c> when</c><00:00:42.079><c> you're</c> a favor. In the early stage, when you're on<00:00:42.399><c> the</c><00:00:42.480><c> board,</c><00:00:42.719><c> you</c><00:00:42.879><c> can't</c><00:00:43.120><c> invest</c><00:00:43.360><c> in</c><00:00:43.520><c> two</c> on the board, you can't invest in two competitors.<00:00:44.399><c> In</c><00:00:44.640><c> the</c><00:00:44.800><c> late</c><00:00:45.040><c> stage,</c>

competitors. In the late stage, structurally,<00:00:45.840><c> you</c><00:00:46.079><c> have</c><00:00:46.160><c> to.</c> structurally, you have to. >> If<00:00:46.640><c> you</c><00:00:46.719><c> don't</c><00:00:46.800><c> want</c><00:00:46.960><c> to</c><00:00:47.039><c> be</c><00:00:47.200><c> worth</c><00:00:47.440><c> 1x,</c><00:00:47.920><c> like</c> >> If you don't want to be worth 1x, like do<00:00:48.320><c> something</c><00:00:48.480><c> before</c><00:00:48.719><c> it's</c><00:00:48.960><c> too</c><00:00:49.120><c> late,</c><00:00:49.440><c> man.</c>

do something before it's too late, man. Ready<00:00:50.239><c> to</c><00:00:50.399><c> get</c><00:00:50.559><c> him?</c> >> [music] >> Guys,<00:01:02.719><c> it</c><00:01:02.960><c> is</c><00:01:03.120><c> so</c><00:01:03.280><c> good</c><00:01:03.440><c> to</c><00:01:03.680><c> be</c><00:01:03.760><c> back.</c><00:01:04.239><c> As</c> >> Guys, it is so good to be back. As always,<00:01:05.119><c> uh</c><00:01:05.280><c> there</c><00:01:05.439><c> is</c><00:01:05.600><c> a</c><00:01:05.840><c> lot</c><00:01:05.920><c> for</c><00:01:06.159><c> us</c><00:01:06.320><c> to</c>

always, uh there is a lot for us to discuss.<00:01:07.439><c> Um</c><00:01:08.720><c> why</c><00:01:08.880><c> don't</c><00:01:09.040><c> we</c><00:01:09.200><c> start</c><00:01:09.520><c> with</c><00:01:09.680><c> the</c> discuss. Um why don't we start with the trillion<00:01:10.240><c> dollar</c><00:01:10.560><c> company</c><00:01:10.880><c> that</c><00:01:11.119><c> is</c><00:01:11.360><c> Apple</c><00:01:12.240><c> as</c> trillion dollar company that is Apple as it<00:01:12.720><c> brings</c><00:01:12.960><c> in</c><00:01:13.200><c> another</c><00:01:13.520><c> trillion</c><00:01:14.000><c> dollar</c>

it brings in another trillion dollar company<00:01:14.560><c> in</c><00:01:14.799><c> the</c><00:01:14.880><c> form</c><00:01:15.119><c> of</c><00:01:15.280><c> Open</c><00:01:15.680><c> AI</c><00:01:16.400><c> where</c> company in the form of Open AI where Apple<00:01:17.200><c> sues</c><00:01:17.680><c> Open</c><00:01:18.080><c> AAI</c><00:01:18.720><c> for</c><00:01:19.119><c> trade</c><00:01:19.600><c> secret</c> Apple sues Open AAI for trade secret theft.<00:01:21.200><c> Essentially,</c><00:01:22.640><c> one</c><00:01:22.880><c> of</c><00:01:23.040><c> Apple's</c>

theft. Essentially, one of Apple's long-term<00:01:24.560><c> 24-year</c><00:01:25.280><c> vets</c><00:01:26.080><c> was</c><00:01:26.479><c> taking</c> long-term 24-year vets was taking secrets<00:01:27.840><c> to</c><00:01:28.080><c> Open</c><00:01:28.400><c> AI</c><00:01:28.960><c> and</c><00:01:29.280><c> sharing</c> secrets to Open AI and sharing information<00:01:30.080><c> that</c><00:01:30.320><c> he</c><00:01:30.560><c> shouldn't</c><00:01:30.880><c> have</c><00:01:31.040><c> been.</c> information that he shouldn't have been.

Just<00:01:34.079><c> to</c><00:01:34.240><c> be</c><00:01:34.400><c> clear</c><00:01:34.640><c> on</c><00:01:34.960><c> this</c><00:01:35.119><c> is</c><00:01:35.200><c> a</c><00:01:35.360><c> really</c> Just to be clear on this is a really serious<00:01:36.000><c> thing</c><00:01:36.159><c> and</c><00:01:36.320><c> there's</c><00:01:36.560><c> actually</c><00:01:36.799><c> some</c> serious thing and there's actually some conclusions<00:01:38.560><c> that</c><00:01:38.720><c> we</c><00:01:38.880><c> can</c><00:01:39.040><c> share</c><00:01:39.280><c> with</c>

conclusions that we can share with listeners<00:01:40.000><c> in</c><00:01:40.240><c> a</c><00:01:40.400><c> second.</c><00:01:40.720><c> But</c><00:01:40.960><c> on</c><00:01:41.200><c> the</c><00:01:41.360><c> facts,</c> listeners in a second. But on the facts, the<00:01:42.560><c> 24</c><00:01:42.960><c> year</c><00:01:43.200><c> veteran</c><00:01:43.520><c> is</c><00:01:43.840><c> Tang</c><00:01:44.159><c> Tang</c><00:01:44.560><c> and</c><00:01:44.799><c> he</c> the 24 year veteran is Tang Tang and he

he's<00:01:46.320><c> named</c><00:01:46.640><c> in</c><00:01:46.799><c> the</c><00:01:46.960><c> suit,</c><00:01:47.200><c> but</c><00:01:47.439><c> the</c><00:01:47.680><c> person</c> he's named in the suit, but the person who<00:01:48.000><c> was</c><00:01:48.159><c> alleged</c><00:01:48.479><c> to</c><00:01:48.640><c> have</c><00:01:48.880><c> taken</c><00:01:49.200><c> the</c> who was alleged to have taken the secrets<00:01:49.920><c> was</c><00:01:50.159><c> the</c><00:01:50.320><c> six-year</c><00:01:50.799><c> Apple</c><00:01:51.119><c> employee</c>

secrets was the six-year Apple employee Changlu.<00:01:52.880><c> Tang</c><00:01:53.200><c> Tang</c><00:01:53.520><c> is</c><00:01:53.680><c> is</c><00:01:53.920><c> in</c><00:01:54.079><c> charge</c><00:01:54.240><c> of</c> Changlu. Tang Tang is is in charge of the<00:01:54.560><c> hardware</c><00:01:54.880><c> division</c><00:01:55.200><c> at</c><00:01:55.360><c> OpenAI</c><00:01:56.000><c> after</c> the hardware division at OpenAI after having<00:01:56.560><c> been</c><00:01:56.720><c> a</c><00:01:56.880><c> super</c><00:01:57.119><c> secret</c><00:01:57.520><c> executive,</c>

having been a super secret executive, senior<00:01:58.560><c> executive</c><00:01:58.960><c> at</c><00:01:59.600><c> um</c><00:02:00.079><c> Apple.</c><00:02:00.799><c> And</c><00:02:00.960><c> the</c> senior executive at um Apple. And the allegation<00:02:01.600><c> for</c><00:02:01.840><c> him</c><00:02:02.000><c> is</c><00:02:02.159><c> that</c><00:02:02.320><c> he</c><00:02:02.560><c> encouraged</c> allegation for him is that he encouraged hires<00:02:03.600><c> to</c><00:02:03.759><c> bring</c><00:02:03.920><c> the</c><00:02:04.159><c> stuff</c><00:02:04.399><c> over,</c><00:02:05.040><c> right?</c>

hires to bring the stuff over, right? Which<00:02:05.520><c> is</c><00:02:05.920><c> just</c><00:02:06.159><c> slightly</c><00:02:06.560><c> different,</c><00:02:07.200><c> right?</c> Which is just slightly different, right? >> Absolutely.<00:02:08.560><c> And</c><00:02:08.720><c> he</c><00:02:08.879><c> encouraged</c><00:02:09.200><c> them</c><00:02:09.360><c> to</c> >> Absolutely. And he encouraged them to bring<00:02:09.759><c> actual</c><00:02:10.239><c> pots</c><00:02:10.959><c> for</c><00:02:11.920><c> show</c><00:02:12.160><c> and</c><00:02:12.400><c> tell.</c>

bring actual pots for show and tell. >> Exactly.<00:02:14.400><c> And</c><00:02:15.280><c> you</c><00:02:15.440><c> know,</c><00:02:15.599><c> I</c><00:02:15.760><c> think</c><00:02:15.840><c> the</c><00:02:16.080><c> big</c> >> Exactly. And you know, I think the big picture<00:02:16.640><c> here</c><00:02:16.959><c> is</c><00:02:17.280><c> in</c><00:02:17.520><c> partic</c><00:02:17.840><c> I</c><00:02:18.080><c> mean,</c><00:02:18.400><c> so</c> picture here is in partic I mean, so let's<00:02:18.879><c> start</c><00:02:19.040><c> with</c><00:02:19.200><c> the</c><00:02:19.360><c> advice</c><00:02:19.840><c> to</c><00:02:20.080><c> anyone</c>

let's start with the advice to anyone listening.<00:02:21.040><c> Don't</c><00:02:21.280><c> ever</c><00:02:21.520><c> do</c><00:02:21.680><c> this</c><00:02:22.560><c> because</c> listening. Don't ever do this because the<00:02:24.080><c> person</c><00:02:24.400><c> on</c><00:02:24.720><c> point,</c><00:02:25.120><c> the</c><00:02:25.360><c> individual</c><00:02:25.840><c> who</c> the person on point, the individual who brought<00:02:26.319><c> that</c><00:02:26.560><c> stuff</c><00:02:26.800><c> across,</c><00:02:27.680><c> I</c><00:02:27.840><c> read</c><00:02:27.920><c> the</c>

brought that stuff across, I read the lawsuit<00:02:28.400><c> this</c><00:02:28.560><c> morning,</c><00:02:28.879><c> 41</c><00:02:29.280><c> pages,</c><00:02:29.680><c> didn't</c> lawsuit this morning, 41 pages, didn't read<00:02:30.080><c> it</c><00:02:30.160><c> all,</c><00:02:30.319><c> but</c><00:02:30.560><c> kind</c><00:02:30.800><c> of</c><00:02:31.760><c> got</c><00:02:32.000><c> through</c><00:02:32.160><c> a</c> read it all, but kind of got through a good<00:02:32.480><c> slug</c><00:02:32.720><c> of</c><00:02:32.879><c> it.</c><00:02:33.680><c> There's</c><00:02:33.920><c> a</c><00:02:34.160><c> lot</c><00:02:34.319><c> of</c>

good slug of it. There's a lot of fact-based<00:02:35.360><c> evidence</c><00:02:35.760><c> that</c><00:02:36.000><c> the</c><00:02:36.239><c> person</c><00:02:36.480><c> who</c> fact-based evidence that the person who took<00:02:36.959><c> this</c><00:02:37.120><c> stuff</c><00:02:37.360><c> did</c><00:02:37.599><c> it</c><00:02:37.920><c> and</c><00:02:38.080><c> he's</c><00:02:38.400><c> screwed.</c> took this stuff did it and he's screwed. And<00:02:39.280><c> the</c><00:02:39.440><c> first</c><00:02:39.599><c> thing</c><00:02:39.760><c> he's</c><00:02:40.080><c> going</c><00:02:40.160><c> to</c>

And the first thing he's going to discover<00:02:41.599><c> is</c><00:02:42.319><c> there's</c><00:02:42.720><c> no</c><00:02:43.120><c> gratitude</c><00:02:43.680><c> in</c><00:02:43.920><c> in</c> discover is there's no gratitude in in litigation,<00:02:45.120><c> right?</c><00:02:45.519><c> You</c><00:02:45.680><c> think</c><00:02:45.840><c> you're</c> litigation, right? You think you're caught<00:02:46.400><c> helping</c><00:02:46.640><c> your</c><00:02:46.879><c> new</c><00:02:47.040><c> employee</c><00:02:47.360><c> are</c>

caught helping your new employee are trying<00:02:47.680><c> to</c><00:02:47.760><c> get</c><00:02:47.840><c> a</c><00:02:48.080><c> job.</c><00:02:48.319><c> They're</c><00:02:48.560><c> going</c><00:02:48.640><c> to</c> trying to get a job. They're going to burn<00:02:48.959><c> you</c><00:02:49.120><c> so</c><00:02:49.360><c> fast</c><00:02:49.599><c> your</c><00:02:49.760><c> head's</c><00:02:50.080><c> going</c><00:02:50.160><c> to</c> burn you so fast your head's going to turn.<00:02:50.959><c> Well,</c><00:02:51.120><c> they're</c><00:02:51.360><c> going</c><00:02:51.440><c> to</c><00:02:51.519><c> say</c><00:02:51.920><c> like</c>

turn. Well, they're going to say like Claude<00:02:52.560><c> Reigns</c><00:02:52.879><c> in</c><00:02:53.120><c> Casablanca,</c><00:02:54.239><c> I'm</c><00:02:54.480><c> shocked</c> Claude Reigns in Casablanca, I'm shocked and<00:02:54.959><c> appalled</c><00:02:55.360><c> to</c><00:02:55.599><c> find</c><00:02:55.680><c> that</c><00:02:55.920><c> there's</c> and appalled to find that there's gambling<00:02:56.640><c> going</c><00:02:56.879><c> on</c><00:02:57.120><c> here</c><00:02:57.680><c> and</c><00:02:57.920><c> he's</c><00:02:58.239><c> going</c><00:02:58.319><c> to</c>

gambling going on here and he's going to be<00:02:58.560><c> left</c><00:02:58.800><c> high</c><00:02:59.040><c> and</c><00:02:59.280><c> dry.</c><00:03:00.000><c> Don't</c><00:03:00.400><c> ever</c><00:03:00.800><c> as</c> be left high and dry. Don't ever as someone<00:03:01.440><c> interfering</c><00:03:02.000><c> for</c><00:03:02.159><c> a</c><00:03:02.400><c> job</c><00:03:02.720><c> ever</c><00:03:03.120><c> do</c> someone interfering for a job ever do this<00:03:03.519><c> cuz</c><00:03:03.680><c> you're</c><00:03:03.840><c> going</c><00:03:03.920><c> to</c><00:03:04.000><c> be</c><00:03:04.159><c> screwed.</c>

this cuz you're going to be screwed. That<00:03:04.640><c> guy's</c><00:03:04.959><c> toast,</c><00:03:05.680><c> right?</c> That guy's toast, right? >> Yeah,<00:03:06.319><c> that</c><00:03:06.720><c> I</c><00:03:06.879><c> hadn't</c><00:03:07.120><c> thought</c><00:03:07.200><c> about</c><00:03:07.440><c> that's</c> >> Yeah, that I hadn't thought about that's You<00:03:07.920><c> think</c><00:03:08.080><c> you're</c><00:03:08.239><c> helping</c><00:03:08.480><c> your</c><00:03:08.720><c> company.</c>

You think you're helping your company. He's<00:03:09.360><c> already</c><00:03:09.519><c> lost</c><00:03:09.840><c> his</c><00:03:10.000><c> job.</c><00:03:10.560><c> Forget</c><00:03:10.879><c> what</c> He's already lost his job. Forget what his<00:03:11.120><c> comp</c><00:03:11.519><c> exit</c><00:03:11.920><c> package</c><00:03:12.239><c> is.</c><00:03:12.800><c> He</c><00:03:12.959><c> He's</c> his comp exit package is. He He's already<00:03:13.519><c> gone,</c><00:03:13.840><c> right?</c><00:03:14.000><c> you're</c><00:03:14.239><c> not</c><00:03:14.319><c> helping</c>

already gone, right? you're not helping your<00:03:14.800><c> company.</c> your company. >> Agreed.<00:03:16.080><c> So,</c><00:03:16.239><c> here's</c><00:03:16.800><c> And</c><00:03:16.959><c> then</c><00:03:17.120><c> the</c><00:03:17.360><c> next</c> >> Agreed. So, here's And then the next level<00:03:17.680><c> up</c><00:03:17.840><c> is</c><00:03:18.000><c> the</c><00:03:18.159><c> gentleman</c><00:03:18.400><c> you</c><00:03:18.640><c> mentioned,</c> level up is the gentleman you mentioned,

Tan<00:03:19.360><c> Tang,</c><00:03:19.680><c> who</c><00:03:19.920><c> is</c> Tan Tang, who is he<00:03:22.879><c> also</c><00:03:23.200><c> has</c><00:03:23.440><c> some</c><00:03:23.599><c> issues.</c><00:03:24.000><c> It's</c><00:03:24.159><c> not</c><00:03:24.319><c> as</c> he also has some issues. It's not as clear<00:03:24.879><c> because</c><00:03:25.120><c> there's</c><00:03:25.440><c> no</c><00:03:25.760><c> fact-based</c> clear because there's no fact-based evidence,<00:03:27.120><c> but</c><00:03:27.360><c> it's</c><00:03:27.599><c> not</c><00:03:27.680><c> just</c><00:03:27.840><c> hearsay</c><00:03:28.400><c> cuz</c>

evidence, but it's not just hearsay cuz a<00:03:28.800><c> bunch</c><00:03:28.879><c> of</c><00:03:29.040><c> folks</c><00:03:29.440><c> have</c><00:03:29.680><c> said,</c><00:03:30.239><c> you</c><00:03:30.400><c> know,</c><00:03:30.640><c> he</c> a bunch of folks have said, you know, he did<00:03:31.040><c> it.</c><00:03:31.280><c> He</c><00:03:31.440><c> encouraged</c><00:03:31.920><c> me</c><00:03:32.080><c> to</c><00:03:32.239><c> do</c><00:03:32.400><c> this.</c><00:03:33.040><c> And</c> did it. He encouraged me to do this. And

even<00:03:33.360><c> in</c><00:03:33.599><c> the</c><00:03:33.760><c> email</c><00:03:34.000><c> traffic</c><00:03:34.319><c> with</c><00:03:34.560><c> Changlu,</c> even in the email traffic with Changlu, there<00:03:35.280><c> was</c><00:03:35.360><c> a</c><00:03:35.440><c> lot</c><00:03:35.519><c> of,</c><00:03:35.760><c> hey,</c><00:03:35.920><c> we</c><00:03:36.159><c> were</c><00:03:36.239><c> asked</c> there was a lot of, hey, we were asked to<00:03:36.720><c> do</c><00:03:36.799><c> this.</c><00:03:37.519><c> So</c><00:03:37.760><c> the</c><00:03:37.920><c> risk</c><00:03:38.239><c> he's</c><00:03:38.480><c> up</c><00:03:38.720><c> against</c>

to do this. So the risk he's up against is<00:03:39.360><c> is</c><00:03:39.760><c> that</c><00:03:40.000><c> in</c><00:03:40.480><c> there's</c><00:03:40.720><c> now</c><00:03:40.959><c> going</c><00:03:41.040><c> to</c><00:03:41.200><c> be</c><00:03:41.360><c> a</c> is is that in there's now going to be a ton<00:03:41.840><c> of</c><00:03:42.080><c> deposition,</c><00:03:42.799><c> a</c><00:03:43.040><c> ton</c><00:03:43.200><c> of</c><00:03:43.440><c> discovery.</c> ton of deposition, a ton of discovery.

And<00:03:44.560><c> if</c><00:03:44.720><c> there's</c><00:03:44.959><c> any</c><00:03:45.200><c> smoking</c><00:03:45.599><c> gun</c><00:03:45.920><c> that</c><00:03:46.239><c> has</c> And if there's any smoking gun that has him<00:03:46.799><c> emailing</c><00:03:47.360><c> or</c><00:03:47.599><c> encouraging</c><00:03:48.159><c> people</c><00:03:48.480><c> to</c> him emailing or encouraging people to say,<00:03:48.879><c> "Hey,</c><00:03:49.280><c> bring</c><00:03:49.440><c> in</c><00:03:49.680><c> information</c><00:03:50.080><c> when</c>

say, "Hey, bring in information when you're<00:03:50.480><c> coming</c><00:03:50.640><c> in</c><00:03:50.799><c> for</c><00:03:50.959><c> your</c><00:03:51.120><c> next</c><00:03:51.360><c> interview</c> you're coming in for your next interview here<00:03:52.080><c> at</c><00:03:52.319><c> OpenAI,</c><00:03:53.440><c> then</c><00:03:53.760><c> he's</c><00:03:53.920><c> screwed,</c><00:03:54.159><c> too."</c> here at OpenAI, then he's screwed, too." And<00:03:54.480><c> the</c><00:03:54.640><c> same</c><00:03:54.799><c> thing</c><00:03:54.959><c> will</c><00:03:55.120><c> happen</c><00:03:55.840><c> cuz</c><00:03:56.239><c> you</c>

And the same thing will happen cuz you know,<00:03:56.640><c> now</c><00:03:56.959><c> you</c><00:03:57.120><c> get</c><00:03:57.200><c> to</c><00:03:57.280><c> the</c><00:03:57.439><c> highest</c><00:03:57.760><c> level.</c> know, now you get to the highest level. Look,<00:03:59.519><c> Apple</c><00:03:59.840><c> in</c><00:04:00.000><c> one</c><00:04:00.239><c> sense</c><00:04:00.400><c> is</c><00:04:00.640><c> quote</c> Look, Apple in one sense is quote unquote<00:04:01.280><c> happy</c><00:04:01.760><c> because</c><00:04:02.080><c> they're</c><00:04:02.400><c> really</c>

unquote happy because they're really pissed<00:04:03.040><c> that</c><00:04:03.360><c> 400</c><00:04:03.840><c> people</c><00:04:04.000><c> from</c><00:04:04.319><c> Apple</c><00:04:04.560><c> have</c> pissed that 400 people from Apple have gone<00:04:04.959><c> to</c><00:04:05.200><c> move</c><00:04:05.680><c> to</c><00:04:05.920><c> open</c><00:04:06.159><c> AI</c><00:04:06.640><c> and</c> gone to move to open AI and traditionally<00:04:07.360><c> over</c><00:04:07.519><c> the</c><00:04:07.680><c> years</c><00:04:08.000><c> Apple</c><00:04:08.239><c> has</c>

traditionally over the years Apple has always<00:04:08.799><c> hated</c><00:04:09.200><c> in</c><00:04:09.360><c> my</c><00:04:09.519><c> view,</c><00:04:10.319><c> you</c><00:04:10.560><c> know,</c> always hated in my view, you know, almost<00:04:11.120><c> to</c><00:04:11.280><c> the</c><00:04:11.439><c> point</c><00:04:11.599><c> of</c><00:04:11.840><c> not</c><00:04:12.000><c> being</c> almost to the point of not being appropriate,<00:04:12.959><c> people</c><00:04:13.360><c> leaving</c><00:04:13.680><c> their</c><00:04:13.920><c> place</c>

appropriate, people leaving their place and<00:04:14.319><c> going</c><00:04:14.480><c> to</c><00:04:14.640><c> someone</c><00:04:14.799><c> else</c><00:04:14.959><c> and</c><00:04:15.200><c> really</c> and going to someone else and really leaned<00:04:15.760><c> on</c><00:04:15.920><c> other</c><00:04:17.040><c> um</c><00:04:17.280><c> companies</c><00:04:17.840><c> to</c><00:04:18.160><c> not</c> leaned on other um companies to not hire,<00:04:19.040><c> right?</c><00:04:19.199><c> And</c><00:04:19.359><c> I</c><00:04:19.519><c> think</c><00:04:19.680><c> as</c><00:04:19.840><c> I</c><00:04:19.919><c> say</c><00:04:20.079><c> at</c>

hire, right? And I think as I say at some<00:04:20.320><c> point</c><00:04:20.479><c> that</c><00:04:20.639><c> gets</c><00:04:20.880><c> inappropriate</c><00:04:21.359><c> and</c> some point that gets inappropriate and see<00:04:21.680><c> this</c><00:04:21.919><c> whole</c><00:04:22.240><c> Steve</c><00:04:22.560><c> Jobs</c><00:04:23.040><c> kind</c><00:04:23.280><c> of</c><00:04:23.360><c> issue</c> see this whole Steve Jobs kind of issue 15<00:04:24.479><c> years</c><00:04:24.720><c> ago.</c><00:04:25.440><c> But</c><00:04:25.600><c> the</c><00:04:25.759><c> bottom</c><00:04:26.000><c> line</c><00:04:26.160><c> is</c>

15 years ago. But the bottom line is they're<00:04:26.639><c> not</c><00:04:26.800><c> looking</c><00:04:26.960><c> at</c><00:04:27.040><c> this</c><00:04:27.199><c> and</c><00:04:27.360><c> going</c> they're not looking at this and going you<00:04:27.759><c> know</c><00:04:27.840><c> the</c><00:04:28.000><c> way</c><00:04:28.080><c> when</c><00:04:28.240><c> you</c><00:04:28.400><c> want</c><00:04:28.479><c> to</c><00:04:28.639><c> get</c> you know the way when you want to get something<00:04:29.120><c> for</c><00:04:29.440><c> something</c><00:04:29.840><c> and</c><00:04:30.080><c> then</c><00:04:30.240><c> the</c>

something for something and then the other<00:04:30.560><c> guy</c><00:04:30.800><c> makes</c><00:04:30.960><c> a</c><00:04:31.120><c> footfall</c><00:04:32.080><c> and</c><00:04:32.320><c> they're</c> other guy makes a footfall and they're now<00:04:32.880><c> we</c><00:04:33.120><c> have</c><00:04:33.280><c> them.</c><00:04:33.840><c> So</c><00:04:34.000><c> they</c><00:04:34.320><c> know</c><00:04:34.479><c> they</c><00:04:34.800><c> have</c> now we have them. So they know they have the<00:04:35.440><c> junior</c><00:04:35.759><c> guy</c><00:04:36.320><c> they</c><00:04:36.720><c> probably</c><00:04:37.120><c> have</c><00:04:37.199><c> the</c><00:04:37.440><c> VP</c>

the junior guy they probably have the VP of<00:04:37.840><c> engineering</c><00:04:38.160><c> and</c><00:04:38.320><c> they're</c><00:04:38.479><c> going</c><00:04:38.560><c> to</c> of engineering and they're going to twist<00:04:38.960><c> the</c><00:04:39.120><c> knife</c><00:04:39.919><c> depot</c><00:04:40.400><c> everyone</c><00:04:40.800><c> and</c><00:04:41.120><c> see</c> twist the knife depot everyone and see how<00:04:41.360><c> high</c><00:04:41.600><c> up</c><00:04:41.759><c> it</c><00:04:41.919><c> goes.</c><00:04:42.479><c> They're</c><00:04:42.800><c> pissed</c><00:04:43.120><c> and</c>

how high up it goes. They're pissed and they've<00:04:43.520><c> got</c><00:04:43.680><c> leverage.</c><00:04:44.320><c> So,</c><00:04:44.560><c> it's</c><00:04:44.800><c> a</c><00:04:44.960><c> tough</c> they've got leverage. So, it's a tough place<00:04:45.440><c> to</c><00:04:45.680><c> be,</c><00:04:47.040><c> right?</c><00:04:47.440><c> Because</c><00:04:47.600><c> really</c><00:04:47.840><c> what</c> place to be, right? Because really what they<00:04:48.160><c> want</c><00:04:48.320><c> isn't</c><00:04:48.720><c> I</c><00:04:48.880><c> mean,</c><00:04:48.960><c> you</c><00:04:49.120><c> know,</c><00:04:49.360><c> they</c>

they want isn't I mean, you know, they care<00:04:49.840><c> about</c><00:04:50.000><c> these</c><00:04:50.240><c> secrets,</c><00:04:50.560><c> but</c><00:04:50.800><c> what</c> care about these secrets, but what they're<00:04:51.120><c> really</c><00:04:51.360><c> dealing</c><00:04:51.520><c> with</c><00:04:51.680><c> is,</c><00:04:51.919><c> you</c> they're really dealing with is, you know,<00:04:52.240><c> the</c><00:04:52.479><c> big</c><00:04:52.720><c> picture</c><00:04:53.040><c> comment</c><00:04:53.360><c> is</c>

know, the big picture comment is OpenAI's<00:04:54.400><c> been</c><00:04:54.560><c> talking</c><00:04:54.800><c> about</c><00:04:55.040><c> building</c><00:04:55.280><c> a</c> OpenAI's been talking about building a hardware<00:04:55.840><c> device.</c><00:04:56.560><c> That's</c><00:04:56.800><c> obviously</c><00:04:57.120><c> why</c> hardware device. That's obviously why they're<00:04:57.440><c> hiring</c><00:04:57.680><c> 400</c><00:04:58.080><c> people</c><00:04:58.240><c> from</c><00:04:58.400><c> Apple</c><00:04:59.199><c> and</c>

they're hiring 400 people from Apple and Apple's<00:05:00.000><c> pissed</c><00:05:00.320><c> and</c><00:05:00.479><c> now</c><00:05:00.639><c> they've</c><00:05:01.280><c> got</c><00:05:01.520><c> some</c> Apple's pissed and now they've got some leverage<00:05:02.000><c> and</c><00:05:02.240><c> they're</c><00:05:02.400><c> going</c><00:05:02.479><c> to</c><00:05:02.560><c> find</c><00:05:02.720><c> out</c> leverage and they're going to find out what's<00:05:03.040><c> going</c><00:05:03.199><c> on</c><00:05:03.360><c> here.</c>

what's going on here. >> Yeah.<00:05:04.639><c> You</c><00:05:04.720><c> know,</c><00:05:04.800><c> it's</c><00:05:05.040><c> a</c><00:05:05.120><c> tough</c><00:05:05.280><c> one</c><00:05:05.440><c> to</c> >> Yeah. You know, it's a tough one to Rory's<00:05:06.080><c> point.</c><00:05:07.199><c> We</c><00:05:07.440><c> all</c><00:05:07.600><c> have</c><00:05:07.919><c> history</c><00:05:08.320><c> in</c><00:05:08.560><c> our</c> Rory's point. We all have history in our in<00:05:09.120><c> our</c><00:05:09.919><c> operating</c><00:05:10.320><c> or</c><00:05:10.479><c> investing</c><00:05:10.880><c> experience</c>

in our operating or investing experience where<00:05:11.840><c> you</c><00:05:12.080><c> do</c><00:05:12.320><c> hire</c><00:05:12.639><c> folks</c><00:05:12.960><c> for</c><00:05:13.120><c> their</c><00:05:13.280><c> domain</c> where you do hire folks for their domain expertise<00:05:14.160><c> every</c><00:05:14.479><c> day,</c><00:05:14.800><c> right?</c><00:05:15.039><c> That's</c> expertise every day, right? That's employment<00:05:15.840><c> portability</c><00:05:16.800><c> and</c><00:05:17.039><c> where</c><00:05:17.280><c> the</c>

employment portability and where the line<00:05:17.759><c> is</c><00:05:18.000><c> for</c><00:05:18.240><c> train</c><00:05:18.639><c> trade</c><00:05:19.039><c> secrets,</c><00:05:19.759><c> it's</c><00:05:20.240><c> um</c> line is for train trade secrets, it's um it's<00:05:20.880><c> actually</c><00:05:21.120><c> somewhat</c><00:05:21.520><c> nuanced</c><00:05:22.160><c> not</c><00:05:22.320><c> only</c> it's actually somewhat nuanced not only in<00:05:22.639><c> the</c><00:05:22.800><c> law,</c><00:05:23.120><c> maybe</c><00:05:23.360><c> Rory</c><00:05:23.680><c> would</c><00:05:23.840><c> challenge</c>

in the law, maybe Rory would challenge me,<00:05:24.479><c> but</c><00:05:24.720><c> in</c><00:05:24.880><c> practice</c><00:05:25.280><c> because</c><00:05:25.440><c> not</c><00:05:25.680><c> everyone</c> me, but in practice because not everyone gets<00:05:26.240><c> sued,</c><00:05:26.800><c> right?</c><00:05:27.440><c> Um</c><00:05:27.840><c> people</c><00:05:28.080><c> are</c><00:05:28.240><c> stealing</c> gets sued, right? Um people are stealing trade<00:05:28.880><c> secrets</c><00:05:29.199><c> all</c><00:05:29.360><c> the</c><00:05:29.520><c> time.</c><00:05:29.680><c> They</c>

trade secrets all the time. They shouldn't<00:05:30.080><c> be,</c><00:05:30.320><c> right?</c><00:05:30.960><c> The</c><00:05:31.199><c> salesperson's</c> shouldn't be, right? The salesperson's got<00:05:32.000><c> to</c><00:05:32.080><c> be</c><00:05:32.240><c> careful</c><00:05:32.479><c> when</c><00:05:32.639><c> they</c><00:05:32.800><c> take</c><00:05:32.880><c> the</c> got to be careful when they take the rolodex.<00:05:33.600><c> Once</c><00:05:33.759><c> in</c><00:05:33.840><c> a</c><00:05:34.000><c> while</c><00:05:34.080><c> they</c><00:05:34.240><c> get</c><00:05:34.400><c> burned</c>

rolodex. Once in a while they get burned for<00:05:34.720><c> that.</c><00:05:34.880><c> Once</c><00:05:35.039><c> in</c><00:05:35.120><c> a</c><00:05:35.199><c> while,</c><00:05:35.360><c> a</c><00:05:35.520><c> sales</c><00:05:35.759><c> rep</c> for that. Once in a while, a sales rep actually,<00:05:36.880><c> they</c><00:05:37.120><c> lash</c><00:05:37.440><c> out</c><00:05:37.680><c> when</c><00:05:37.919><c> one</c><00:05:38.080><c> goes</c><00:05:38.320><c> to</c> actually, they lash out when one goes to

a<00:05:38.560><c> competitor</c><00:05:38.880><c> in</c><00:05:39.039><c> your</c><00:05:39.199><c> portfolio.</c><00:05:39.680><c> They</c><00:05:39.840><c> get</c> a competitor in your portfolio. They get sued<00:05:40.160><c> for</c><00:05:40.320><c> taking</c><00:05:40.560><c> their</c><00:05:40.720><c> their</c><00:05:41.039><c> actual</c> sued for taking their their actual Rolodex,<00:05:42.000><c> not</c><00:05:42.160><c> their</c><00:05:42.320><c> conceptual</c><00:05:42.800><c> one.</c><00:05:43.280><c> They</c>

Rolodex, not their conceptual one. They get<00:05:43.600><c> sued</c><00:05:43.919><c> for</c><00:05:44.160><c> downloading</c><00:05:44.960><c> uh</c><00:05:45.039><c> the</c><00:05:45.280><c> CRM</c><00:05:45.680><c> when</c> get sued for downloading uh the CRM when they<00:05:46.000><c> leave.</c><00:05:46.320><c> And</c><00:05:47.360><c> Jesus</c><00:05:47.759><c> Christ,</c><00:05:48.080><c> hacking</c> they leave. And Jesus Christ, hacking into<00:05:49.520><c> the</c><00:05:49.840><c> old</c><00:05:50.400><c> uh</c><00:05:50.880><c> I</c><00:05:51.199><c> folder</c><00:05:51.440><c> or</c><00:05:51.680><c> whatever</c><00:05:51.840><c> the</c>

into the old uh I folder or whatever the hell<00:05:52.160><c> he</c><00:05:52.320><c> did</c><00:05:52.479><c> to</c><00:05:52.720><c> take</c><00:05:52.960><c> documents</c><00:05:53.360><c> from</c><00:05:53.600><c> Apple</c> hell he did to take documents from Apple after<00:05:54.160><c> you</c><00:05:54.320><c> leave,</c><00:05:54.639><c> it</c><00:05:54.800><c> happens.</c><00:05:55.280><c> But</c><00:05:55.680><c> uh</c> after you leave, it happens. But uh >> um<00:05:57.039><c> that</c><00:05:57.360><c> that's</c><00:05:57.759><c> too</c><00:05:58.000><c> much,</c><00:05:58.400><c> right?</c><00:05:58.960><c> But</c>

>> um that that's too much, right? But still,<00:05:59.360><c> you</c><00:05:59.520><c> don't</c><00:05:59.680><c> always</c><00:05:59.840><c> get</c><00:06:00.000><c> sued.</c><00:06:00.400><c> And</c> still, you don't always get sued. And it's<00:06:00.720><c> tough.</c><00:06:00.960><c> But</c><00:06:01.199><c> if</c><00:06:01.360><c> we</c><00:06:01.440><c> can't</c><00:06:01.600><c> hire</c><00:06:01.919><c> domain</c> it's tough. But if we can't hire domain experts,<00:06:02.720><c> sometimes</c><00:06:03.120><c> we</c><00:06:03.280><c> we</c><00:06:03.360><c> we</c><00:06:03.919><c> can't</c><00:06:04.080><c> all</c>

experts, sometimes we we we can't all invent<00:06:04.720><c> LLMs</c><00:06:05.280><c> ourselves.</c><00:06:05.680><c> Sometimes</c><00:06:06.000><c> we</c><00:06:06.080><c> need</c> invent LLMs ourselves. Sometimes we need a<00:06:06.319><c> little</c><00:06:06.400><c> help.</c><00:06:06.560><c> I</c><00:06:06.720><c> think</c><00:06:07.600><c> Jason</c><00:06:07.919><c> you</c><00:06:08.000><c> exactly</c> a little help. I think Jason you exactly but<00:06:08.639><c> I</c><00:06:08.720><c> actually</c><00:06:08.960><c> think</c><00:06:09.120><c> it</c><00:06:09.440><c> actually</c><00:06:09.680><c> makes</c>

but I actually think it actually makes the<00:06:10.080><c> point</c><00:06:10.160><c> that</c><00:06:10.400><c> you</c><00:06:10.560><c> didn't</c><00:06:10.800><c> need</c><00:06:10.960><c> to</c><00:06:11.120><c> do</c> the point that you didn't need to do this because<00:06:13.120><c> stepping</c><00:06:13.520><c> back</c><00:06:14.160><c> California</c><00:06:14.720><c> is</c><00:06:14.960><c> one</c> because stepping back California is one of<00:06:15.120><c> the</c><00:06:15.280><c> most</c><00:06:15.440><c> liberal</c><00:06:15.840><c> places</c><00:06:16.080><c> in</c><00:06:16.319><c> the</c>

of the most liberal places in the country<00:06:16.639><c> in</c><00:06:16.800><c> terms</c><00:06:17.039><c> of</c><00:06:17.199><c> employment</c><00:06:17.840><c> right</c> country in terms of employment right which<00:06:18.479><c> is</c><00:06:18.720><c> you</c><00:06:18.800><c> know</c><00:06:18.880><c> there's</c><00:06:19.120><c> no</c> which is you know there's no non-competes<00:06:20.319><c> consulate</c><00:06:20.720><c> non</c><00:06:21.840><c> competes</c><00:06:22.240><c> are</c> non-competes consulate non competes are

typically<00:06:22.720><c> uninforceable</c><00:06:23.919><c> and</c><00:06:24.160><c> what</c><00:06:24.400><c> this</c> typically uninforceable and what this and<00:06:24.800><c> there's</c><00:06:25.039><c> this</c><00:06:25.360><c> doctrine</c><00:06:25.759><c> called</c> and there's this doctrine called inevitable<00:06:26.639><c> disclosure</c><00:06:27.520><c> right</c><00:06:27.919><c> which</c><00:06:28.080><c> is</c><00:06:28.319><c> if</c> inevitable disclosure right which is if you<00:06:28.720><c> acquire</c><00:06:29.280><c> knowledge</c><00:06:29.600><c> in</c><00:06:29.919><c> one</c><00:06:30.160><c> company</c><00:06:30.960><c> and</c>

you acquire knowledge in one company and you<00:06:31.440><c> go</c><00:06:31.520><c> to</c><00:06:31.759><c> another</c><00:06:32.160><c> company</c><00:06:32.720><c> and</c><00:06:32.960><c> you</c><00:06:33.199><c> use</c> you go to another company and you use that<00:06:33.759><c> knowledge</c><00:06:34.560><c> the</c><00:06:34.800><c> California</c><00:06:35.199><c> courts</c><00:06:35.520><c> are</c> that knowledge the California courts are pretty<00:06:35.840><c> friendly</c><00:06:36.080><c> and</c><00:06:36.319><c> they'll</c><00:06:36.479><c> say</c><00:06:36.720><c> it's</c>

pretty friendly and they'll say it's inevitable<00:06:37.520><c> cuz</c><00:06:37.759><c> it's</c><00:06:38.000><c> part</c><00:06:38.160><c> of</c><00:06:38.319><c> your</c><00:06:38.479><c> trade.</c> inevitable cuz it's part of your trade. So<00:06:39.280><c> they'll</c><00:06:39.600><c> even</c><00:06:39.919><c> say</c><00:06:40.800><c> you</c><00:06:41.440><c> we</c><00:06:41.680><c> can't</c><00:06:42.000><c> stop</c> So they'll even say you we can't stop you<00:06:42.560><c> using</c><00:06:42.800><c> the</c><00:06:42.960><c> tricks</c><00:06:43.199><c> you</c><00:06:43.360><c> learned</c><00:06:43.600><c> at</c>

you using the tricks you learned at company<00:06:44.000><c> A</c><00:06:44.240><c> at</c><00:06:44.479><c> company</c><00:06:44.800><c> B.</c><00:06:45.199><c> And</c><00:06:45.360><c> let</c><00:06:45.520><c> me</c><00:06:45.600><c> give</c> company A at company B. And let me give you<00:06:45.840><c> a</c><00:06:46.000><c> very</c><00:06:46.240><c> practical</c><00:06:46.720><c> example</c><00:06:47.039><c> of</c><00:06:47.280><c> that.</c> you a very practical example of that. >> Anthropic<00:06:49.520><c> is</c><00:06:49.759><c> the</c><00:06:50.000><c> biggest</c><00:06:50.319><c> beneficiary</c><00:06:51.440><c> of</c>

>> Anthropic is the biggest beneficiary of the<00:06:51.840><c> unability</c><00:06:52.319><c> to</c><00:06:52.479><c> enforce</c><00:06:52.800><c> non-competes</c> the unability to enforce non-competes and<00:06:53.520><c> the</c><00:06:53.680><c> doctrine</c><00:06:54.000><c> of</c><00:06:54.160><c> inevitable</c> and the doctrine of inevitable disclosure.<00:06:55.440><c> Cuz</c><00:06:55.680><c> those</c><00:06:56.000><c> seven</c><00:06:56.319><c> employees</c> disclosure. Cuz those seven employees

who<00:06:56.960><c> left,</c><00:06:57.360><c> they</c><00:06:57.600><c> basically</c><00:06:57.919><c> walked</c><00:06:58.160><c> out</c><00:06:58.319><c> of</c> who left, they basically walked out of them<00:06:58.639><c> because</c><00:06:58.800><c> they're</c><00:06:59.120><c> way</c><00:06:59.360><c> smarter</c><00:06:59.680><c> than</c> them because they're way smarter than this<00:07:00.000><c> guy.</c><00:07:00.240><c> They</c><00:07:00.479><c> probably</c><00:07:00.720><c> didn't</c><00:07:00.960><c> bring</c>

this guy. They probably didn't bring anything.<00:07:02.240><c> No</c><00:07:02.639><c> pieces</c><00:07:02.960><c> of</c><00:07:03.199><c> paper,</c><00:07:03.759><c> no</c><00:07:04.080><c> stolen</c> anything. No pieces of paper, no stolen code.<00:07:05.440><c> But</c><00:07:05.680><c> next</c><00:07:05.919><c> morning</c><00:07:06.319><c> they</c><00:07:06.560><c> start</c><00:07:06.800><c> up</c><00:07:06.960><c> and</c> code. But next morning they start up and they<00:07:07.280><c> say,</c><00:07:07.440><c> "We</c><00:07:07.680><c> just</c><00:07:07.919><c> were</c><00:07:08.080><c> thinking</c><00:07:08.319><c> about</c>

they say, "We just were thinking about this<00:07:08.800><c> last</c><00:07:09.120><c> week</c><00:07:09.599><c> and</c><00:07:09.840><c> we</c><00:07:10.000><c> can</c><00:07:10.160><c> keep</c><00:07:10.479><c> thinking</c> this last week and we can keep thinking about<00:07:10.960><c> this</c><00:07:11.360><c> and</c><00:07:11.680><c> everything</c><00:07:12.000><c> in</c><00:07:12.240><c> our</c><00:07:12.479><c> brain</c> about this and everything in our brain is<00:07:12.960><c> owned</c><00:07:13.199><c> by</c><00:07:13.360><c> us."</c><00:07:14.080><c> And</c><00:07:14.240><c> there's</c><00:07:14.479><c> lots</c><00:07:14.720><c> of</c>

is owned by us." And there's lots of states<00:07:15.120><c> in</c><00:07:15.280><c> the</c><00:07:15.360><c> union</c><00:07:15.599><c> where</c><00:07:15.840><c> you</c><00:07:16.080><c> can't</c><00:07:16.240><c> do</c> states in the union where you can't do that. >> I<00:07:16.880><c> wonder</c><00:07:17.039><c> if</c><00:07:17.120><c> Anthropa</c><00:07:17.680><c> could</c><00:07:17.759><c> have</c><00:07:17.919><c> been</c> >> I wonder if Anthropa could have been started<00:07:18.240><c> in</c><00:07:18.400><c> Massachusetts.</c><00:07:19.120><c> Probably</c><00:07:19.280><c> not.</c>

started in Massachusetts. Probably not. >> No,<00:07:20.639><c> you're</c><00:07:20.880><c> exactly</c><00:07:21.120><c> right.</c><00:07:21.280><c> Which</c><00:07:21.440><c> and</c><00:07:21.599><c> I</c> >> No, you're exactly right. Which and I think<00:07:21.919><c> California's</c><00:07:22.560><c> even</c><00:07:22.800><c> though</c><00:07:22.960><c> it</c><00:07:23.120><c> sucks</c> think California's even though it sucks as<00:07:23.599><c> the</c><00:07:23.759><c> employer,</c><00:07:24.400><c> I</c><00:07:24.639><c> think</c><00:07:24.800><c> California's</c>

as the employer, I think California's been<00:07:25.599><c> right,</c><00:07:26.240><c> oddly</c><00:07:26.639><c> enough,</c><00:07:26.960><c> the</c><00:07:27.199><c> rare</c> been right, oddly enough, the rare policy<00:07:27.919><c> triumph</c><00:07:28.319><c> for</c><00:07:28.479><c> the</c><00:07:28.639><c> great</c><00:07:28.800><c> state</c><00:07:28.960><c> of</c> policy triumph for the great state of California,<00:07:30.080><c> it's</c><00:07:30.319><c> been</c><00:07:30.479><c> really</c><00:07:30.800><c> good</c><00:07:30.960><c> for</c>

California, it's been really good for innovation<00:07:31.599><c> in</c><00:07:31.840><c> the</c><00:07:31.919><c> Bay</c><00:07:32.080><c> Area.</c><00:07:32.639><c> Right.</c><00:07:32.960><c> So</c> innovation in the Bay Area. Right. So you<00:07:33.440><c> already</c><00:07:33.759><c> have</c><00:07:34.000><c> that</c><00:07:34.240><c> very</c><00:07:34.479><c> friendly</c> you already have that very friendly employee<00:07:35.680><c> thing,</c><00:07:36.240><c> right?</c><00:07:36.479><c> And</c><00:07:36.720><c> given</c><00:07:36.960><c> to</c>

employee thing, right? And given to Jason's<00:07:37.520><c> point,</c><00:07:37.759><c> given</c><00:07:38.080><c> you</c><00:07:38.240><c> have</c><00:07:38.400><c> that,</c> Jason's point, given you have that, given<00:07:39.520><c> you</c><00:07:39.680><c> have</c><00:07:39.759><c> that</c><00:07:40.000><c> inevit,</c><00:07:40.639><c> why</c><00:07:41.360><c> put</c> given you have that inevit, why put yourself<00:07:41.840><c> at</c><00:07:42.000><c> risk</c><00:07:42.240><c> by</c><00:07:42.479><c> stealing</c><00:07:42.880><c> some</c><00:07:43.039><c> [ __ ]</c>

yourself at risk by stealing some [ __ ] that<00:07:43.440><c> you</c><00:07:43.520><c> just</c><00:07:43.680><c> don't</c><00:07:43.840><c> need?</c><00:07:44.400><c> Sorry,</c><00:07:44.639><c> how</c><00:07:44.800><c> are</c> that you just don't need? Sorry, how are you<00:07:44.960><c> going</c><00:07:45.039><c> to</c><00:07:45.120><c> set</c><00:07:45.280><c> up?</c> you going to set up? >> Well,<00:07:45.919><c> my</c><00:07:46.160><c> question</c><00:07:46.400><c> was,</c><00:07:46.800><c> okay,</c><00:07:47.120><c> so</c><00:07:47.280><c> these</c>

>> Well, my question was, okay, so these individuals<00:07:48.080><c> are</c><00:07:48.400><c> screwed.</c><00:07:49.120><c> Um,</c><00:07:49.759><c> to</c><00:07:50.000><c> be</c> individuals are screwed. Um, to be blunt,<00:07:50.880><c> what</c><00:07:51.039><c> does</c><00:07:51.199><c> it</c><00:07:51.360><c> mean</c><00:07:51.599><c> in</c><00:07:51.840><c> terms</c><00:07:52.000><c> of</c> blunt, what does it mean in terms of timeline<00:07:52.720><c> for</c><00:07:52.960><c> Open</c><00:07:53.280><c> AI?</c><00:07:53.919><c> Does</c><00:07:54.080><c> it</c><00:07:54.240><c> cause</c>

timeline for Open AI? Does it cause meaningful<00:07:55.039><c> delays?</c><00:07:56.000><c> Does</c><00:07:56.240><c> it</c><00:07:56.479><c> impact</c><00:07:56.879><c> their</c> meaningful delays? Does it impact their ability<00:07:57.440><c> to</c><00:07:57.680><c> ship</c><00:07:57.919><c> their</c><00:07:58.080><c> hardware</c><00:07:58.639><c> product</c> ability to ship their hardware product when<00:07:59.440><c> they</c><00:07:59.599><c> wanted</c><00:07:59.919><c> to?</c><00:08:00.639><c> Listen,</c><00:08:01.039><c> if</c><00:08:01.199><c> I</c><00:08:01.360><c> had</c><00:08:01.440><c> to</c>

when they wanted to? Listen, if I had to breathe<00:08:01.919><c> the</c><00:08:02.080><c> tea</c><00:08:02.319><c> leaves,</c><00:08:02.879><c> hardware</c><00:08:03.199><c> is</c> breathe the tea leaves, hardware is probably<00:08:03.680><c> on</c><00:08:03.840><c> the</c><00:08:04.000><c> bubble.</c><00:08:04.400><c> This</c><00:08:04.560><c> was</c><00:08:04.720><c> one</c><00:08:04.879><c> of</c> probably on the bubble. This was one of Sam's<00:08:05.360><c> initiatives</c><00:08:05.680><c> that</c><00:08:05.919><c> made</c><00:08:06.160><c> sense</c><00:08:06.400><c> when</c>

Sam's initiatives that made sense when everything<00:08:07.520><c> was</c><00:08:07.840><c> working</c><00:08:08.080><c> and</c><00:08:08.319><c> OpenAI</c><00:08:09.039><c> had</c><00:08:09.440><c> an</c> everything was working and OpenAI had an unassalable<00:08:10.560><c> lead</c><00:08:11.039><c> over</c><00:08:11.360><c> over</c><00:08:11.680><c> its</c> unassalable lead over over its competitors.<00:08:12.560><c> Right</c><00:08:13.360><c> now</c><00:08:13.840><c> everything's,</c><00:08:14.639><c> you</c>

competitors. Right now everything's, you know,<00:08:14.879><c> we</c><00:08:15.120><c> chopped</c><00:08:15.440><c> Sora.</c><00:08:15.919><c> Why</c><00:08:16.080><c> the</c><00:08:16.240><c> hell</c><00:08:16.400><c> did</c> know, we chopped Sora. Why the hell did we<00:08:16.720><c> buy</c><00:08:16.879><c> TBPN</c><00:08:17.599><c> as</c><00:08:17.759><c> great</c><00:08:17.840><c> as</c><00:08:18.000><c> it</c><00:08:18.160><c> seemed</c><00:08:18.560><c> six</c> we buy TBPN as great as it seemed six

months<00:08:18.960><c> ago?</c><00:08:19.360><c> Right.</c><00:08:19.919><c> Um</c><00:08:20.400><c> hardware</c><00:08:21.360><c> seemed</c> months ago? Right. Um hardware seemed like<00:08:21.759><c> a</c><00:08:21.919><c> great</c><00:08:22.080><c> deal</c><00:08:22.240><c> for</c><00:08:22.560><c> six</c><00:08:22.720><c> billion</c><00:08:22.960><c> when</c><00:08:23.199><c> I</c> like a great deal for six billion when I could<00:08:23.440><c> get</c><00:08:23.520><c> the</c><00:08:23.680><c> legendary</c><00:08:24.240><c> Johnny</c><00:08:24.560><c> IV,</c><00:08:25.280><c> but</c>

could get the legendary Johnny IV, but he<00:08:25.919><c> his</c><00:08:26.080><c> team</c><00:08:26.400><c> stole</c><00:08:26.800><c> everything.</c><00:08:27.199><c> What's</c><00:08:27.440><c> the</c> he his team stole everything. What's the point<00:08:27.680><c> of</c><00:08:27.919><c> like</c><00:08:28.080><c> this</c><00:08:28.240><c> is</c><00:08:28.400><c> just</c><00:08:28.479><c> an</c><00:08:28.639><c> effing</c> point of like this is just an effing distraction<00:08:30.080><c> for</c><00:08:30.400><c> something</c><00:08:30.720><c> that's</c><00:08:31.120><c> going</c>

distraction for something that's going to<00:08:31.360><c> he</c><00:08:31.680><c> it's</c><00:08:31.919><c> going</c><00:08:32.000><c> to</c><00:08:32.080><c> hemorrhage</c><00:08:32.479><c> cash.</c> to he it's going to hemorrhage cash. >> I'm<00:08:34.320><c> all</c><00:08:34.399><c> in.</c><00:08:34.959><c> If</c><00:08:35.200><c> we</c><00:08:35.279><c> go</c><00:08:35.440><c> back</c><00:08:35.599><c> 60</c><00:08:35.919><c> weeks</c><00:08:36.080><c> ago,</c> >> I'm all in. If we go back 60 weeks ago,

I'm<00:08:36.800><c> all</c><00:08:36.959><c> in</c><00:08:37.200><c> on</c><00:08:37.839><c> persistent</c><00:08:38.560><c> AI</c><00:08:38.959><c> around</c><00:08:39.200><c> us.</c> I'm all in on persistent AI around us. So,<00:08:39.599><c> Zuck,</c><00:08:40.000><c> like</c><00:08:40.159><c> with</c><00:08:40.320><c> his</c><00:08:40.560><c> new</c><00:08:40.719><c> eyewear</c><00:08:41.200><c> and</c> So, Zuck, like with his new eyewear and all<00:08:41.519><c> that,</c><00:08:41.839><c> but</c><00:08:42.399><c> this</c><00:08:42.560><c> has</c><00:08:42.719><c> got</c><00:08:42.880><c> to</c><00:08:43.039><c> be</c><00:08:43.120><c> almost</c>

all that, but this has got to be almost on<00:08:43.599><c> the</c><00:08:43.680><c> cutting</c><00:08:43.919><c> board.</c><00:08:44.159><c> It's</c><00:08:44.320><c> like</c><00:08:44.399><c> the</c> on the cutting board. It's like the Apple<00:08:44.800><c> car.</c><00:08:45.120><c> It's</c><00:08:45.279><c> got</c><00:08:45.360><c> to</c><00:08:45.519><c> be</c><00:08:45.680><c> close</c><00:08:45.920><c> to</c><00:08:46.080><c> being</c> Apple car. It's got to be close to being cut.<00:08:46.640><c> And</c><00:08:47.040><c> I</c><00:08:47.360><c> think</c><00:08:47.440><c> the</c><00:08:47.680><c> reason</c><00:08:47.760><c> this</c><00:08:48.000><c> lawsuit</c>

cut. And I think the reason this lawsuit may<00:08:48.720><c> have</c><00:08:48.880><c> happened</c><00:08:49.440><c> is</c><00:08:49.600><c> to</c><00:08:49.839><c> push</c><00:08:50.000><c> it</c><00:08:50.160><c> over</c><00:08:50.320><c> the</c> may have happened is to push it over the line<00:08:50.640><c> of</c><00:08:50.800><c> getting</c><00:08:51.040><c> cut.</c><00:08:51.440><c> Just</c><00:08:51.760><c> kill</c><00:08:51.920><c> it,</c><00:08:52.240><c> guys.</c> line of getting cut. Just kill it, guys.

like<00:08:53.040><c> it's</c><00:08:53.360><c> not</c><00:08:53.600><c> directly</c><00:08:54.080><c> cause</c><00:08:54.320><c> and</c><00:08:54.480><c> effect,</c> like it's not directly cause and effect, but<00:08:54.959><c> it</c><00:08:55.120><c> really</c><00:08:55.279><c> could</c><00:08:55.519><c> push</c><00:08:55.680><c> it</c><00:08:55.839><c> over</c><00:08:56.000><c> the</c> but it really could push it over the line<00:08:56.320><c> to</c><00:08:56.560><c> just</c><00:08:56.720><c> let's</c><00:08:56.959><c> let's</c><00:08:57.200><c> put</c><00:08:57.600><c> let's</c><00:08:57.839><c> put</c><00:08:58.000><c> a</c>

line to just let's let's put let's put a pause<00:08:58.399><c> on</c><00:08:58.560><c> this</c><00:08:58.720><c> for</c><00:08:58.800><c> a</c><00:08:58.959><c> year,</c><00:08:59.120><c> boys.</c><00:08:59.440><c> Let's</c> pause on this for a year, boys. Let's put<00:08:59.680><c> a</c><00:08:59.839><c> pause</c><00:09:00.000><c> on</c><00:09:00.080><c> it</c><00:09:00.240><c> for</c><00:09:00.399><c> a</c><00:09:00.480><c> year.</c><00:09:01.036><c> [snorts]</c> put a pause on it for a year. [snorts]

>> I<00:09:01.120><c> I</c><00:09:01.200><c> I</c><00:09:01.680><c> didn't</c><00:09:01.839><c> pile</c><00:09:02.080><c> in</c><00:09:02.240><c> on</c><00:09:02.480><c> that</c><00:09:02.640><c> initially</c> >> I I I didn't pile in on that initially because<00:09:03.200><c> I</c><00:09:03.360><c> feel</c><00:09:03.519><c> I</c><00:09:03.680><c> pile</c><00:09:03.920><c> in</c><00:09:04.080><c> on</c><00:09:04.160><c> this</c><00:09:04.320><c> point,</c> because I feel I pile in on this point,

but<00:09:04.640><c> I</c><00:09:04.800><c> totally</c><00:09:04.959><c> agree.</c><00:09:05.200><c> I</c><00:09:05.279><c> remember</c><00:09:05.440><c> when</c> but I totally agree. I remember when they<00:09:05.760><c> did</c><00:09:05.839><c> the</c><00:09:05.920><c> individual</c><00:09:06.399><c> deal,</c><00:09:06.560><c> I</c><00:09:06.720><c> was</c> they did the individual deal, I was like,<00:09:06.959><c> this</c><00:09:07.120><c> is</c><00:09:07.279><c> stupid.</c><00:09:08.000><c> I</c><00:09:08.640><c> the</c><00:09:09.360><c> the</c><00:09:09.760><c> only</c>

like, this is stupid. I the the only sometimes,<00:09:11.040><c> you</c><00:09:11.200><c> know,</c><00:09:11.519><c> the</c><00:09:11.600><c> the</c><00:09:11.760><c> cliche</c><00:09:12.240><c> keep</c> sometimes, you know, the the cliche keep the<00:09:12.560><c> main</c><00:09:12.720><c> thing</c><00:09:12.959><c> the</c><00:09:13.120><c> main</c><00:09:13.360><c> thing.</c><00:09:13.920><c> The</c><00:09:14.160><c> main</c> the main thing the main thing. The main thing<00:09:14.640><c> here</c><00:09:15.040><c> is</c><00:09:15.279><c> is</c><00:09:15.600><c> that</c><00:09:15.839><c> LLMs</c><00:09:16.480><c> are</c><00:09:16.640><c> really</c>

thing here is is that LLMs are really amazing<00:09:17.200><c> at</c><00:09:17.440><c> code</c><00:09:17.760><c> and</c><00:09:17.920><c> the</c><00:09:18.160><c> amount</c><00:09:18.320><c> of</c> amazing at code and the amount of economic<00:09:18.959><c> value</c><00:09:19.200><c> that</c><00:09:19.519><c> can</c><00:09:19.680><c> be</c><00:09:19.839><c> created</c><00:09:20.160><c> from</c> economic value that can be created from that<00:09:20.560><c> dwarfs</c><00:09:21.120><c> everything</c><00:09:21.440><c> else.</c><00:09:22.160><c> Right?</c><00:09:22.560><c> I've</c>

that dwarfs everything else. Right? I've seen<00:09:23.040><c> some</c><00:09:23.120><c> of</c><00:09:23.200><c> the</c><00:09:23.360><c> columnist</c><00:09:23.760><c> Ben</c><00:09:24.000><c> Thompson</c> seen some of the columnist Ben Thompson even<00:09:24.640><c> articulate</c><00:09:25.040><c> the</c><00:09:25.279><c> view</c><00:09:25.360><c> that</c><00:09:25.680><c> I</c><00:09:26.000><c> was</c><00:09:26.160><c> Ben</c> even articulate the view that I was Ben that<00:09:27.360><c> to</c><00:09:27.600><c> some</c><00:09:27.760><c> extent</c><00:09:28.000><c> it</c><00:09:28.160><c> may</c><00:09:28.240><c> have</c><00:09:28.320><c> been</c><00:09:28.480><c> a</c>

that to some extent it may have been a distraction<00:09:29.120><c> for</c><00:09:29.440><c> open</c><00:09:29.680><c> AI</c><00:09:29.920><c> that</c><00:09:30.080><c> they</c><00:09:30.240><c> were</c> distraction for open AI that they were so<00:09:30.640><c> successful</c><00:09:30.959><c> in</c><00:09:31.200><c> consumer</c><00:09:32.240><c> right</c><00:09:32.959><c> and</c> so successful in consumer right and because<00:09:34.480><c> where</c><00:09:34.800><c> the</c><00:09:35.040><c> value</c><00:09:35.440><c> all</c><00:09:35.680><c> clearly</c><00:09:36.000><c> been</c>

because where the value all clearly been created<00:09:36.720><c> is</c><00:09:37.120><c> not</c><00:09:37.279><c> just</c><00:09:37.440><c> within</c><00:09:37.760><c> enterprise</c> created is not just within enterprise but<00:09:38.320><c> within</c><00:09:38.640><c> enterprise</c><00:09:39.040><c> for</c><00:09:39.200><c> coding</c><00:09:39.600><c> and</c><00:09:39.839><c> I'm</c> but within enterprise for coding and I'm with<00:09:40.160><c> you</c><00:09:40.399><c> Jason</c><00:09:41.519><c> if</c><00:09:41.760><c> this</c><00:09:41.920><c> was</c><00:09:42.000><c> a</c><00:09:42.160><c> mercy</c>

with you Jason if this was a mercy killing<00:09:43.040><c> Apple</c><00:09:43.360><c> may</c><00:09:43.519><c> have</c><00:09:43.680><c> done</c><00:09:43.760><c> him</c><00:09:43.920><c> a</c><00:09:44.160><c> favor</c> killing Apple may have done him a favor you<00:09:45.360><c> know</c><00:09:45.519><c> move</c><00:09:45.760><c> on</c><00:09:46.640><c> slow</c><00:09:46.959><c> it</c><00:09:47.120><c> down</c><00:09:48.000><c> stop</c><00:09:48.320><c> doing</c> you know move on slow it down stop doing

this<00:09:48.800><c> [ __ ]</c> this [ __ ] >> and<00:09:50.399><c> Roy</c><00:09:50.640><c> when</c><00:09:50.800><c> when</c><00:09:50.959><c> you</c> >> and Roy when when you >> and<00:09:51.680><c> just</c><00:09:51.760><c> to</c><00:09:51.920><c> your</c><00:09:52.160><c> point.</c><00:09:52.399><c> If</c><00:09:52.640><c> you</c><00:09:52.800><c> think</c> >> and just to your point. If you think about<00:09:53.200><c> when</c><00:09:53.600><c> a</c><00:09:53.839><c> year</c><00:09:54.000><c> ago</c><00:09:54.320><c> when</c><00:09:54.560><c> OpenAI</c><00:09:55.200><c> was</c><00:09:55.360><c> a</c>

about when a year ago when OpenAI was a consumer<00:09:55.920><c> company,</c><00:09:56.640><c> I</c><00:09:56.800><c> know</c><00:09:56.880><c> you</c><00:09:57.040><c> thought</c><00:09:57.120><c> it</c> consumer company, I know you thought it didn't<00:09:57.519><c> make</c><00:09:57.600><c> sense,</c><00:09:57.760><c> but</c><00:09:58.000><c> step</c><00:09:58.160><c> back.</c><00:09:58.399><c> It</c> didn't make sense, but step back. It actually<00:09:58.800><c> all</c><00:09:58.959><c> makes</c><00:09:59.200><c> sense.</c><00:09:59.360><c> If</c><00:09:59.519><c> you're</c><00:09:59.680><c> a</c>

actually all makes sense. If you're a consumer<00:10:00.160><c> company,</c><00:10:00.480><c> should</c><00:10:00.640><c> we</c><00:10:00.720><c> go</c><00:10:00.880><c> into</c> consumer company, should we go into hardware?<00:10:01.519><c> At</c><00:10:01.680><c> some</c><00:10:01.839><c> point,</c><00:10:02.000><c> you</c><00:10:02.160><c> do</c><00:10:02.480><c> you</c> hardware? At some point, you do you think<00:10:02.800><c> about</c><00:10:02.880><c> it.</c><00:10:03.440><c> Should</c><00:10:03.600><c> we</c><00:10:03.760><c> go</c><00:10:03.920><c> into</c><00:10:04.240><c> media</c>

think about it. Should we go into media as<00:10:04.800><c> a</c><00:10:05.040><c> consumer</c><00:10:05.440><c> company?</c><00:10:06.000><c> Yeah.</c><00:10:06.399><c> I</c><00:10:06.560><c> mean,</c><00:10:06.640><c> we</c> as a consumer company? Yeah. I mean, we could<00:10:06.959><c> buy</c><00:10:07.200><c> the</c><00:10:07.360><c> a</c><00:10:07.680><c> top</c><00:10:08.480><c> podcast</c><00:10:09.040><c> with</c><00:10:09.200><c> a</c><00:10:09.360><c> mill</c> could buy the a top podcast with a mill

for<00:10:09.839><c> forund</c><00:10:10.720><c> something</c><00:10:11.040><c> million.</c><00:10:11.519><c> Like</c><00:10:11.920><c> worst</c> for forund something million. Like worst case,<00:10:12.480><c> it</c><00:10:12.720><c> doesn't</c><00:10:12.959><c> work.</c><00:10:13.200><c> Like</c><00:10:13.440><c> if</c><00:10:13.600><c> you're</c><00:10:13.680><c> a</c> case, it doesn't work. Like if you're a pure<00:10:14.160><c> consumer</c><00:10:14.800><c> play,</c><00:10:15.760><c> this</c><00:10:15.920><c> is</c><00:10:16.000><c> how</c><00:10:16.160><c> you</c><00:10:16.320><c> keep</c>

pure consumer play, this is how you keep building.<00:10:16.880><c> You</c><00:10:17.040><c> add</c><00:10:17.120><c> to</c><00:10:17.279><c> this</c><00:10:17.440><c> you</c><00:10:17.600><c> add</c><00:10:17.760><c> to</c><00:10:17.920><c> the</c> building. You add to this you add to the layers<00:10:18.240><c> of</c><00:10:18.320><c> the</c><00:10:18.480><c> concentric</c><00:10:18.959><c> circle,</c><00:10:19.279><c> right?</c> layers of the concentric circle, right? is<00:10:19.680><c> a</c><00:10:20.240><c> enterprise</c>

is a enterprise death<00:10:22.480><c> death</c><00:10:23.120><c> march</c><00:10:23.600><c> LLM.</c><00:10:24.959><c> It</c><00:10:25.200><c> makes</c><00:10:25.360><c> no</c> death death march LLM. It makes no sense.<00:10:25.760><c> It's</c><00:10:26.000><c> baffling,</c><00:10:26.560><c> right?</c><00:10:27.497><c> [snorts]</c> sense. It's baffling, right? [snorts] Let<00:10:28.160><c> someone</c><00:10:28.399><c> else</c><00:10:28.640><c> build</c><00:10:28.800><c> the</c><00:10:28.959><c> pin</c><00:10:29.200><c> the</c><00:10:29.440><c> pin</c>

Let someone else build the pin the pin that<00:10:29.920><c> clips</c><00:10:30.240><c> to</c><00:10:30.399><c> your</c><00:10:30.560><c> shirt.</c> that clips to your shirt. >> You<00:10:32.160><c> mentioned</c><00:10:32.800><c> that</c><00:10:33.040><c> one.</c> >> You mentioned that one. >> You<00:10:34.480><c> mentioned</c><00:10:34.800><c> Zuck.</c><00:10:35.440><c> Zuck</c><00:10:36.079><c> returns</c><00:10:36.560><c> to</c><00:10:36.880><c> X</c> >> You mentioned Zuck. Zuck returns to X

and<00:10:37.760><c> he</c><00:10:38.000><c> returns</c><00:10:38.399><c> to</c><00:10:38.640><c> X</c><00:10:39.279><c> for</c><00:10:39.600><c> Muse</c><00:10:40.079><c> Spark</c><00:10:40.640><c> 1.1</c> and he returns to X for Muse Spark 1.1 and<00:10:42.240><c> the</c><00:10:42.480><c> first</c><00:10:42.640><c> time</c><00:10:42.959><c> ever</c><00:10:43.440><c> that</c><00:10:43.760><c> Meta</c><00:10:44.160><c> start</c> and the first time ever that Meta start charging<00:10:44.880><c> developers</c><00:10:45.360><c> to</c><00:10:45.600><c> use</c><00:10:45.760><c> their</c><00:10:46.000><c> own</c>

charging developers to use their own models.<00:10:47.040><c> Um</c> models. Um it<00:10:49.680><c> was</c><00:10:49.760><c> a</c><00:10:50.000><c> very</c><00:10:50.240><c> meaningful</c><00:10:50.800><c> release.</c><00:10:51.279><c> Some</c> it was a very meaningful release. Some people<00:10:51.920><c> think</c><00:10:52.560><c> uh</c><00:10:52.720><c> Alexander</c><00:10:53.279><c> Wang</c><00:10:53.600><c> called</c> people think uh Alexander Wang called the<00:10:54.079><c> pricing</c><00:10:54.480><c> of</c><00:10:54.640><c> it</c><00:10:54.800><c> in</c><00:10:55.040><c> particular</c><00:10:55.519><c> very</c>

the pricing of it in particular very aggressive<00:10:56.399><c> versus</c><00:10:57.040><c> open</c><00:10:57.360><c> AAI</c><00:10:57.600><c> anthropic.</c><00:10:58.880><c> Um</c> aggressive versus open AAI anthropic. Um as<00:10:59.920><c> I</c><00:11:00.079><c> said</c><00:11:00.320><c> Zuck</c><00:11:00.720><c> broke</c><00:11:00.880><c> a</c><00:11:01.040><c> threeyear</c><00:11:01.519><c> silence</c> as I said Zuck broke a threeyear silence on<00:11:02.240><c> X</c><00:11:02.480><c> to</c><00:11:02.720><c> launch</c><00:11:02.959><c> it.</c><00:11:04.240><c> How</c><00:11:04.399><c> did</c><00:11:04.560><c> we</c><00:11:04.720><c> think</c>

on X to launch it. How did we think about<00:11:05.040><c> the</c><00:11:05.279><c> release</c><00:11:05.519><c> of</c><00:11:05.680><c> Spark</c><00:11:06.079><c> and</c><00:11:06.320><c> was</c><00:11:06.480><c> it</c><00:11:06.640><c> a</c> about the release of Spark and was it a meaningful<00:11:07.440><c> progression</c><00:11:08.000><c> for</c><00:11:08.240><c> Meta</c><00:11:08.720><c> in</c><00:11:08.880><c> the</c> meaningful progression for Meta in the fight<00:11:09.279><c> against</c><00:11:09.600><c> open</c><00:11:09.839><c> AI</c><00:11:10.160><c> and</c><00:11:10.320><c> anthropic?</c>

fight against open AI and anthropic? >> Yes.<00:11:12.560><c> And</c><00:11:12.800><c> I'd</c><00:11:12.959><c> like</c><00:11:13.120><c> to</c><00:11:13.200><c> come</c><00:11:13.360><c> back</c><00:11:13.519><c> to</c><00:11:13.680><c> the</c> >> Yes. And I'd like to come back to the how<00:11:14.480><c> it's</c><00:11:14.720><c> actually</c><00:11:15.040><c> let's</c><00:11:15.279><c> do</c><00:11:15.440><c> on</c><00:11:15.519><c> a</c><00:11:15.680><c> tangent</c> how it's actually let's do on a tangent

first.<00:11:16.560><c> I</c><00:11:16.800><c> wonder</c><00:11:17.040><c> what</c><00:11:17.279><c> the</c><00:11:17.440><c> internal</c><00:11:18.480><c> Zuck</c> first. I wonder what the internal Zuck algorithm<00:11:19.600><c> was,</c><00:11:20.320><c> which</c><00:11:20.640><c> is</c><00:11:21.200><c> how</c><00:11:21.519><c> good</c><00:11:21.760><c> does</c> algorithm was, which is how good does something<00:11:22.320><c> have</c><00:11:22.560><c> to</c><00:11:22.720><c> be</c><00:11:22.959><c> before</c><00:11:23.279><c> I</c><00:11:23.920><c> spitting</c>

something have to be before I spitting and<00:11:25.040><c> cursing</c><00:11:25.920><c> put</c><00:11:26.160><c> something</c><00:11:26.560><c> on</c><00:11:26.800><c> the</c> and cursing put something on the competitor<00:11:27.680><c> social</c><00:11:28.000><c> media</c><00:11:28.399><c> product.</c><00:11:29.040><c> I</c><00:11:29.200><c> mean,</c> competitor social media product. I mean, you<00:11:29.519><c> know,</c><00:11:29.680><c> maybe</c><00:11:29.920><c> the</c><00:11:30.079><c> comm's</c><00:11:30.480><c> person</c><00:11:30.800><c> goes</c>

you know, maybe the comm's person goes in<00:11:31.200><c> and</c><00:11:31.440><c> says,</c><00:11:31.600><c> "I</c><00:11:31.839><c> think</c><00:11:31.920><c> the</c><00:11:32.079><c> new</c><00:11:32.240><c> glass</c> in and says, "I think the new glass release<00:11:32.880><c> is</c><00:11:33.040><c> awesome.</c><00:11:33.360><c> Should</c><00:11:33.519><c> we</c><00:11:33.680><c> use</c><00:11:33.839><c> X?"</c> release is awesome. Should we use X?" He's<00:11:34.240><c> like,</c><00:11:34.320><c> "Fuck</c><00:11:34.720><c> no,</c><00:11:35.120><c> right?"</c><00:11:35.600><c> And</c><00:11:35.839><c> then</c>

He's like, "Fuck no, right?" And then finally,<00:11:36.399><c> he's</c><00:11:36.640><c> like,</c><00:11:37.200><c> "All</c><00:11:37.680><c> the</c><00:11:37.920><c> developers</c> finally, he's like, "All the developers are<00:11:38.880><c> on</c><00:11:39.120><c> X.</c><00:11:39.680><c> If</c><00:11:39.920><c> we're</c><00:11:40.079><c> going</c><00:11:40.160><c> to</c><00:11:40.320><c> launch</c><00:11:40.640><c> Spa,</c> are on X. If we're going to launch Spa, we<00:11:41.120><c> just</c><00:11:41.279><c> look</c><00:11:41.440><c> like</c><00:11:41.680><c> idiots."</c><00:11:42.000><c> And</c><00:11:42.079><c> then</c><00:11:42.240><c> he's</c>

we just look like idiots." And then he's like,<00:11:42.480><c> "Okay,</c><00:11:43.279><c> I'll</c><00:11:43.519><c> type</c><00:11:43.839><c> something</c><00:11:44.000><c> on</c><00:11:44.240><c> the</c> like, "Okay, I'll type something on the clown<00:11:44.720><c> car</c><00:11:44.959><c> company."</c><00:11:45.680><c> Right.</c><00:11:46.000><c> Anyway,</c> clown car company." Right. Anyway, that's<00:11:46.720><c> fine.</c><00:11:47.040><c> But</c><00:11:47.200><c> I</c><00:11:48.320><c> before</c><00:11:48.480><c> you</c><00:11:48.640><c> move</c><00:11:48.800><c> off</c>

that's fine. But I before you move off that,<00:11:49.200><c> Alexander</c><00:11:49.760><c> Wang</c><00:11:50.160><c> has</c><00:11:50.399><c> done</c><00:11:50.720><c> 27</c><00:11:51.360><c> posts</c> that, Alexander Wang has done 27 posts on<00:11:52.000><c> X</c><00:11:52.640><c> to</c><00:11:52.959><c> three</c><00:11:53.279><c> posts</c><00:11:53.600><c> on</c><00:11:53.920><c> threads</c><00:11:54.560><c> and</c><00:11:54.800><c> it</c> on X to three posts on threads and it actually<00:11:55.360><c> got</c><00:11:55.680><c> people</c><00:11:55.920><c> quite</c><00:11:56.240><c> pissed</c><00:11:56.560><c> off</c>

actually got people quite pissed off online<00:11:57.200><c> and</c><00:11:57.440><c> I</c><00:11:57.600><c> think</c><00:11:57.680><c> internally</c> online and I think internally >> they<00:11:58.240><c> probably</c><00:11:58.480><c> forgot</c><00:11:58.720><c> they</c><00:11:58.959><c> had</c><00:11:59.040><c> threads</c><00:11:59.440><c> as</c> >> they probably forgot they had threads as I<00:11:59.760><c> as</c><00:12:00.000><c> did</c><00:12:00.160><c> I</c><00:12:00.560><c> until</c><00:12:00.880><c> the</c><00:12:01.040><c> other</c><00:12:01.120><c> day.</c><00:12:02.399><c> It's</c><00:12:02.640><c> got</c>

I as did I until the other day. It's got 400<00:12:03.440><c> million</c><00:12:03.839><c> users</c><00:12:04.399><c> apparently.</c> 400 million users apparently. >> Sort<00:12:05.040><c> of.</c> >> Sort of. >> Yeah.<00:12:05.519><c> No,</c><00:12:06.160><c> again</c><00:12:06.399><c> it's</c> >> Yeah. No, again it's >> because<00:12:07.040><c> it's</c><00:12:07.120><c> in</c><00:12:07.360><c> integrated</c><00:12:07.839><c> into</c> >> because it's in integrated into

Instagram.<00:12:08.480><c> You</c><00:12:08.639><c> can't</c><00:12:08.800><c> help</c><00:12:08.880><c> but</c><00:12:09.120><c> see</c><00:12:09.200><c> it.</c><00:12:09.440><c> It</c> Instagram. You can't help but see it. It doesn't<00:12:09.680><c> mean</c><00:12:09.760><c> there's</c><00:12:10.000><c> any</c><00:12:10.240><c> real</c> doesn't mean there's any real engagement. >> Activity<00:12:11.680><c> is</c><00:12:11.839><c> the</c><00:12:12.000><c> word.</c><00:12:12.480><c> Engagement.</c><00:12:13.120><c> Let's</c>

>> Activity is the word. Engagement. Let's be<00:12:13.440><c> honest.</c><00:12:13.920><c> at</c><00:12:14.240><c> three</c><00:12:15.040><c> inveterate</c> be honest. at three inveterate inveterate<00:12:17.600><c> Twitter</c><00:12:18.000><c> junkies</c><00:12:18.560><c> here,</c><00:12:19.279><c> guys.</c> inveterate Twitter junkies here, guys. We<00:12:19.920><c> know</c><00:12:20.000><c> where</c><00:12:20.240><c> the</c><00:12:20.399><c> action</c><00:12:20.639><c> is</c><00:12:20.800><c> and</c><00:12:20.959><c> it</c><00:12:21.120><c> ain't</c>

We know where the action is and it ain't on<00:12:21.440><c> threads,</c><00:12:22.000><c> okay?</c><00:12:22.399><c> Let's</c><00:12:22.720><c> be</c><00:12:22.880><c> honest,</c> on threads, okay? Let's be honest, people.<00:12:23.760><c> If</c><00:12:24.000><c> there</c><00:12:24.160><c> was</c><00:12:24.399><c> action</c><00:12:24.720><c> on</c><00:12:25.040><c> threads,</c> J<00:12:26.160><c> Harry,</c><00:12:26.480><c> you'd</c><00:12:26.720><c> be</c><00:12:26.880><c> there.</c><00:12:28.000><c> If</c><00:12:28.020><c> [laughter]</c>

J Harry, you'd be there. If [laughter] there<00:12:28.399><c> was</c><00:12:28.560><c> action</c><00:12:28.880><c> on</c><00:12:29.120><c> Mars,</c><00:12:29.600><c> Harry,</c><00:12:29.920><c> you'd</c> there was action on Mars, Harry, you'd be<00:12:30.160><c> there.</c><00:12:30.639><c> So,</c><00:12:31.040><c> let's</c><00:12:31.360><c> focus</c><00:12:31.600><c> on</c><00:12:31.920><c> let's</c><00:12:32.240><c> focus</c> be there. So, let's focus on let's focus on<00:12:32.560><c> the</c><00:12:32.720><c> real</c><00:12:32.959><c> point.</c><00:12:33.360><c> I</c><00:12:33.600><c> thought</c><00:12:33.839><c> I</c><00:12:34.000><c> thought</c>

on the real point. I thought I thought there's<00:12:34.240><c> a</c><00:12:34.480><c> ton</c><00:12:34.639><c> of</c><00:12:34.959><c> like</c><00:12:35.839><c> I</c><00:12:36.000><c> mean,</c><00:12:36.160><c> and</c><00:12:36.320><c> the</c> there's a ton of like I mean, and the stock<00:12:36.720><c> jumped</c><00:12:36.959><c> nicely</c><00:12:37.360><c> because</c><00:12:37.519><c> a</c><00:12:37.680><c> ton</c><00:12:37.839><c> of</c> stock jumped nicely because a ton of things<00:12:38.240><c> happened</c><00:12:38.480><c> here,</c><00:12:39.040><c> right?</c><00:12:39.600><c> You're</c>

things happened here, right? You're right.<00:12:40.160><c> They</c><00:12:41.279><c> they</c><00:12:42.000><c> shipped</c><00:12:42.320><c> spark</c><00:12:42.720><c> 10.1</c><00:12:43.680><c> they</c> right. They they shipped spark 10.1 they move<00:12:44.079><c> away</c><00:12:44.399><c> from</c><00:12:44.560><c> here</c><00:12:45.120><c> it's</c><00:12:45.680><c> free</c><00:12:46.240><c> as</c><00:12:46.480><c> I</c> move away from here it's free as I always<00:12:46.880><c> remind</c><00:12:47.120><c> myself</c><00:12:47.519><c> when</c><00:12:47.680><c> I</c><00:12:47.839><c> forget</c><00:12:48.560><c> it</c>

always remind myself when I forget it wasn't<00:12:49.120><c> blam</c><00:12:49.519><c> wasn't</c><00:12:49.760><c> open</c><00:12:49.920><c> source</c><00:12:50.160><c> it</c><00:12:50.399><c> was</c> wasn't blam wasn't open source it was open<00:12:50.720><c> weight</c><00:12:51.200><c> but</c><00:12:51.360><c> they've</c><00:12:51.600><c> moved</c><00:12:51.839><c> away</c><00:12:52.000><c> from</c> open weight but they've moved away from that<00:12:52.320><c> to</c><00:12:52.560><c> charging</c><00:12:52.880><c> on</c><00:12:53.040><c> an</c><00:12:53.200><c> API</c><00:12:53.760><c> you</c><00:12:53.920><c> know</c>

that to charging on an API you know they've<00:12:54.320><c> embraced</c><00:12:54.639><c> the</c><00:12:54.880><c> same</c><00:12:55.040><c> business</c><00:12:55.440><c> model</c> they've embraced the same business model as<00:12:56.000><c> the</c><00:12:56.240><c> other</c><00:12:56.880><c> frontier</c><00:12:57.360><c> labs</c><00:12:58.240><c> right</c><00:12:58.880><c> it's</c><00:12:59.120><c> a</c> as the other frontier labs right it's a decent<00:12:59.680><c> product</c><00:13:00.079><c> I've</c><00:13:00.320><c> used</c><00:13:00.480><c> it</c><00:13:00.639><c> as</c><00:13:00.800><c> an</c><00:13:00.959><c> end</c>

decent product I've used it as an end consumer<00:13:01.680><c> it</c><00:13:01.839><c> actually</c><00:13:02.160><c> you</c><00:13:02.320><c> know</c><00:13:02.480><c> I</c><00:13:03.040><c> compared</c> consumer it actually you know I compared and<00:13:03.600><c> contrasted</c><00:13:04.079><c> to</c><00:13:04.160><c> claude</c><00:13:04.480><c> and</c><00:13:04.639><c> some</c> and contrasted to claude and some answers<00:13:05.120><c> it</c><00:13:05.279><c> was</c><00:13:05.360><c> pretty</c><00:13:05.600><c> good</c><00:13:06.000><c> but</c><00:13:06.160><c> of</c><00:13:06.320><c> course</c>

answers it was pretty good but of course the<00:13:06.720><c> real</c><00:13:06.880><c> test</c><00:13:07.200><c> isn't</c><00:13:07.519><c> worry</c><00:13:07.920><c> the</c><00:13:08.079><c> end</c><00:13:08.240><c> user</c> the real test isn't worry the end user the<00:13:09.120><c> real</c><00:13:09.360><c> test</c><00:13:09.680><c> is</c><00:13:09.920><c> coding</c><00:13:10.800><c> and</c><00:13:11.200><c> you</c><00:13:11.360><c> know</c> the real test is coding and you know they<00:13:11.600><c> they</c><00:13:11.920><c> reported</c><00:13:12.320><c> good</c><00:13:12.560><c> benchmarks</c><00:13:13.040><c> but</c>

they they reported good benchmarks but in<00:13:13.440><c> the</c><00:13:13.600><c> past</c><00:13:14.399><c> their</c><00:13:14.800><c> benchmarks</c><00:13:15.279><c> haven't</c> in the past their benchmarks haven't been<00:13:15.680><c> as</c><00:13:15.839><c> good</c><00:13:16.000><c> and</c><00:13:16.160><c> we'll</c><00:13:16.320><c> talk</c><00:13:16.399><c> in</c><00:13:16.560><c> a</c><00:13:16.720><c> second</c> been as good and we'll talk in a second about<00:13:17.120><c> benchmarks</c><00:13:17.680><c> but</c><00:13:18.000><c> fundamentally</c><00:13:18.560><c> the</c>

about benchmarks but fundamentally the big<00:13:18.959><c> picture</c><00:13:19.279><c> point</c><00:13:19.519><c> is</c><00:13:20.000><c> in</c><00:13:20.240><c> the</c><00:13:20.480><c> game</c><00:13:21.200><c> using</c> big picture point is in the game using the<00:13:21.680><c> same</c><00:13:21.920><c> business</c><00:13:22.240><c> model</c><00:13:22.480><c> as</c><00:13:22.720><c> everyone</c><00:13:23.120><c> else</c> the same business model as everyone else entering<00:13:24.160><c> the</c><00:13:24.399><c> marketplace</c><00:13:24.880><c> with</c><00:13:25.120><c> the</c><00:13:25.279><c> low</c>

entering the marketplace with the low price<00:13:25.839><c> product</c><00:13:26.959><c> big</c><00:13:27.440><c> hit</c><00:13:27.680><c> to</c><00:13:27.920><c> competition</c><00:13:28.639><c> I</c> price product big hit to competition I mean<00:13:28.959><c> it's</c><00:13:29.279><c> you</c><00:13:29.440><c> know</c><00:13:29.600><c> going</c><00:13:29.839><c> toe-to-toe</c><00:13:30.320><c> with</c> mean it's you know going toe-to-toe with the<00:13:30.639><c> balance</c><00:13:30.880><c> sheet</c><00:13:31.040><c> to</c><00:13:31.200><c> afford</c><00:13:31.519><c> it</c><00:13:31.760><c> right</c>

the balance sheet to afford it right will<00:13:32.560><c> it</c><00:13:32.720><c> be</c><00:13:32.959><c> ROI</c><00:13:33.600><c> positive</c><00:13:34.000><c> over</c><00:13:34.320><c> five</c><00:13:34.480><c> or</c><00:13:34.720><c> 10</c> will it be ROI positive over five or 10 years<00:13:35.200><c> to</c><00:13:35.360><c> be</c><00:13:35.519><c> the</c><00:13:35.680><c> fourth</c><00:13:36.000><c> player</c><00:13:36.240><c> in</c><00:13:36.399><c> the</c> years to be the fourth player in the

market<00:13:36.959><c> selling</c><00:13:37.279><c> at</c><00:13:37.519><c> that</c><00:13:37.680><c> price</c><00:13:38.079><c> I</c><00:13:38.240><c> don't</c> market selling at that price I don't know<00:13:39.200><c> But,</c><00:13:40.000><c> you</c><00:13:40.079><c> know,</c><00:13:40.160><c> if</c><00:13:40.320><c> you're</c><00:13:40.560><c> open</c><00:13:40.800><c> AI</c> know But, you know, if you're open AI and<00:13:41.200><c> Entropic,</c><00:13:41.760><c> you'd</c><00:13:41.920><c> have</c><00:13:42.000><c> preferred</c><00:13:42.320><c> this</c>

and Entropic, you'd have preferred this not<00:13:42.720><c> to</c><00:13:42.880><c> happen.</c> not to happen. >> It<00:13:43.600><c> seems</c><00:13:43.839><c> to</c><00:13:44.079><c> me</c><00:13:45.040><c> like</c><00:13:45.440><c> for</c><00:13:45.760><c> look,</c><00:13:46.000><c> it's</c><00:13:46.560><c> the</c> >> It seems to me like for look, it's the tweets's<00:13:47.279><c> fun.</c><00:13:47.920><c> Clearly,</c><00:13:48.320><c> they</c><00:13:48.639><c> want</c><00:13:48.720><c> to</c><00:13:48.880><c> win</c>

tweets's fun. Clearly, they want to win the<00:13:49.200><c> eval</c><00:13:49.680><c> game</c><00:13:49.839><c> and</c><00:13:50.000><c> the</c><00:13:50.079><c> eval</c><00:13:50.480><c> tweet</c><00:13:50.720><c> game</c> the eval game and the eval tweet game that's<00:13:51.120><c> out</c><00:13:51.279><c> there.</c><00:13:51.519><c> It</c><00:13:51.760><c> gets</c><00:13:51.920><c> attent</c><00:13:52.240><c> like</c><00:13:52.399><c> it</c> that's out there. It gets attent like it clearly<00:13:52.800><c> gets</c><00:13:52.959><c> attention,</c><00:13:53.440><c> right?</c><00:13:53.920><c> Where</c><00:13:54.160><c> you</c>

clearly gets attention, right? Where you are<00:13:54.639><c> on</c><00:13:54.800><c> on</c><00:13:55.040><c> the</c><00:13:55.200><c> evals</c><00:13:55.680><c> gets</c><00:13:55.920><c> attention.</c><00:13:56.320><c> It's</c> are on on the evals gets attention. It's very<00:13:56.720><c> valuable.</c><00:13:57.120><c> It's</c><00:13:57.279><c> worth</c><00:13:57.519><c> going</c><00:13:57.680><c> on</c> very valuable. It's worth going on Twitter<00:13:58.079><c> for</c><00:13:58.320><c> Zuck.</c><00:13:59.120><c> Um,</c><00:14:00.320><c> my</c><00:14:00.639><c> view</c><00:14:01.120><c> is</c><00:14:01.519><c> that</c><00:14:02.639><c> my</c>

Twitter for Zuck. Um, my view is that my Captain<00:14:03.279><c> Obvious</c><00:14:03.680><c> view</c><00:14:04.000><c> is</c><00:14:05.199><c> everyone's</c><00:14:05.760><c> going</c> Captain Obvious view is everyone's going to<00:14:06.000><c> be</c><00:14:06.240><c> token</c><00:14:06.639><c> maxing</c><00:14:07.040><c> if</c><00:14:07.120><c> they</c><00:14:07.279><c> aren't</c> to be token maxing if they aren't already.<00:14:07.839><c> everyone's</c><00:14:08.240><c> going</c><00:14:08.320><c> to</c><00:14:08.480><c> hit</c><00:14:08.560><c> the</c>

already. everyone's going to hit the limits.<00:14:09.040><c> I</c><00:14:09.199><c> finally</c><00:14:09.440><c> hit</c><00:14:09.600><c> my</c><00:14:09.760><c> quad</c><00:14:10.079><c> limits</c> limits. I finally hit my quad limits yesterday<00:14:10.639><c> for</c><00:14:10.880><c> the</c><00:14:11.040><c> first</c><00:14:11.199><c> time</c><00:14:12.079><c> um</c><00:14:12.240><c> on</c><00:14:12.480><c> my</c> yesterday for the first time um on my max<00:14:12.959><c> plan</c><00:14:13.199><c> and</c><00:14:13.360><c> I</c><00:14:13.519><c> had</c><00:14:13.600><c> to</c><00:14:13.760><c> decide</c><00:14:14.000><c> what</c><00:14:14.160><c> to</c><00:14:14.320><c> do,</c>

max plan and I had to decide what to do, right?<00:14:15.600><c> So,</c><00:14:16.240><c> everyone</c><00:14:16.800><c> every</c><00:14:17.120><c> and</c><00:14:17.360><c> as</c><00:14:17.600><c> every</c> right? So, everyone every and as every organization<00:14:18.480><c> goes</c><00:14:18.720><c> from</c><00:14:19.360><c> burn</c><00:14:19.680><c> all</c><00:14:19.839><c> the</c> organization goes from burn all the tokens<00:14:20.399><c> you</c><00:14:20.639><c> want</c><00:14:20.880><c> baby</c><00:14:21.279><c> to</c><00:14:21.839><c> budgets,</c><00:14:23.279><c> however</c>

tokens you want baby to budgets, however you<00:14:23.839><c> do</c><00:14:23.920><c> it,</c><00:14:24.079><c> whether</c><00:14:24.320><c> it's</c><00:14:24.560><c> automated,</c> you do it, whether it's automated, whether<00:14:25.360><c> it's</c><00:14:25.519><c> manual,</c><00:14:26.000><c> whether</c><00:14:26.240><c> it's</c> whether it's manual, whether it's picking<00:14:26.639><c> a</c><00:14:26.880><c> drop</c><00:14:27.040><c> down,</c><00:14:27.279><c> everyone's</c><00:14:27.600><c> going</c><00:14:27.680><c> to</c>

picking a drop down, everyone's going to have<00:14:27.920><c> to</c><00:14:28.000><c> have</c><00:14:28.079><c> a</c><00:14:28.240><c> cheaper</c><00:14:28.560><c> model.</c><00:14:28.880><c> It</c><00:14:29.040><c> may</c><00:14:29.199><c> be</c> have to have a cheaper model. It may be in<00:14:29.519><c> your</c><00:14:29.680><c> product</c><00:14:30.079><c> for</c><00:14:30.320><c> cheaper</c><00:14:31.040><c> uh</c> in your product for cheaper uh workflows,<00:14:32.160><c> it</c><00:14:32.399><c> may</c><00:14:32.560><c> be</c><00:14:32.639><c> for</c><00:14:32.880><c> coding.</c><00:14:33.360><c> So</c>

workflows, it may be for coding. So everyone,<00:14:34.160><c> so</c><00:14:34.399><c> so</c><00:14:34.720><c> at</c><00:14:34.880><c> the</c><00:14:35.040><c> moment</c><00:14:35.360><c> this</c><00:14:35.600><c> seems</c> everyone, so so at the moment this seems like<00:14:36.079><c> a</c><00:14:36.320><c> battle</c><00:14:36.720><c> for</c><00:14:36.959><c> for</c><00:14:37.040><c> for</c><00:14:37.519><c> the</c><00:14:37.760><c> cheap</c> like a battle for for for the cheap seats >> and<00:14:39.199><c> it's</c><00:14:39.440><c> a</c><00:14:39.600><c> big</c><00:14:39.760><c> battle</c><00:14:40.079><c> for</c><00:14:40.240><c> the</c><00:14:40.399><c> cheap</c>

>> and it's a big battle for the cheap seats<00:14:41.040><c> and</c><00:14:42.079><c> um</c><00:14:42.639><c> we'll</c><00:14:42.959><c> see</c><00:14:43.120><c> what</c><00:14:43.360><c> happens.</c><00:14:43.920><c> Um</c> seats and um we'll see what happens. Um we<00:14:44.560><c> don't</c><00:14:44.720><c> talk</c><00:14:44.959><c> about</c><00:14:45.120><c> it,</c><00:14:45.360><c> but</c><00:14:46.000><c> I</c><00:14:46.240><c> think</c> we don't talk about it, but I think Haiku<00:14:46.880><c> from</c><00:14:47.040><c> Anthropic</c><00:14:47.600><c> is</c><00:14:47.680><c> a</c><00:14:47.920><c> pretty</c><00:14:48.079><c> damn</c>

Haiku from Anthropic is a pretty damn good<00:14:48.560><c> product</c><00:14:48.880><c> and</c><00:14:49.120><c> in</c><00:14:49.360><c> one</c><00:14:49.519><c> day</c><00:14:49.680><c> they</c><00:14:49.839><c> could</c> good product and in one day they could make<00:14:50.160><c> it</c><00:14:50.320><c> better</c><00:14:50.639><c> just</c><00:14:50.880><c> by</c><00:14:51.120><c> by</c><00:14:51.440><c> adjusting</c><00:14:51.839><c> the</c> make it better just by by adjusting the slider<00:14:52.399><c> of</c><00:14:52.560><c> how</c><00:14:52.800><c> much</c><00:14:52.959><c> opus</c><00:14:53.920><c> uh</c><00:14:54.000><c> you</c><00:14:54.240><c> get</c><00:14:54.320><c> in</c>

slider of how much opus uh you get in Haiku.<00:14:55.040><c> I</c><00:14:55.199><c> literally</c><00:14:55.440><c> use</c><00:14:55.680><c> a</c><00:14:55.920><c> massive</c><00:14:56.320><c> amount</c> Haiku. I literally use a massive amount of<00:14:56.560><c> Haiku</c><00:14:57.519><c> and</c><00:14:57.760><c> for</c><00:14:58.079><c> like</c><00:14:58.880><c> cheap</c><00:14:59.279><c> simple</c><00:14:59.600><c> stuff</c> of Haiku and for like cheap simple stuff it's<00:15:00.160><c> really</c><00:15:00.399><c> good</c><00:15:00.560><c> and</c><00:15:00.800><c> it's</c><00:15:00.959><c> a</c><00:15:01.120><c> tenth</c><00:15:01.360><c> of</c><00:15:01.440><c> a</c>

it's really good and it's a tenth of a cent,<00:15:02.079><c> right?</c><00:15:02.399><c> And</c><00:15:02.639><c> so</c><00:15:03.440><c> there's</c><00:15:03.760><c> a</c><00:15:04.000><c> battle</c><00:15:04.320><c> for</c> cent, right? And so there's a battle for this<00:15:05.120><c> second</c><00:15:05.440><c> bucket.</c><00:15:06.480><c> How</c><00:15:06.720><c> much</c><00:15:06.880><c> of</c><00:15:07.040><c> the</c> this second bucket. How much of the margin<00:15:07.519><c> is</c><00:15:07.680><c> there?</c><00:15:08.000><c> How</c><00:15:08.160><c> much</c><00:15:08.320><c> of</c><00:15:08.399><c> the</c>

margin is there? How much of the revenue?<00:15:09.360><c> Who</c><00:15:09.600><c> wants</c><00:15:09.839><c> to</c><00:15:10.000><c> win</c><00:15:10.079><c> in</c><00:15:10.320><c> it?</c><00:15:10.480><c> I</c><00:15:10.639><c> don't</c> revenue? Who wants to win in it? I don't know.<00:15:10.880><c> So</c><00:15:10.959><c> I</c><00:15:11.199><c> think</c><00:15:11.199><c> it's</c><00:15:11.519><c> interesting,</c><00:15:12.399><c> but</c> know. So I think it's interesting, but but<00:15:12.880><c> it</c><00:15:13.120><c> it</c><00:15:13.440><c> it</c><00:15:14.000><c> appears</c><00:15:14.320><c> to</c><00:15:14.480><c> be</c><00:15:14.639><c> a</c><00:15:14.800><c> battle</c><00:15:15.199><c> in</c>

but it it it appears to be a battle in the<00:15:15.519><c> frontier</c><00:15:16.079><c> bucket,</c><00:15:16.560><c> but</c><00:15:16.800><c> I</c><00:15:17.040><c> think</c><00:15:17.120><c> it's</c><00:15:17.279><c> a</c> the frontier bucket, but I think it's a battle<00:15:17.680><c> to</c><00:15:18.079><c> in</c><00:15:18.240><c> the</c><00:15:18.399><c> Btier</c><00:15:18.800><c> bucket</c><00:15:19.040><c> where</c> battle to in the Btier bucket where there's<00:15:19.440><c> still</c><00:15:19.600><c> a</c><00:15:19.839><c> lot</c><00:15:19.920><c> of</c><00:15:20.079><c> volume,</c><00:15:20.320><c> but</c><00:15:20.560><c> how</c>

there's still a lot of volume, but how much<00:15:20.959><c> margin</c><00:15:21.279><c> of</c><00:15:21.440><c> revenue</c><00:15:21.680><c> is</c><00:15:22.000><c> TBD?</c> much margin of revenue is TBD? >> I<00:15:23.279><c> think</c><00:15:23.440><c> that's</c><00:15:23.600><c> correct.</c><00:15:25.040><c> Not</c><00:15:25.279><c> quite.</c><00:15:25.600><c> But</c> >> I think that's correct. Not quite. But on<00:15:26.000><c> the</c><00:15:26.079><c> other</c><00:15:26.560><c> first</c><00:15:27.199><c> agree</c><00:15:27.519><c> with</c><00:15:27.600><c> you</c><00:15:27.760><c> and</c><00:15:27.920><c> I</c>

on the other first agree with you and I I<00:15:28.480><c> think</c><00:15:28.560><c> the</c><00:15:28.720><c> data</c><00:15:29.040><c> bricks</c><00:15:29.279><c> paper</c><00:15:29.440><c> and</c><00:15:29.600><c> a</c> I think the data bricks paper and a couple<00:15:30.000><c> other</c><00:15:30.160><c> papers</c><00:15:30.399><c> that</c><00:15:30.560><c> we'll</c><00:15:30.720><c> talk</c> couple other papers that we'll talk about<00:15:31.199><c> have</c><00:15:31.440><c> talked</c><00:15:31.680><c> about</c><00:15:31.920><c> this</c><00:15:32.160><c> concept</c><00:15:32.560><c> of</c>

about have talked about this concept of buckets<00:15:33.279><c> and</c><00:15:33.440><c> tiers</c><00:15:34.160><c> of</c><00:15:34.399><c> model</c><00:15:34.639><c> and</c><00:15:34.800><c> I</c><00:15:34.959><c> like</c> buckets and tiers of model and I like what<00:15:35.199><c> you're</c><00:15:35.360><c> saying</c><00:15:35.600><c> Jason</c><00:15:35.920><c> you're</c><00:15:36.079><c> exactly</c> what you're saying Jason you're exactly right<00:15:37.519><c> when</c><00:15:37.760><c> the</c><00:15:38.000><c> pressure</c><00:15:38.320><c> on</c><00:15:38.800><c> spend</c><00:15:39.199><c> is</c><00:15:39.360><c> out</c>

right when the pressure on spend is out there<00:15:40.800><c> every</c><00:15:41.519><c> the</c><00:15:41.760><c> sentence</c><00:15:42.000><c> you</c><00:15:42.160><c> said</c><00:15:42.320><c> that</c> there every the sentence you said that really<00:15:42.720><c> resonate</c><00:15:43.040><c> with</c><00:15:43.120><c> me</c><00:15:43.199><c> is</c><00:15:43.600><c> every</c><00:15:43.920><c> company</c> really resonate with me is every company is<00:15:44.399><c> going</c><00:15:44.560><c> to</c><00:15:44.639><c> have</c><00:15:44.720><c> an</c><00:15:44.959><c> internal</c><00:15:45.360><c> tearing</c>

is going to have an internal tearing they<00:15:46.079><c> might</c><00:15:46.240><c> all</c><00:15:46.399><c> buy</c><00:15:46.560><c> it</c><00:15:46.720><c> from</c><00:15:46.880><c> open</c><00:15:47.199><c> AI</c><00:15:47.440><c> or</c> they might all buy it from open AI or anthropic<00:15:48.240><c> but</c><00:15:48.480><c> every</c><00:15:48.800><c> company</c><00:15:49.040><c> with</c><00:15:49.279><c> a</c><00:15:49.440><c> CIO</c> anthropic but every company with a CIO who's<00:15:50.160><c> half</c><00:15:50.320><c> awake</c><00:15:51.120><c> is</c><00:15:51.440><c> going</c><00:15:51.600><c> to</c><00:15:51.759><c> have</c><00:15:52.000><c> a</c>

who's half awake is going to have a cheap<00:15:52.560><c> token</c><00:15:52.959><c> model</c><00:15:53.519><c> to</c><00:15:53.839><c> hand</c><00:15:54.320><c> to</c><00:15:54.639><c> stop</c><00:15:54.800><c> this</c> cheap token model to hand to stop this madness. And<00:15:56.240><c> to</c><00:15:56.399><c> some</c><00:15:56.560><c> extent</c><00:15:56.880><c> that</c><00:15:57.040><c> means</c><00:15:57.199><c> there's</c><00:15:57.360><c> a</c> And to some extent that means there's a slot<00:15:57.680><c> for</c><00:15:57.839><c> that.</c><00:15:58.560><c> A</c><00:15:58.800><c> fun</c><00:15:59.120><c> interesting</c><00:15:59.519><c> one</c>

slot for that. A fun interesting one would<00:15:59.920><c> be</c><00:16:00.160><c> you</c><00:16:00.399><c> guys</c><00:16:00.560><c> know</c><00:16:00.800><c> that</c><00:16:01.199><c> obviously</c> would be you guys know that obviously Meta<00:16:02.399><c> did</c><00:16:02.639><c> that</c><00:16:02.880><c> contract</c><00:16:04.160><c> you</c><00:16:04.320><c> know</c><00:16:04.560><c> they're</c> Meta did that contract you know they're starting<00:16:05.040><c> to</c><00:16:05.199><c> offer</c><00:16:05.519><c> their</c><00:16:05.759><c> capacity</c><00:16:06.320><c> now</c>

starting to offer their capacity now just<00:16:06.959><c> like</c><00:16:07.120><c> SpaceX</c><00:16:07.680><c> on</c><00:16:07.920><c> a</c><00:16:08.160><c> you</c><00:16:08.320><c> know</c><00:16:08.800><c> you</c> just like SpaceX on a you know you short-term<00:16:09.839><c> basis.</c><00:16:10.240><c> It'll</c><00:16:10.560><c> be</c><00:16:10.639><c> fun</c><00:16:10.880><c> to</c><00:16:11.040><c> figure</c> short-term basis. It'll be fun to figure out<00:16:11.600><c> at</c><00:16:11.920><c> what</c><00:16:12.160><c> price</c><00:16:13.360><c> you</c><00:16:13.519><c> know</c><00:16:14.480><c> it's</c><00:16:14.800><c> not</c>

out at what price you know it's not clear<00:16:15.199><c> to</c><00:16:15.360><c> me</c><00:16:15.440><c> that</c><00:16:15.680><c> they</c><00:16:15.920><c> would</c><00:16:16.079><c> make</c><00:16:16.240><c> more</c> clear to me that they would make more money<00:16:16.880><c> selling</c><00:16:17.199><c> at</c><00:16:17.360><c> these</c><00:16:17.600><c> token</c><00:16:18.000><c> prices.</c> money selling at these token prices. They<00:16:18.560><c> might</c><00:16:18.720><c> actually</c><00:16:18.880><c> make</c><00:16:19.040><c> more</c><00:16:19.279><c> money</c>

They might actually make more money renting<00:16:19.839><c> their</c><00:16:20.079><c> capacity</c><00:16:20.560><c> out.</c><00:16:20.959><c> So</c><00:16:21.199><c> it'll</c><00:16:21.519><c> be</c> renting their capacity out. So it'll be interesting<00:16:21.920><c> to</c><00:16:22.160><c> think</c><00:16:22.320><c> about</c><00:16:22.560><c> compute</c><00:16:22.880><c> to</c> interesting to think about compute to the<00:16:23.199><c> highest</c><00:16:23.519><c> user.</c><00:16:24.480><c> Um,</c><00:16:25.279><c> you</c><00:16:25.440><c> know,</c><00:16:25.519><c> we'll</c>

the highest user. Um, you know, we'll actually<00:16:25.920><c> have</c><00:16:26.079><c> that</c><00:16:26.240><c> discussion</c><00:16:26.639><c> again</c><00:16:26.800><c> when</c> actually have that discussion again when we<00:16:27.199><c> come</c><00:16:27.360><c> to</c><00:16:27.920><c> Gro/SP</c><00:16:28.639><c> SpaceX,</c><00:16:29.839><c> but</c><00:16:30.399><c> you</c><00:16:30.560><c> know,</c> we come to Gro/SP SpaceX, but you know, this<00:16:31.199><c> is</c><00:16:31.279><c> an</c><00:16:31.519><c> aggressively</c><00:16:32.079><c> priced</c><00:16:32.480><c> product</c>

this is an aggressively priced product and<00:16:33.279><c> you</c><00:16:33.440><c> know,</c><00:16:33.839><c> good</c><00:16:34.079><c> on</c><00:16:34.240><c> them.</c><00:16:34.399><c> You're</c> and you know, good on them. You're right,<00:16:34.800><c> Jason.</c><00:16:35.120><c> It's</c><00:16:35.360><c> pushing</c><00:16:35.680><c> at</c><00:16:35.839><c> the</c><00:16:35.920><c> low</c> right, Jason. It's pushing at the low end.<00:16:36.720><c> Well,</c><00:16:36.880><c> we</c> end. Well, we

>> probably<00:16:37.759><c> play</c><00:16:37.839><c> it</c><00:16:37.920><c> by</c><00:16:38.079><c> ear.</c><00:16:38.240><c> I</c><00:16:38.399><c> mean,</c><00:16:38.480><c> if</c><00:16:38.639><c> this</c> >> probably play it by ear. I mean, if this is<00:16:38.959><c> more</c><00:16:39.120><c> successful,</c><00:16:39.680><c> then</c><00:16:39.920><c> they</c><00:16:40.079><c> get</c><00:16:40.240><c> more</c> is more successful, then they get more capacity.<00:16:40.800><c> If</c><00:16:40.959><c> it's</c><00:16:41.120><c> less,</c><00:16:41.600><c> then</c><00:16:41.839><c> they</c><00:16:42.000><c> give</c>

capacity. If it's less, then they give it<00:16:42.240><c> to</c><00:16:42.320><c> their</c><00:16:42.560><c> competitors.</c><00:16:43.199><c> I</c><00:16:43.360><c> mean,</c><00:16:44.079><c> they'll</c> it to their competitors. I mean, they'll they'll<00:16:44.800><c> probably</c><00:16:45.040><c> play</c><00:16:45.279><c> it</c><00:16:45.360><c> by</c><00:16:45.600><c> ear.</c> they'll probably play it by ear. >> We<00:16:46.720><c> mentioned</c><00:16:47.040><c> the</c><00:16:47.199><c> data</c><00:16:47.519><c> bricks</c><00:16:47.839><c> paper.</c><00:16:48.320><c> It</c>

>> We mentioned the data bricks paper. It got<00:16:49.040><c> a</c><00:16:49.199><c> lot</c><00:16:49.279><c> of</c><00:16:49.440><c> attention.</c><00:16:50.240><c> Um,</c><00:16:51.600><c> can</c><00:16:51.759><c> we</c><00:16:52.000><c> can</c> got a lot of attention. Um, can we can we<00:16:52.320><c> actually</c><00:16:52.639><c> stay</c><00:16:52.800><c> on</c><00:16:53.120><c> that?</c><00:16:54.160><c> Can</c><00:16:54.399><c> you</c> we actually stay on that? Can you summarize<00:16:55.440><c> what</c><00:16:55.759><c> happened</c><00:16:56.079><c> and</c><00:16:56.320><c> why</c><00:16:56.480><c> it's</c>

summarize what happened and why it's important? >> Some<00:16:57.839><c> of</c><00:16:57.920><c> the</c><00:16:58.079><c> stuff</c><00:16:58.160><c> is</c><00:16:58.399><c> obvious.</c><00:16:58.880><c> I</c><00:16:59.040><c> read</c><00:16:59.199><c> it</c> >> Some of the stuff is obvious. I read it all<00:16:59.680><c> and</c><00:16:59.920><c> trying</c><00:17:00.079><c> to</c><00:17:00.320><c> the</c><00:17:00.560><c> big</c><00:17:00.720><c> picture</c><00:17:01.040><c> at</c><00:17:01.120><c> the</c>

all and trying to the big picture at the start<00:17:01.440><c> was</c><00:17:01.680><c> the</c><00:17:01.839><c> basic</c><00:17:02.079><c> point</c><00:17:02.320><c> is</c><00:17:02.560><c> you</c><00:17:02.720><c> know</c> start was the basic point is you know you<00:17:03.120><c> know</c><00:17:03.600><c> cost</c><00:17:03.920><c> per</c><00:17:04.160><c> token</c><00:17:05.039><c> is</c><00:17:05.360><c> really</c><00:17:05.600><c> not</c><00:17:05.839><c> a</c> you know cost per token is really not a

useful<00:17:06.319><c> metric.</c><00:17:06.799><c> It's</c><00:17:07.039><c> kind</c><00:17:07.280><c> of</c><00:17:07.679><c> cost</c><00:17:08.000><c> per</c> useful metric. It's kind of cost per completed<00:17:08.799><c> task</c><00:17:09.199><c> was</c><00:17:09.360><c> the</c><00:17:09.520><c> first</c><00:17:09.679><c> thing.</c><00:17:09.919><c> How</c> completed task was the first thing. How much<00:17:10.240><c> does</c><00:17:10.400><c> it</c><00:17:10.559><c> cost</c><00:17:10.720><c> to</c><00:17:10.959><c> get</c><00:17:11.120><c> things</c><00:17:11.360><c> done,</c>

much does it cost to get things done, right?<00:17:12.559><c> And</c><00:17:12.880><c> because</c><00:17:13.199><c> one</c><00:17:13.360><c> of</c><00:17:13.439><c> the</c><00:17:13.600><c> ahas</c><00:17:14.000><c> is</c> right? And because one of the ahas is some<00:17:14.319><c> of</c><00:17:14.319><c> these</c><00:17:14.559><c> things</c><00:17:14.640><c> that</c><00:17:14.799><c> have</c><00:17:14.959><c> low</c><00:17:15.280><c> cost</c> some of these things that have low cost per<00:17:15.760><c> tokens,</c><00:17:16.880><c> their</c><00:17:17.120><c> reasoning</c><00:17:17.600><c> tokens</c><00:17:18.000><c> are</c>

per tokens, their reasoning tokens are more<00:17:18.400><c> expensive</c><00:17:18.720><c> than</c><00:17:18.880><c> their</c><00:17:19.120><c> co</c><00:17:19.360><c> basic</c> more expensive than their co basic tokens<00:17:20.079><c> and</c><00:17:20.319><c> then</c><00:17:20.400><c> you</c><00:17:20.559><c> don't</c><00:17:20.640><c> know</c><00:17:20.720><c> how</c><00:17:20.880><c> many</c> tokens and then you don't know how many they're<00:17:21.280><c> going</c><00:17:21.360><c> to</c><00:17:21.439><c> use.</c><00:17:21.760><c> So</c><00:17:22.000><c> there's</c><00:17:22.160><c> a</c><00:17:22.319><c> whole</c>

they're going to use. So there's a whole bunch<00:17:22.640><c> of</c><00:17:22.799><c> things.</c><00:17:23.120><c> So</c><00:17:23.439><c> the</c><00:17:23.600><c> the</c><00:17:24.160><c> first</c> bunch of things. So the the first picture<00:17:24.799><c> point</c><00:17:25.120><c> was</c><00:17:26.319><c> cost</c><00:17:26.559><c> per</c><00:17:26.880><c> completed</c> picture point was cost per completed task<00:17:27.839><c> is</c><00:17:28.160><c> really</c><00:17:28.480><c> the</c><00:17:28.720><c> thing</c><00:17:28.880><c> you</c><00:17:29.120><c> have</c><00:17:29.280><c> to</c>

task is really the thing you have to assess.<00:17:30.640><c> Then</c><00:17:30.880><c> the</c><00:17:31.120><c> second</c><00:17:31.360><c> point</c><00:17:31.600><c> they</c><00:17:31.840><c> made</c> assess. Then the second point they made which<00:17:32.240><c> was</c><00:17:32.400><c> interesting</c><00:17:32.640><c> is</c><00:17:32.799><c> you</c><00:17:32.960><c> end</c><00:17:33.039><c> up</c><00:17:33.200><c> with</c> which was interesting is you end up with a<00:17:33.440><c> paro</c><00:17:33.919><c> curve</c><00:17:34.720><c> for</c><00:17:34.960><c> different</c><00:17:35.280><c> kinds</c><00:17:35.520><c> of</c><00:17:35.679><c> task</c>

a paro curve for different kinds of task which<00:17:36.400><c> is</c><00:17:36.559><c> the</c><00:17:36.799><c> best</c><00:17:37.120><c> model</c><00:17:37.440><c> for</c><00:17:37.679><c> this</c><00:17:37.840><c> kind</c> which is the best model for this kind and<00:17:38.240><c> this</c><00:17:38.400><c> is</c><00:17:38.480><c> Jason's</c><00:17:38.960><c> point.</c><00:17:39.440><c> There</c><00:17:39.679><c> will</c><00:17:39.919><c> be</c> and this is Jason's point. There will be a<00:17:40.480><c> big</c><00:17:40.720><c> brainiac</c><00:17:41.440><c> frontier</c><00:17:42.799><c> set</c><00:17:43.039><c> of</c><00:17:43.200><c> tasks</c><00:17:43.919><c> for</c>

a big brainiac frontier set of tasks for which<00:17:44.400><c> you</c><00:17:44.559><c> use</c><00:17:44.720><c> them.</c><00:17:45.039><c> Once</c><00:17:45.280><c> you</c><00:17:45.520><c> quantify</c> which you use them. Once you quantify the<00:17:46.160><c> cost</c><00:17:46.400><c> per</c><00:17:46.640><c> task,</c><00:17:47.280><c> then</c><00:17:47.520><c> the</c><00:17:47.679><c> second</c><00:17:47.919><c> thing</c> the cost per task, then the second thing you're<00:17:48.240><c> going</c><00:17:48.320><c> to</c><00:17:48.400><c> have</c><00:17:48.559><c> is</c><00:17:48.960><c> different</c><00:17:49.280><c> tasks.</c>

you're going to have is different tasks. [snorts]<00:17:50.400><c> Different</c><00:17:50.720><c> models</c><00:17:51.039><c> are</c><00:17:51.200><c> more</c> [snorts] Different models are more cost-effective<00:17:52.000><c> at</c><00:17:52.240><c> different</c><00:17:52.480><c> tasks.</c><00:17:53.039><c> And</c><00:17:53.200><c> a</c> cost-effective at different tasks. And a quote<00:17:53.679><c> cheap</c><00:17:54.000><c> model</c><00:17:54.559><c> that</c><00:17:54.880><c> just</c><00:17:55.120><c> requires</c>

quote cheap model that just requires infinite<00:17:56.240><c> reasoning</c><00:17:56.799><c> mightn't</c><00:17:57.120><c> be</c><00:17:57.200><c> as</c><00:17:57.440><c> good</c> infinite reasoning mightn't be as good as<00:17:58.320><c> paying</c><00:17:58.559><c> up</c><00:17:58.720><c> for</c><00:17:58.880><c> the</c><00:17:59.039><c> more</c><00:17:59.200><c> expensive</c> as paying up for the more expensive model.<00:18:00.000><c> So</c><00:18:00.160><c> you</c><00:18:00.400><c> can</c><00:18:00.480><c> imagine</c><00:18:00.960><c> this</c><00:18:01.200><c> paro</c>

model. So you can imagine this paro curve<00:18:02.559><c> of</c><00:18:02.799><c> value.</c><00:18:03.520><c> And</c><00:18:03.679><c> then</c><00:18:03.840><c> the</c><00:18:04.000><c> third</c> curve of value. And then the third point,<00:18:04.720><c> broadly</c><00:18:05.200><c> speaking,</c><00:18:05.600><c> was</c><00:18:06.400><c> the</c><00:18:06.640><c> harness</c> point, broadly speaking, was the harness you<00:18:07.360><c> use.</c><00:18:07.679><c> In</c><00:18:07.919><c> other</c><00:18:08.000><c> words,</c><00:18:08.240><c> your</c>

you use. In other words, your infrastructure<00:18:09.679><c> around</c><00:18:09.919><c> that</c><00:18:10.320><c> massively</c> infrastructure around that massively impacts<00:18:11.520><c> kind</c><00:18:11.679><c> of</c><00:18:11.840><c> how</c><00:18:12.000><c> efficient</c><00:18:12.400><c> that</c><00:18:12.640><c> all</c> impacts kind of how efficient that all happens.<00:18:13.520><c> So</c><00:18:13.679><c> it's</c><00:18:13.919><c> quite</c><00:18:14.000><c> a</c><00:18:14.160><c> lot</c><00:18:14.240><c> of</c><00:18:14.320><c> just</c>

happens. So it's quite a lot of just >> data<00:18:16.240><c> data</c><00:18:16.480><c> bricks.</c><00:18:16.720><c> Yeah,</c><00:18:16.880><c> they</c><00:18:17.039><c> did.</c> >> data data bricks. Yeah, they did. Exactly.<00:18:17.679><c> Yeah.</c><00:18:17.919><c> I</c><00:18:18.080><c> mean,</c><00:18:18.320><c> I'm</c><00:18:18.640><c> shocked.</c> Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I'm shocked. Exactly.<00:18:19.440><c> I'm</c><00:18:19.679><c> shocked</c><00:18:20.000><c> to</c><00:18:20.160><c> discover</c><00:18:20.559><c> that</c>

Exactly. I'm shocked to discover that company<00:18:21.200><c> that</c><00:18:21.440><c> effectively</c><00:18:21.840><c> helps</c><00:18:22.080><c> you</c> company that effectively helps you manage<00:18:22.960><c> models</c><00:18:23.840><c> says</c><00:18:24.160><c> that</c><00:18:24.320><c> managing</c><00:18:24.720><c> models</c> manage models says that managing models is<00:18:25.360><c> important.</c><00:18:25.919><c> But</c><00:18:26.080><c> to</c><00:18:26.240><c> be</c><00:18:26.320><c> fair,</c><00:18:26.559><c> they</c>

is important. But to be fair, they produce<00:18:27.120><c> the</c><00:18:27.280><c> goods,</c><00:18:27.600><c> Jason,</c><00:18:27.919><c> in</c><00:18:28.160><c> terms</c><00:18:28.240><c> of,</c> produce the goods, Jason, in terms of, you<00:18:28.640><c> know,</c><00:18:28.799><c> facts</c><00:18:29.039><c> to</c><00:18:29.200><c> back</c><00:18:29.280><c> it</c><00:18:29.440><c> up.</c><00:18:29.679><c> And</c><00:18:29.760><c> it</c> you know, facts to back it up. And it makes<00:18:30.000><c> sense.</c><00:18:30.559><c> And</c><00:18:30.799><c> I</c><00:18:30.960><c> I</c><00:18:31.280><c> think</c><00:18:31.360><c> moving</c><00:18:31.679><c> away</c>

makes sense. And I I think moving away from<00:18:32.160><c> because</c><00:18:32.559><c> every</c><00:18:32.799><c> time</c><00:18:32.960><c> someone</c> from because every time someone announces<00:18:33.840><c> the</c><00:18:34.400><c> um</c><00:18:34.960><c> new</c><00:18:35.200><c> model,</c><00:18:35.520><c> they</c><00:18:35.679><c> they</c> announces the um new model, they they kind<00:18:36.080><c> of</c><00:18:36.160><c> give</c><00:18:36.320><c> you</c><00:18:36.400><c> the</c><00:18:36.640><c> cost</c><00:18:36.880><c> per</c><00:18:37.039><c> input,</c>

kind of give you the cost per input, million<00:18:37.760><c> input</c><00:18:38.000><c> and</c><00:18:38.240><c> output</c><00:18:38.559><c> tokens.</c><00:18:39.120><c> I</c><00:18:39.280><c> think</c> million input and output tokens. I think the<00:18:39.600><c> emphasis</c><00:18:40.000><c> on</c><00:18:40.240><c> cost</c><00:18:40.559><c> per</c><00:18:40.799><c> completed</c><00:18:41.280><c> task,</c> the emphasis on cost per completed task, it's<00:18:42.000><c> just</c><00:18:42.640><c> I</c><00:18:42.960><c> can</c><00:18:43.039><c> totally</c><00:18:43.360><c> see</c><00:18:43.520><c> that</c><00:18:43.760><c> making</c>

it's just I can totally see that making sense<00:18:44.240><c> if</c><00:18:44.480><c> I'm</c><00:18:44.640><c> the</c><00:18:44.799><c> CIO</c><00:18:45.919><c> and</c><00:18:46.080><c> again,</c><00:18:46.320><c> so</c><00:18:46.480><c> it's</c> sense if I'm the CIO and again, so it's in<00:18:46.720><c> just</c><00:18:46.880><c> in</c><00:18:47.120><c> tune</c><00:18:47.360><c> with</c><00:18:47.600><c> what</c><00:18:47.919><c> Jason</c><00:18:48.320><c> was</c> in just in tune with what Jason was

talking<00:18:48.799><c> about.</c> talking about. >> I<00:18:51.679><c> I</c><00:18:52.000><c> like</c><00:18:52.160><c> the</c><00:18:52.480><c> post</c><00:18:52.720><c> this</c><00:18:52.880><c> morning</c><00:18:53.039><c> from</c> >> I I like the post this morning from Aaron<00:18:53.520><c> Katz</c><00:18:53.840><c> at</c><00:18:53.919><c> Click</c><00:18:54.240><c> House,</c><00:18:54.480><c> who</c><00:18:54.720><c> said</c><00:18:54.799><c> that</c> Aaron Katz at Click House, who said that

their<00:18:55.600><c> AI</c><00:18:56.000><c> spend</c><00:18:56.320><c> is</c><00:18:56.559><c> up</c><00:18:56.880><c> 60x</c><00:18:57.679><c> since</c><00:18:58.000><c> February.</c> their AI spend is up 60x since February. Um, >> oh<00:19:00.320><c> yeah,</c><00:19:00.880><c> do</c><00:19:01.039><c> you</c><00:19:01.200><c> see</c><00:19:01.360><c> this?</c><00:19:01.600><c> It's</c> >> oh yeah, do you see this? It's >> a<00:19:02.559><c> post.</c><00:19:02.799><c> Yeah.</c>

>> a post. Yeah. >> Uh,<00:19:03.679><c> and</c><00:19:03.840><c> then</c><00:19:04.000><c> he</c><00:19:04.160><c> said,</c><00:19:04.240><c> "AI</c><00:19:04.720><c> is</c> >> Uh, and then he said, "AI is fundamentally<00:19:05.360><c> changing</c><00:19:05.760><c> what</c><00:19:05.919><c> is</c><00:19:06.160><c> expected</c> fundamentally changing what is expected from<00:19:06.640><c> a</c><00:19:06.799><c> data</c><00:19:07.039><c> platform.</c><00:19:07.520><c> We</c><00:19:07.679><c> can't</c><00:19:07.919><c> build</c><00:19:08.160><c> the</c>

from a data platform. We can't build the best<00:19:08.480><c> data</c><00:19:08.799><c> platform</c><00:19:09.039><c> for</c><00:19:09.280><c> AI</c><00:19:09.520><c> if</c><00:19:09.679><c> we</c><00:19:09.840><c> don't</c> best data platform for AI if we don't deeply<00:19:10.320><c> understand</c><00:19:10.559><c> it.</c><00:19:10.960><c> We're</c><00:19:11.200><c> investing</c><00:19:11.520><c> in</c> deeply understand it. We're investing in building<00:19:11.919><c> a</c><00:19:12.080><c> team</c><00:19:12.240><c> that's</c><00:19:12.480><c> truly</c><00:19:12.720><c> leading</c><00:19:13.039><c> in</c>

building a team that's truly leading in understanding<00:19:13.840><c> and</c><00:19:14.000><c> innovating</c><00:19:14.400><c> with</c><00:19:14.559><c> AI</c> understanding and innovating with AI 60x. >> It's<00:19:20.160><c> not</c> >> Jason." Well,<00:19:26.240><c> I</c><00:19:26.480><c> mean</c><00:19:26.640><c> I</c><00:19:26.720><c> I</c><00:19:26.960><c> mean</c><00:19:27.919><c> it</c><00:19:28.240><c> once</c><00:19:28.480><c> you</c><00:19:28.640><c> do</c> Well, I mean I I mean it once you do

anything<00:19:29.280><c> complicated,</c><00:19:29.840><c> it's</c><00:19:30.080><c> easy</c><00:19:30.320><c> to</c><00:19:30.480><c> go</c><00:19:30.559><c> up</c> anything complicated, it's easy to go up 60x,<00:19:31.520><c> right?</c><00:19:31.840><c> In</c><00:19:32.080><c> instead</c><00:19:32.400><c> of</c><00:19:32.559><c> doing</c><00:19:32.880><c> one</c> 60x, right? In instead of doing one design<00:19:33.679><c> for</c><00:19:34.000><c> one</c><00:19:34.160><c> page</c><00:19:34.400><c> your</c><00:19:34.640><c> website,</c><00:19:35.360><c> have</c>

design for one page your website, have cloud<00:19:35.919><c> design</c><00:19:36.240><c> redesign</c><00:19:36.640><c> your</c><00:19:36.799><c> entire</c> cloud design redesign your entire website<00:19:37.280><c> in</c><00:19:37.520><c> the</c><00:19:37.600><c> background.</c><00:19:38.080><c> That</c><00:19:38.240><c> that'll</c> website in the background. That that'll blow<00:19:38.799><c> your</c><00:19:38.960><c> token</c><00:19:39.280><c> budget</c><00:19:39.520><c> in</c><00:19:39.679><c> 5</c><00:19:39.919><c> minutes</c><00:19:40.640><c> for</c>

blow your token budget in 5 minutes for the<00:19:40.960><c> whole</c><00:19:41.120><c> month.</c><00:19:41.280><c> It'll</c><00:19:41.520><c> be</c><00:19:41.679><c> gone.</c><00:19:42.000><c> These</c> the whole month. It'll be gone. These these<00:19:42.559><c> really</c><00:19:42.880><c> complex</c><00:19:43.360><c> workflows</c><00:19:44.000><c> consume</c><00:19:44.320><c> a</c> these really complex workflows consume a lot<00:19:44.640><c> of</c><00:19:44.720><c> tokens</c><00:19:45.120><c> and</c><00:19:45.440><c> and</c><00:19:45.600><c> even</c><00:19:45.760><c> as</c><00:19:45.919><c> they</c><00:19:46.080><c> get</c>

lot of tokens and and even as they get cheaper,<00:19:46.559><c> the</c><00:19:46.799><c> workflows</c><00:19:47.360><c> the</c><00:19:47.600><c> outputs</c><00:19:48.000><c> are</c> cheaper, the workflows the outputs are getting<00:19:48.559><c> richer</c><00:19:48.880><c> and</c><00:19:49.039><c> richer</c><00:19:49.280><c> and</c><00:19:49.440><c> more</c><00:19:49.520><c> and</c> getting richer and richer and more and more<00:19:49.840><c> complicated.</c><00:19:50.480><c> So</c><00:19:51.039><c> I</c><00:19:51.120><c> I</c><00:19:51.440><c> think</c><00:19:51.679><c> listen</c><00:19:52.000><c> I</c>

more complicated. So I I think listen I mean<00:19:52.559><c> I</c><00:19:52.720><c> don't</c><00:19:52.799><c> know</c><00:19:52.880><c> how</c><00:19:53.039><c> much</c><00:19:53.120><c> time</c><00:19:53.280><c> you</c><00:19:53.440><c> want</c> mean I don't know how much time you want to<00:19:53.600><c> spend</c><00:19:53.760><c> on</c><00:19:53.919><c> this.</c><00:19:54.480><c> I</c><00:19:54.640><c> I</c><00:19:55.039><c> think</c><00:19:55.360><c> not</c><00:19:55.679><c> only</c><00:19:55.760><c> is</c>

to spend on this. I I think not only is token<00:19:56.320><c> maxing,</c><00:19:56.880><c> you</c><00:19:56.960><c> know,</c><00:19:57.120><c> gone</c><00:19:57.360><c> from</c><00:19:57.520><c> niche</c> token maxing, you know, gone from niche to<00:19:58.000><c> interesting,</c><00:19:58.480><c> right?</c><00:19:58.880><c> Um</c><00:19:59.760><c> uh</c><00:20:00.720><c> every</c> to interesting, right? Um uh every developer<00:20:01.440><c> can</c><00:20:01.679><c> consume</c><00:20:02.000><c> more</c><00:20:02.160><c> tokens,</c><00:20:03.120><c> the</c>

developer can consume more tokens, the mediocre<00:20:03.840><c> developers</c><00:20:04.320><c> can</c><00:20:04.480><c> do</c><00:20:04.559><c> it</c><00:20:04.720><c> to</c><00:20:04.880><c> be</c> mediocre developers can do it to be performative<00:20:05.520><c> and</c><00:20:05.760><c> pretend</c><00:20:06.080><c> they're</c><00:20:06.240><c> working</c> performative and pretend they're working even<00:20:06.720><c> though</c><00:20:06.880><c> none</c><00:20:07.039><c> of</c><00:20:07.120><c> their</c><00:20:07.200><c> PRs</c><00:20:07.600><c> are</c>

even though none of their PRs are accepted.<00:20:08.960><c> And</c><00:20:09.120><c> the</c><00:20:09.360><c> great</c><00:20:09.600><c> ones</c><00:20:10.000><c> literally</c> accepted. And the great ones literally can<00:20:11.360><c> run</c><00:20:11.840><c> 10</c><00:20:12.080><c> or</c><00:20:12.320><c> 20</c><00:20:12.559><c> agents</c><00:20:12.960><c> 24/7.</c> can run 10 or 20 agents 24/7. I<00:20:14.960><c> mean,</c><00:20:15.039><c> if</c><00:20:15.280><c> you</c><00:20:15.360><c> talk</c><00:20:15.520><c> to</c><00:20:15.679><c> the</c><00:20:15.919><c> best</c>

I mean, if you talk to the best developers<00:20:16.720><c> now</c><00:20:16.880><c> that</c><00:20:17.120><c> are</c><00:20:17.360><c> AI</c><00:20:17.679><c> pilled,</c><00:20:18.000><c> and</c><00:20:18.080><c> I</c> developers now that are AI pilled, and I hate<00:20:18.400><c> that</c><00:20:18.559><c> term,</c><00:20:18.960><c> okay,</c><00:20:20.000><c> they</c><00:20:20.320><c> are</c><00:20:20.640><c> coding</c><00:20:21.520><c> 24</c> hate that term, okay, they are coding 24 hours<00:20:22.160><c> a</c><00:20:22.400><c> day</c><00:20:22.559><c> now,</c><00:20:23.200><c> okay?</c><00:20:23.520><c> They</c><00:20:23.760><c> are</c><00:20:24.160><c> because</c>

hours a day now, okay? They are because and<00:20:24.720><c> it's</c><00:20:24.880><c> addictive.</c><00:20:25.280><c> It's</c><00:20:25.520><c> like</c><00:20:25.679><c> video</c> and it's addictive. It's like video games,<00:20:26.400><c> okay?</c><00:20:26.799><c> Because</c><00:20:27.039><c> now</c><00:20:27.200><c> I</c><00:20:27.360><c> can</c><00:20:27.440><c> build</c><00:20:27.600><c> 10</c> games, okay? Because now I can build 10 features,<00:20:28.240><c> 100</c><00:20:28.480><c> features.</c><00:20:28.960><c> Now</c><00:20:29.120><c> I</c><00:20:29.280><c> can</c><00:20:29.360><c> do</c>

features, 100 features. Now I can do things<00:20:29.679><c> I</c><00:20:29.840><c> couldn't</c><00:20:30.240><c> I</c><00:20:30.480><c> can</c><00:20:30.559><c> do</c><00:20:30.720><c> so</c><00:20:30.960><c> quickly.</c> things I couldn't I can do so quickly. So<00:20:31.440><c> I'm</c><00:20:31.760><c> it's</c><00:20:32.159><c> 10:00</c><00:20:32.559><c> at</c><00:20:32.799><c> night.</c><00:20:32.960><c> I'm</c><00:20:33.120><c> checking</c> So I'm it's 10:00 at night. I'm checking instead<00:20:33.679><c> of</c><00:20:33.840><c> instead</c><00:20:34.080><c> of</c><00:20:34.240><c> doom</c><00:20:34.559><c> scrolling,</c>

instead of instead of doom scrolling, I'm<00:20:35.280><c> I'm</c><00:20:35.600><c> doomed</c><00:20:36.000><c> coding,</c><00:20:36.720><c> right?</c><00:20:36.960><c> And</c><00:20:37.120><c> I'm</c> I'm I'm doomed coding, right? And I'm going<00:20:37.440><c> all</c><00:20:37.679><c> night</c><00:20:37.840><c> and</c><00:20:38.000><c> I</c><00:20:38.159><c> wake</c><00:20:38.320><c> up</c><00:20:38.400><c> in</c><00:20:38.559><c> the</c> going all night and I wake up in the morning<00:20:38.880><c> and</c><00:20:38.960><c> I</c><00:20:39.200><c> want</c><00:20:39.280><c> to</c><00:20:39.360><c> check</c><00:20:39.520><c> in</c><00:20:39.679><c> on</c><00:20:39.760><c> that</c>

morning and I want to check in on that workflow<00:20:40.559><c> and</c><00:20:40.799><c> instead</c><00:20:41.039><c> of</c><00:20:41.200><c> checking</c><00:20:41.440><c> in</c><00:20:41.600><c> on</c> workflow and instead of checking in on one<00:20:42.000><c> feature,</c><00:20:42.320><c> what</c><00:20:42.480><c> if</c><00:20:42.640><c> what</c><00:20:42.799><c> if</c><00:20:42.960><c> it</c><00:20:43.039><c> could</c> one feature, what if what if it could have<00:20:43.280><c> built</c><00:20:43.520><c> all</c><00:20:43.679><c> my</c><00:20:43.840><c> features,</c><00:20:44.720><c> right?</c><00:20:45.039><c> And</c>

have built all my features, right? And so<00:20:45.919><c> I</c><00:20:46.159><c> don't</c><00:20:46.320><c> know</c><00:20:46.480><c> any</c><00:20:47.360><c> and</c><00:20:47.520><c> again</c><00:20:47.760><c> I</c><00:20:47.840><c> hate</c><00:20:47.919><c> the</c> so I don't know any and again I hate the term,<00:20:48.240><c> I</c><00:20:48.400><c> don't</c><00:20:48.480><c> know</c><00:20:48.559><c> any</c><00:20:48.799><c> AI</c><00:20:49.360><c> developer</c><00:20:49.760><c> that</c> term, I don't know any AI developer that

couldn't<00:20:50.159><c> consume</c><00:20:50.559><c> even</c><00:20:50.880><c> more</c><00:20:51.360><c> frontier</c> couldn't consume even more frontier level<00:20:52.159><c> tokens.</c><00:20:52.640><c> We</c><00:20:52.960><c> just</c><00:20:53.200><c> want</c><00:20:53.360><c> more,</c><00:20:54.480><c> right?</c> level tokens. We just want more, right? It<00:20:54.880><c> you</c><00:20:55.039><c> can</c><00:20:55.200><c> do</c><00:20:55.360><c> and</c><00:20:55.520><c> nothing</c><00:20:55.840><c> else.</c><00:20:56.400><c> You</c><00:20:56.640><c> can</c>

It you can do and nothing else. You can do<00:20:56.960><c> more</c><00:20:57.280><c> prime</c><00:20:57.840><c> versions</c><00:20:58.480><c> of</c><00:20:58.720><c> whatever</c> do more prime versions of whatever you're<00:20:59.360><c> working</c><00:20:59.520><c> on.</c><00:20:59.840><c> You</c><00:20:59.919><c> can</c><00:21:00.000><c> just</c><00:21:00.159><c> do</c><00:21:00.320><c> more</c> you're working on. You can just do more versions.<00:21:00.880><c> It</c><00:21:01.039><c> saves</c><00:21:01.280><c> you</c><00:21:01.440><c> time</c><00:21:01.919><c> and</c><00:21:02.159><c> it's</c>

versions. It saves you time and it's much<00:21:02.720><c> better.</c><00:21:03.440><c> Why</c><00:21:03.600><c> do</c><00:21:03.760><c> I</c><00:21:03.919><c> have</c><00:21:04.000><c> to</c><00:21:04.080><c> choose</c><00:21:04.320><c> A,</c> much better. Why do I have to choose A, B<00:21:04.720><c> or</c><00:21:04.880><c> C?</c><00:21:05.200><c> Just</c><00:21:05.360><c> build</c><00:21:05.520><c> them</c><00:21:05.760><c> all</c><00:21:06.720><c> and</c><00:21:07.039><c> oh</c><00:21:07.280><c> look,</c>

B or C? Just build them all and oh look, right?<00:21:07.760><c> And</c><00:21:07.840><c> then</c><00:21:08.000><c> build</c><00:21:08.240><c> A</c><00:21:08.480><c> prime,</c><00:21:08.720><c> B</c><00:21:08.880><c> prime,</c> right? And then build A prime, B prime, and<00:21:09.200><c> C</c><00:21:09.440><c> prime,</c><00:21:09.840><c> right?</c><00:21:10.480><c> And</c><00:21:10.640><c> then</c><00:21:10.880><c> let's</c> and C prime, right? And then let's actually<00:21:11.520><c> go</c><00:21:11.760><c> further.</c><00:21:12.159><c> Let's</c><00:21:12.400><c> put</c><00:21:12.559><c> them</c><00:21:12.720><c> all</c>

actually go further. Let's put them all up<00:21:13.039><c> on</c><00:21:13.200><c> on</c><00:21:13.520><c> production</c><00:21:13.919><c> on</c><00:21:14.159><c> staging</c><00:21:14.559><c> or</c><00:21:14.720><c> the</c> up on on production on staging or the dev<00:21:15.120><c> server.</c><00:21:15.440><c> Let's</c><00:21:15.520><c> see</c><00:21:15.600><c> how</c><00:21:15.760><c> they</c><00:21:15.919><c> all</c><00:21:16.159><c> work.</c> dev server. Let's see how they all work. You<00:21:16.720><c> know</c><00:21:16.720><c> what?</c><00:21:17.039><c> Let's</c><00:21:17.200><c> go</c><00:21:17.360><c> further.</c><00:21:17.760><c> Let's</c>

You know what? Let's go further. Let's run<00:21:18.240><c> a</c><00:21:18.480><c> million</c><00:21:18.799><c> test</c><00:21:19.120><c> cases</c><00:21:19.520><c> against</c><00:21:19.760><c> it,</c> run a million test cases against it, right?<00:21:20.799><c> Oh,</c><00:21:21.120><c> well</c><00:21:21.360><c> that</c><00:21:21.520><c> will</c><00:21:21.679><c> cost</c><00:21:22.080><c> $20,000</c> right? Oh, well that will cost $20,000 in<00:21:23.039><c> tokens.</c><00:21:23.440><c> Okay,</c><00:21:23.600><c> well</c><00:21:23.760><c> I</c><00:21:23.919><c> won't.</c><00:21:24.080><c> I'll</c>

in tokens. Okay, well I won't. I'll narrow<00:21:24.559><c> down</c><00:21:24.640><c> the</c><00:21:24.960><c> what</c><00:21:25.120><c> what</c><00:21:25.280><c> if</c><00:21:25.440><c> it</c><00:21:25.679><c> what</c><00:21:25.840><c> if</c> narrow down the what what if it what if I<00:21:26.159><c> could?</c><00:21:26.400><c> It</c><00:21:26.559><c> would</c><00:21:26.640><c> be</c><00:21:26.799><c> better</c><00:21:26.960><c> coverage,</c> I could? It would be better coverage, right?<00:21:27.679><c> You</c><00:21:27.840><c> can</c><00:21:28.000><c> consume</c><00:21:28.720><c> any</c><00:21:29.039><c> top</c><00:21:29.280><c> tier</c>

right? You can consume any top tier developer<00:21:29.919><c> can</c><00:21:30.159><c> consume</c><00:21:30.400><c> an</c><00:21:30.559><c> order</c><00:21:30.799><c> of</c> developer can consume an order of magnitude<00:21:31.360><c> more</c><00:21:31.520><c> tokens</c><00:21:31.840><c> than</c><00:21:31.919><c> they</c><00:21:32.080><c> are</c><00:21:32.159><c> now.</c> magnitude more tokens than they are now. They<00:21:32.559><c> they</c><00:21:33.200><c> the</c><00:21:33.200><c> the</c><00:21:33.360><c> ideas</c><00:21:33.679><c> are</c><00:21:33.840><c> limitless.</c>

They they the the ideas are limitless. Agreed.<00:21:35.760><c> And</c><00:21:35.919><c> I</c><00:21:36.080><c> I</c><00:21:36.320><c> think</c><00:21:36.480><c> I</c><00:21:36.640><c> want</c><00:21:36.720><c> to</c><00:21:36.799><c> stay</c><00:21:37.039><c> on</c> Agreed. And I I think I want to stay on this<00:21:37.280><c> one</c><00:21:37.440><c> for</c><00:21:37.600><c> a</c><00:21:37.679><c> while</c><00:21:38.240><c> because</c><00:21:39.280><c> I</c><00:21:39.520><c> think</c> this one for a while because I think

what's<00:21:39.840><c> interesting</c><00:21:40.159><c> about</c><00:21:40.320><c> that,</c><00:21:40.559><c> Jason,</c> what's interesting about that, Jason, there's<00:21:41.360><c> never</c><00:21:41.600><c> been</c><00:21:41.760><c> a</c><00:21:41.919><c> pro</c><00:21:42.080><c> and</c><00:21:42.240><c> this</c><00:21:42.320><c> is</c><00:21:42.400><c> why</c> there's never been a pro and this is why this<00:21:42.720><c> is</c><00:21:42.799><c> the</c><00:21:42.960><c> management</c><00:21:43.360><c> challenge.</c>

this is the management challenge. There's<00:21:44.480><c> never</c><00:21:44.880><c> been</c><00:21:45.120><c> this</c><00:21:45.520><c> product</c><00:21:45.919><c> before</c> There's never been this product before which<00:21:46.720><c> on</c><00:21:46.880><c> a</c><00:21:47.039><c> totally</c> which on a totally on<00:21:48.880><c> demand</c><00:21:49.360><c> basis</c><00:21:50.159><c> can</c><00:21:50.480><c> allow</c><00:21:51.039><c> for</c><00:21:51.440><c> and</c><00:21:51.600><c> for</c><00:21:51.840><c> an</c>

on demand basis can allow for and for an individual<00:21:52.480><c> worker</c><00:21:52.799><c> with</c><00:21:53.120><c> no</c><00:21:53.440><c> cost</c><00:21:53.679><c> to</c><00:21:53.919><c> them</c> individual worker with no cost to them can<00:21:54.799><c> basically</c><00:21:55.440><c> do</c><00:21:55.679><c> their</c><00:21:56.000><c> work</c><00:21:56.240><c> for</c><00:21:56.480><c> them</c><00:21:56.720><c> and</c> can basically do their work for them and make<00:21:57.120><c> them</c><00:21:57.280><c> look</c><00:21:57.520><c> amazing</c><00:21:58.400><c> right</c><00:21:58.720><c> yet</c><00:21:59.039><c> the</c>

make them look amazing right yet the company's<00:21:59.440><c> earning</c><00:21:59.760><c> 100</c><00:22:00.240><c> if</c><00:22:00.320><c> you</c><00:22:00.480><c> think</c><00:22:00.640><c> about</c> company's earning 100 if you think about it<00:22:01.120><c> if</c><00:22:01.280><c> you're</c><00:22:01.440><c> a</c><00:22:01.600><c> developer</c><00:22:02.000><c> and</c><00:22:02.080><c> you're</c> it if you're a developer and you're sitting<00:22:02.400><c> there</c><00:22:02.559><c> going</c><00:22:02.799><c> I</c><00:22:02.960><c> could</c><00:22:03.039><c> crank</c><00:22:03.360><c> this</c>

sitting there going I could crank this thing<00:22:03.679><c> for</c><00:22:03.840><c> the</c><00:22:03.919><c> next</c><00:22:04.080><c> two</c><00:22:04.240><c> weeks</c><00:22:04.480><c> myself</c><00:22:04.960><c> or</c><00:22:05.120><c> I</c> thing for the next two weeks myself or I can<00:22:05.440><c> press</c><00:22:05.600><c> the</c><00:22:05.760><c> magic</c><00:22:06.080><c> button</c><00:22:06.880><c> and</c><00:22:07.280><c> somewhere</c> can press the magic button and somewhere out<00:22:07.760><c> there</c><00:22:08.000><c> a</c><00:22:08.159><c> whole</c><00:22:08.320><c> bunch</c><00:22:08.400><c> of</c><00:22:08.559><c> expense</c><00:22:08.799><c> would</c>

out there a whole bunch of expense would acrew<00:22:09.280><c> to</c><00:22:09.440><c> my</c><00:22:09.520><c> company</c><00:22:09.760><c> but</c><00:22:09.919><c> it's</c><00:22:10.080><c> not</c><00:22:10.240><c> been</c> acrew to my company but it's not been taxed<00:22:10.720><c> on</c><00:22:10.880><c> me</c><00:22:11.520><c> and</c><00:22:11.760><c> it</c><00:22:11.919><c> can</c><00:22:12.000><c> get</c><00:22:12.159><c> me</c><00:22:12.240><c> a</c><00:22:12.400><c> long</c><00:22:12.559><c> way</c>

taxed on me and it can get me a long way down.<00:22:13.039><c> I'm</c><00:22:13.200><c> going</c><00:22:13.280><c> to</c><00:22:13.440><c> do</c><00:22:13.520><c> that</c><00:22:13.840><c> if</c><00:22:14.159><c> I'm</c><00:22:14.320><c> an</c> down. I'm going to do that if I'm an intern.<00:22:14.880><c> I</c><00:22:15.039><c> mean,</c><00:22:15.280><c> you</c><00:22:15.520><c> know,</c><00:22:15.919><c> summarizing</c> intern. I mean, you know, summarizing references<00:22:16.960><c> in</c><00:22:17.200><c> our</c><00:22:17.360><c> shop</c><00:22:17.600><c> this</c><00:22:17.840><c> morning.</c><00:22:18.159><c> I'm</c>

references in our shop this morning. I'm going<00:22:18.400><c> to</c><00:22:18.480><c> get</c><00:22:18.640><c> the</c><00:22:18.880><c> the</c><00:22:19.120><c> magic</c><00:22:19.440><c> claw</c><00:22:19.760><c> summary,</c> going to get the the magic claw summary, right?<00:22:20.320><c> And</c><00:22:20.559><c> why</c><00:22:20.720><c> not,</c><00:22:21.200><c> right?</c><00:22:21.679><c> And</c><00:22:21.840><c> to</c><00:22:22.000><c> be</c> right? And why not, right? And to be clear,<00:22:23.280><c> sometimes</c><00:22:23.840><c> that's</c><00:22:24.159><c> going</c><00:22:24.320><c> to</c><00:22:24.480><c> be</c>

clear, sometimes that's going to be wildly<00:22:25.120><c> value</c><00:22:25.360><c> accreative</c><00:22:25.919><c> to</c><00:22:26.080><c> the</c><00:22:26.240><c> company</c> wildly value accreative to the company because<00:22:27.039><c> you</c><00:22:27.280><c> saved</c><00:22:27.600><c> an</c><00:22:27.760><c> hour</c><00:22:27.919><c> of</c><00:22:28.080><c> someone's</c> because you saved an hour of someone's time<00:22:28.640><c> that</c><00:22:28.880><c> you're</c><00:22:29.039><c> paying,</c><00:22:29.520><c> you</c><00:22:29.679><c> know,</c><00:22:29.840><c> 500</c>

time that you're paying, you know, 500 bucks<00:22:30.480><c> and</c><00:22:30.559><c> you</c><00:22:30.720><c> paid</c><00:22:30.960><c> 20</c><00:22:31.120><c> bucks.</c><00:22:31.360><c> You're</c> bucks and you paid 20 bucks. You're ecstatic<00:22:32.000><c> they</c><00:22:32.240><c> did</c><00:22:32.400><c> that.</c><00:22:32.960><c> But</c><00:22:33.120><c> as</c><00:22:33.280><c> Jason</c> ecstatic they did that. But as Jason points<00:22:33.919><c> out,</c><00:22:34.159><c> if</c><00:22:34.400><c> there's</c><00:22:34.640><c> no</c><00:22:35.039><c> governor</c><00:22:35.440><c> on</c>

points out, if there's no governor on that,<00:22:36.400><c> eventually</c><00:22:36.799><c> you're</c><00:22:36.880><c> going</c><00:22:36.960><c> to</c><00:22:37.039><c> hit</c><00:22:37.200><c> the</c> that, eventually you're going to hit the moment<00:22:37.520><c> where</c><00:22:37.679><c> you</c><00:22:37.840><c> spend</c><00:22:38.159><c> 600</c><00:22:38.559><c> bucks</c><00:22:38.799><c> to</c><00:22:39.039><c> save</c> moment where you spend 600 bucks to save 500<00:22:39.840><c> bucks.</c><00:22:40.559><c> And</c><00:22:40.799><c> it's</c><00:22:41.200><c> and</c><00:22:41.600><c> all</c><00:22:42.000><c> what's</c><00:22:42.320><c> going</c>

500 bucks. And it's and all what's going on<00:22:42.640><c> right</c><00:22:42.799><c> now</c><00:22:42.880><c> is</c><00:22:43.120><c> how</c><00:22:43.200><c> do</c><00:22:43.360><c> people</c><00:22:43.520><c> get</c><00:22:43.600><c> to</c> on right now is how do people get to grips<00:22:43.919><c> with</c><00:22:44.080><c> that?</c> grips with that? >> Yeah.<00:22:46.080><c> Yeah.</c><00:22:46.240><c> Let</c><00:22:46.400><c> me</c><00:22:46.480><c> just</c><00:22:46.640><c> I</c><00:22:46.799><c> I</c><00:22:47.039><c> sort</c><00:22:47.120><c> of</c><00:22:47.200><c> hit,</c>

>> Yeah. Yeah. Let me just I I sort of hit, but<00:22:47.520><c> let</c><00:22:47.679><c> me</c><00:22:47.679><c> just</c><00:22:47.840><c> give</c><00:22:47.919><c> you</c><00:22:48.000><c> a</c><00:22:48.240><c> simple</c><00:22:48.559><c> even</c> but let me just give you a simple even if<00:22:48.880><c> it's</c><00:22:49.039><c> very</c><00:22:49.200><c> based.</c><00:22:49.440><c> I</c><00:22:49.600><c> know</c><00:22:49.679><c> some</c><00:22:49.840><c> folks</c> if it's very based. I know some folks

will<00:22:50.159><c> make</c><00:22:50.240><c> fun</c><00:22:50.400><c> of</c><00:22:50.480><c> me</c><00:22:50.640><c> that</c><00:22:50.880><c> watch</c><00:22:51.039><c> this,</c> will make fun of me that watch this, right?<00:22:51.600><c> Or</c><00:22:51.840><c> listen</c><00:22:52.080><c> to</c><00:22:52.159><c> it,</c><00:22:52.400><c> but</c><00:22:52.880><c> it</c><00:22:53.120><c> took</c><00:22:53.280><c> me</c><00:22:53.360><c> a</c> right? Or listen to it, but it took me a while.<00:22:53.600><c> Now</c><00:22:53.760><c> I'm</c><00:22:53.919><c> all</c><00:22:54.080><c> in</c><00:22:54.240><c> on</c><00:22:54.400><c> Cloud</c><00:22:54.640><c> Design.</c>

while. Now I'm all in on Cloud Design. It<00:22:55.200><c> got</c><00:22:55.360><c> really</c><00:22:55.520><c> good.</c><00:22:55.840><c> Okay.</c><00:22:56.080><c> It</c><00:22:56.240><c> took</c><00:22:56.480><c> me</c><00:22:56.559><c> for</c> It got really good. Okay. It took me for a<00:22:56.799><c> while</c><00:22:56.960><c> when</c><00:22:57.120><c> it</c><00:22:57.280><c> launched.</c><00:22:57.600><c> I</c><00:22:57.760><c> I</c><00:22:57.919><c> wasn't</c> a while when it launched. I I wasn't

sure<00:22:58.240><c> if</c><00:22:58.320><c> it</c><00:22:58.480><c> was</c><00:22:58.559><c> a</c><00:22:58.720><c> play</c><00:22:58.960><c> feature.</c><00:22:59.280><c> I</c><00:22:59.520><c> love</c><00:22:59.679><c> it</c> sure if it was a play feature. I love it now.<00:23:00.320><c> I</c><00:23:00.559><c> think</c><00:23:00.720><c> it's</c><00:23:00.960><c> gotten</c><00:23:01.200><c> better,</c><00:23:01.840><c> but</c><00:23:02.159><c> as</c> now. I think it's gotten better, but as folks<00:23:02.640><c> said,</c><00:23:02.799><c> and</c><00:23:02.960><c> it</c><00:23:03.120><c> took</c><00:23:03.280><c> me</c><00:23:03.360><c> a</c><00:23:03.440><c> while</c><00:23:03.520><c> to</c>

folks said, and it took me a while to get<00:23:03.760><c> it,</c><00:23:04.000><c> it</c><00:23:04.159><c> consumes</c><00:23:04.720><c> more</c><00:23:05.039><c> tokens</c><00:23:05.440><c> than</c> get it, it consumes more tokens than anything<00:23:05.919><c> else</c><00:23:06.159><c> I</c><00:23:06.400><c> do.</c><00:23:06.720><c> It</c><00:23:06.880><c> is</c><00:23:07.039><c> massive.</c><00:23:07.840><c> Okay.</c> anything else I do. It is massive. Okay. And<00:23:08.640><c> so</c><00:23:08.880><c> yesterday</c><00:23:09.280><c> for</c><00:23:09.520><c> my</c><00:23:09.760><c> first</c><00:23:10.080><c> message,</c>

And so yesterday for my first message, I'm<00:23:10.559><c> do</c><00:23:10.720><c> I'm</c><00:23:10.960><c> like</c><00:23:11.120><c> five</c><00:23:11.280><c> minutes</c><00:23:11.440><c> in.</c><00:23:11.679><c> It's</c> I'm do I'm like five minutes in. It's like<00:23:11.919><c> you</c><00:23:12.080><c> got</c><00:23:12.159><c> to</c><00:23:12.240><c> wait</c><00:23:12.400><c> till</c><00:23:12.559><c> 3</c><00:23:12.880><c> p.m.</c><00:23:13.120><c> Jason.</c> like you got to wait till 3 p.m. Jason.

Uh<00:23:14.559><c> you</c><00:23:14.720><c> got</c><00:23:14.880><c> to</c><00:23:14.960><c> wait</c><00:23:15.120><c> till</c><00:23:15.280><c> 3</c><00:23:15.520><c> p.m.</c><00:23:15.679><c> to</c><00:23:15.840><c> use</c> Uh you got to wait till 3 p.m. to use your<00:23:16.159><c> credits.</c><00:23:16.720><c> And</c><00:23:16.880><c> that's</c><00:23:17.200><c> to</c><00:23:17.440><c> do</c><00:23:18.000><c> one</c> your credits. And that's to do one basically<00:23:19.360><c> redesign</c><00:23:20.559><c> one</c><00:23:20.880><c> page</c><00:23:21.360><c> in</c><00:23:21.600><c> essence</c>

basically redesign one page in essence because<00:23:22.080><c> it</c><00:23:22.240><c> uses</c><00:23:22.559><c> so</c><00:23:22.799><c> many.</c><00:23:23.360><c> What</c><00:23:23.520><c> I</c><00:23:23.760><c> would</c> because it uses so many. What I would love<00:23:24.080><c> to</c><00:23:24.240><c> do</c><00:23:24.400><c> instead,</c><00:23:24.880><c> imagine</c><00:23:25.280><c> this.</c><00:23:25.760><c> Here's</c> love to do instead, imagine this. Here's my<00:23:26.320><c> entire</c><00:23:26.640><c> website</c><00:23:27.039><c> for</c><00:23:27.280><c> any</c><00:23:27.520><c> product.</c><00:23:27.919><c> Okay,</c>

my entire website for any product. Okay, it's<00:23:28.480><c> a</c><00:23:28.640><c> 100</c><00:23:28.880><c> pages,</c><00:23:29.360><c> whatever</c><00:23:29.679><c> it</c><00:23:29.840><c> is.</c><00:23:30.480><c> Every</c> it's a 100 pages, whatever it is. Every night<00:23:31.120><c> come</c><00:23:31.360><c> up</c><00:23:31.440><c> with</c><00:23:31.679><c> better</c><00:23:31.919><c> versions</c><00:23:33.200><c> every</c> night come up with better versions every night.<00:23:33.679><c> So,</c><00:23:33.840><c> I'll</c><00:23:34.000><c> wake</c><00:23:34.159><c> up</c><00:23:34.240><c> in</c><00:23:34.400><c> the</c><00:23:34.480><c> morning</c>

night. So, I'll wake up in the morning and<00:23:34.880><c> I'll</c><00:23:35.039><c> and</c><00:23:35.280><c> I'll</c><00:23:35.440><c> and</c><00:23:35.600><c> I'll</c><00:23:35.840><c> doomclick</c> and I'll and I'll and I'll doomclick through<00:23:37.120><c> your</c><00:23:37.360><c> ideas</c><00:23:37.679><c> from</c><00:23:37.919><c> my</c><00:23:38.159><c> website</c><00:23:38.400><c> and</c> through your ideas from my website and I'll<00:23:38.799><c> pick</c><00:23:38.960><c> the</c><00:23:39.120><c> two</c><00:23:39.280><c> or</c><00:23:39.440><c> three</c><00:23:39.520><c> of</c><00:23:39.679><c> the</c>

I'll pick the two or three of the hundred<00:23:40.000><c> that</c><00:23:40.240><c> are</c><00:23:40.400><c> better</c><00:23:40.960><c> instead</c><00:23:41.280><c> of</c> hundred that are better instead of burning<00:23:41.919><c> like</c><00:23:42.159><c> think</c><00:23:42.320><c> about</c><00:23:42.480><c> it.</c><00:23:42.640><c> I</c><00:23:42.799><c> burnt</c> burning like think about it. I burnt through<00:23:43.200><c> my</c><00:23:43.360><c> tokens</c><00:23:43.679><c> in</c><00:23:44.400><c> 20</c><00:23:44.640><c> minutes</c><00:23:44.960><c> building</c>

through my tokens in 20 minutes building one<00:23:45.440><c> page.</c><00:23:45.760><c> How</c><00:23:45.919><c> many</c><00:23:46.000><c> tokens</c><00:23:46.320><c> would</c><00:23:46.559><c> it</c> one page. How many tokens would it create<00:23:47.200><c> for</c><00:23:47.440><c> every</c><00:23:47.840><c> night</c><00:23:48.240><c> to</c><00:23:48.480><c> redo</c><00:23:48.799><c> a</c> create for every night to redo a hundred,<00:23:49.440><c> right?</c><00:23:49.840><c> Help</c><00:23:50.000><c> me</c><00:23:50.159><c> with</c><00:23:50.240><c> the</c><00:23:50.400><c> math,</c>

hundred, right? Help me with the math, Rory.<00:23:51.039><c> It's</c><00:23:51.200><c> a</c><00:23:51.280><c> lot</c><00:23:51.360><c> of</c><00:23:51.520><c> it's</c><00:23:51.679><c> it's</c><00:23:52.080><c> orders</c><00:23:52.480><c> of</c> Rory. It's a lot of it's it's orders of magnitude<00:23:53.039><c> more</c><00:23:53.200><c> tokens,</c><00:23:53.760><c> right?</c><00:23:54.466><c> [snorts]</c> magnitude more tokens, right? [snorts] So,<00:23:55.520><c> I</c><00:23:55.760><c> think</c><00:23:55.919><c> literally</c><00:23:56.320><c> every</c><00:23:57.520><c> every</c>

So, I think literally every every product<00:23:58.880><c> person,</c><00:23:59.360><c> every</c><00:23:59.600><c> designer</c><00:24:00.000><c> could</c><00:24:00.320><c> do</c> product person, every designer could do that<00:24:00.640><c> and</c><00:24:00.880><c> consume</c><00:24:01.280><c> hundred</c><00:24:01.840><c> 100x</c><00:24:02.240><c> tokens</c> that and consume hundred 100x tokens they<00:24:02.720><c> do</c><00:24:02.880><c> now.</c><00:24:03.280><c> easily</c><00:24:03.679><c> without</c><00:24:03.919><c> even</c>

they do now. easily without even blinking. >> Does<00:24:04.960><c> it</c><00:24:05.200><c> change</c><00:24:05.440><c> your</c><00:24:05.679><c> Figma</c><00:24:06.159><c> usage?</c><00:24:07.120><c> I'm</c><00:24:07.440><c> not</c> >> Does it change your Figma usage? I'm not what<00:24:08.000><c> what</c><00:24:08.320><c> listen</c><00:24:08.640><c> clear</c><00:24:08.960><c> I</c><00:24:09.120><c> don't</c><00:24:09.280><c> I</c><00:24:09.520><c> don't</c> what what listen clear I don't I don't

think<00:24:10.000><c> so</c><00:24:10.320><c> but</c><00:24:10.720><c> what</c><00:24:10.960><c> I</c><00:24:11.120><c> think</c><00:24:11.600><c> not</c><00:24:11.840><c> to</c><00:24:11.919><c> go</c><00:24:12.080><c> down</c> think so but what I think not to go down a<00:24:12.320><c> rat</c><00:24:12.480><c> hole</c><00:24:12.720><c> what</c><00:24:12.880><c> I</c><00:24:13.039><c> what</c><00:24:13.279><c> I</c><00:24:13.600><c> what</c><00:24:13.840><c> I</c><00:24:13.919><c> do</c><00:24:14.080><c> think</c>

a rat hole what I what I what I do think claude<00:24:14.640><c> design</c><00:24:14.880><c> if</c><00:24:15.039><c> they</c><00:24:15.200><c> keep</c><00:24:15.360><c> investing</c><00:24:15.760><c> in</c> claude design if they keep investing in it<00:24:16.080><c> like</c><00:24:16.240><c> they</c><00:24:16.480><c> have</c><00:24:16.640><c> and</c><00:24:16.880><c> we</c><00:24:17.120><c> could</c><00:24:17.200><c> figure</c> it like they have and we could figure out<00:24:17.520><c> the</c><00:24:17.679><c> the</c><00:24:18.000><c> consump</c><00:24:18.400><c> the</c><00:24:18.640><c> massive</c><00:24:19.039><c> token</c>

out the the consump the massive token consumption<00:24:20.640><c> is</c><00:24:21.039><c> that</c><00:24:21.919><c> like</c><00:24:22.159><c> a</c><00:24:22.400><c> lot</c><00:24:22.559><c> of</c><00:24:22.799><c> like</c> consumption is that like a lot of like you<00:24:23.279><c> can</c><00:24:23.440><c> get</c><00:24:23.760><c> further</c><00:24:24.159><c> without</c><00:24:24.480><c> a</c><00:24:24.720><c> designer</c> you can get further without a designer or<00:24:25.919><c> you</c><00:24:26.080><c> can</c><00:24:26.159><c> get</c><00:24:26.400><c> further</c><00:24:26.720><c> with</c><00:24:26.960><c> half</c><00:24:27.200><c> a</c>

or you can get further with half a designer<00:24:27.840><c> or</c><00:24:28.400><c> an</c><00:24:28.640><c> outsourced</c><00:24:29.120><c> designer</c><00:24:29.600><c> or</c> designer or an outsourced designer or something<00:24:30.559><c> because</c><00:24:30.880><c> you</c><00:24:31.039><c> can</c><00:24:31.200><c> build</c><00:24:31.440><c> your</c> something because you can build your whole<00:24:31.919><c> design</c><00:24:32.240><c> schema</c><00:24:32.720><c> and</c><00:24:32.960><c> build</c><00:24:33.760><c> people</c><00:24:34.159><c> are</c>

whole design schema and build people are you're<00:24:34.480><c> going</c><00:24:34.559><c> to</c><00:24:34.640><c> make</c><00:24:34.799><c> fun</c><00:24:34.960><c> of</c><00:24:35.039><c> it.</c><00:24:35.279><c> You</c><00:24:35.440><c> can</c> you're going to make fun of it. You can still<00:24:35.760><c> smell</c><00:24:36.000><c> a</c><00:24:36.159><c> design,</c><00:24:36.480><c> a</c><00:24:36.640><c> claw</c><00:24:36.960><c> design</c><00:24:37.279><c> app.</c> still smell a design, a claw design app.

You<00:24:37.760><c> can</c><00:24:37.840><c> see</c><00:24:38.000><c> the</c><00:24:38.159><c> elements,</c><00:24:38.960><c> but</c><00:24:39.279><c> you</c><00:24:39.520><c> can</c> You can see the elements, but you can get<00:24:40.080><c> pretty</c><00:24:40.720><c> damn</c><00:24:41.120><c> far.</c><00:24:41.520><c> It's</c><00:24:41.760><c> pretty</c><00:24:42.159><c> smart</c> get pretty damn far. It's pretty smart on<00:24:42.720><c> the</c><00:24:42.960><c> product</c><00:24:43.360><c> side</c><00:24:43.760><c> of</c><00:24:44.080><c> how</c><00:24:44.240><c> to</c><00:24:44.400><c> do</c><00:24:44.559><c> it.</c><00:24:45.279><c> And</c>

on the product side of how to do it. And so<00:24:45.679><c> it</c><00:24:45.919><c> doesn't</c><00:24:46.080><c> mean</c><00:24:46.240><c> you</c><00:24:46.400><c> don't</c><00:24:46.559><c> need</c><00:24:46.640><c> a</c> so it doesn't mean you don't need a designer,<00:24:47.520><c> but</c><00:24:48.159><c> it</c><00:24:48.320><c> it</c><00:24:48.799><c> may</c><00:24:48.960><c> mean</c><00:24:49.279><c> that</c><00:24:49.760><c> we</c><00:24:49.919><c> we</c> designer, but it it may mean that we we

don't<00:24:50.559><c> need</c><00:24:50.720><c> that</c><00:24:51.039><c> crappy</c><00:24:51.520><c> designer</c><00:24:52.000><c> anymore</c> don't need that crappy designer anymore to<00:24:53.200><c> get</c><00:24:53.360><c> us</c><00:24:53.600><c> to</c><00:24:53.919><c> a</c><00:24:54.240><c> V1,</c><00:24:54.799><c> right?</c><00:24:55.039><c> There's</c><00:24:55.200><c> just</c> to get us to a V1, right? There's just there's<00:24:55.600><c> just</c><00:24:55.760><c> no</c><00:24:56.000><c> need</c><00:24:56.240><c> to</c><00:24:56.400><c> have</c><00:24:56.559><c> a</c><00:24:56.880><c> So,</c><00:24:57.279><c> does</c>

there's just no need to have a So, does that<00:24:57.760><c> harm</c><00:24:58.720><c> Figma?</c><00:24:59.200><c> No.</c><00:24:59.840><c> I</c><00:25:00.159><c> think</c><00:25:00.400><c> I</c><00:25:00.640><c> think</c><00:25:00.720><c> in</c> that harm Figma? No. I think I think in the<00:25:01.039><c> age</c><00:25:01.200><c> of</c><00:25:01.279><c> AI,</c><00:25:01.760><c> every</c><00:25:02.080><c> time</c><00:25:02.320><c> you</c><00:25:02.559><c> start</c> the age of AI, every time you start

losing<00:25:03.200><c> the</c><00:25:03.440><c> bottom</c><00:25:03.679><c> of</c><00:25:03.840><c> your</c><00:25:04.080><c> market</c><00:25:04.880><c> as</c><00:25:05.039><c> a</c> losing the bottom of your market as a co,<00:25:05.600><c> I'd</c><00:25:05.760><c> be</c><00:25:05.919><c> nervous.</c><00:25:06.400><c> It</c><00:25:06.640><c> won't</c><00:25:06.799><c> show</c><00:25:06.960><c> up</c><00:25:07.039><c> in</c> co, I'd be nervous. It won't show up in that<00:25:07.360><c> quarter's</c><00:25:07.840><c> numbers</c><00:25:08.159><c> because</c><00:25:08.320><c> it's</c><00:25:08.559><c> the</c>

that quarter's numbers because it's the bottom<00:25:08.960><c> of</c><00:25:09.120><c> the</c><00:25:09.279><c> market.</c><00:25:09.520><c> It's</c><00:25:09.600><c> the</c><00:25:09.760><c> ankle</c> bottom of the market. It's the ankle biters.<00:25:10.559><c> Like,</c><00:25:10.960><c> you've</c><00:25:11.200><c> already</c><00:25:11.360><c> gone</c><00:25:11.679><c> up</c> biters. Like, you've already gone up market.<00:25:12.159><c> Figma's</c><00:25:12.640><c> tracking</c><00:25:13.039><c> million-doll</c>

market. Figma's tracking million-doll deals,<00:25:14.000><c> right?</c><00:25:14.240><c> Who</c><00:25:14.400><c> the</c><00:25:14.559><c> hell</c><00:25:14.720><c> cares</c><00:25:15.600><c> to</c><00:25:15.919><c> the</c> deals, right? Who the hell cares to the low-end<00:25:16.799><c> one</c><00:25:17.039><c> seat</c><00:25:17.520><c> deal,</c><00:25:18.000><c> you</c><00:25:18.159><c> know,</c><00:25:18.400><c> it</c><00:25:18.640><c> lost</c> low-end one seat deal, you know, it lost to<00:25:19.120><c> to</c><00:25:19.440><c> Claude</c><00:25:19.760><c> Design.</c><00:25:20.320><c> But</c><00:25:20.559><c> over</c><00:25:20.880><c> time,</c>

to to Claude Design. But over time, those<00:25:21.279><c> ankle</c><00:25:21.600><c> biters</c><00:25:22.000><c> move</c><00:25:22.159><c> up</c><00:25:22.320><c> the</c><00:25:22.480><c> leg.</c><00:25:22.799><c> You</c> those ankle biters move up the leg. You know,<00:25:22.960><c> they're</c><00:25:23.120><c> the</c><00:25:23.279><c> piranhas.</c><00:25:23.760><c> Then</c><00:25:24.080><c> they</c> know, they're the piranhas. Then they take<00:25:24.320><c> over</c><00:25:24.480><c> the</c><00:25:24.640><c> knees</c><00:25:24.880><c> and</c><00:25:25.039><c> the</c><00:25:25.200><c> thighs</c><00:25:25.919><c> and</c>

take over the knees and the thighs and pretty<00:25:26.480><c> soon</c><00:25:26.822><c> [laughter]</c> pretty soon [laughter] pretty<00:25:27.919><c> soon</c><00:25:28.559><c> you</c><00:25:28.720><c> you</c><00:25:29.039><c> like</c><00:25:29.279><c> you</c><00:25:29.440><c> you</c><00:25:29.760><c> retain</c> pretty soon you you like you you retain the<00:25:30.240><c> big</c><00:25:30.480><c> customers</c><00:25:30.960><c> but</c><00:25:31.200><c> you've</c><00:25:31.440><c> lost</c><00:25:31.760><c> a</c>

the big customers but you've lost a portion<00:25:32.640><c> of</c><00:25:32.799><c> of</c><00:25:33.039><c> your</c><00:25:33.279><c> funnel,</c><00:25:33.679><c> right?</c><00:25:33.840><c> If</c><00:25:34.000><c> you</c> portion of of your funnel, right? If you lose<00:25:34.320><c> the</c><00:25:34.480><c> bottom,</c><00:25:34.720><c> you</c><00:25:34.880><c> lost</c><00:25:35.039><c> a</c><00:25:35.200><c> portion</c><00:25:35.360><c> of</c> lose the bottom, you lost a portion of your<00:25:35.520><c> funnel.</c><00:25:35.919><c> They</c><00:25:36.080><c> don't</c><00:25:36.240><c> all</c><00:25:36.480><c> wait</c><00:25:36.720><c> and</c>

your funnel. They don't all wait and say,<00:25:37.440><c> "You</c><00:25:37.760><c> know</c><00:25:37.840><c> what?</c><00:25:38.640><c> I'll</c><00:25:39.039><c> graduate</c><00:25:39.360><c> to</c> say, "You know what? I'll graduate to Figma<00:25:39.919><c> when</c><00:25:40.080><c> I'm</c><00:25:40.240><c> bigger</c><00:25:40.559><c> or</c><00:25:40.799><c> and</c><00:25:41.039><c> this</c><00:25:41.200><c> is</c> Figma when I'm bigger or and this is where<00:25:41.520><c> Salesforce</c><00:25:42.000><c> is</c><00:25:42.159><c> at</c><00:25:42.320><c> risk.</c><00:25:42.640><c> People</c><00:25:42.880><c> like</c>

where Salesforce is at risk. People like I<00:25:43.360><c> love</c><00:25:43.520><c> Salesforce</c><00:25:44.080><c> run</c><00:25:44.240><c> it</c><00:25:44.400><c> headless,</c><00:25:44.960><c> but</c> I love Salesforce run it headless, but the<00:25:45.440><c> next</c><00:25:45.679><c> generation</c><00:25:46.240><c> of</c><00:25:46.480><c> folks</c><00:25:46.720><c> may</c><00:25:46.960><c> not</c> the next generation of folks may not graduate<00:25:47.440><c> to</c><00:25:47.600><c> Salesforce</c><00:25:49.039><c> because</c><00:25:49.360><c> they</c>

graduate to Salesforce because they never<00:25:49.760><c> started</c><00:25:50.000><c> there.</c><00:25:50.400><c> They</c><00:25:50.559><c> started</c> never started there. They started agentically.<00:25:51.840><c> they</c><00:25:52.159><c> may</c><00:25:52.320><c> never</c><00:25:52.480><c> graduate</c> agentically. they may never graduate there.<00:25:53.360><c> If</c><00:25:53.520><c> I'm</c><00:25:53.679><c> a</c><00:25:53.840><c> CEO,</c><00:25:54.320><c> I'm</c><00:25:54.400><c> I'm</c><00:25:54.559><c> at</c><00:25:54.720><c> risk</c>

there. If I'm a CEO, I'm I'm at risk that<00:25:55.200><c> folks</c><00:25:55.440><c> won't</c><00:25:55.679><c> graduate</c><00:25:56.000><c> into</c><00:25:56.240><c> anymore.</c> that folks won't graduate into anymore. Workflow<00:25:57.039><c> tools</c><00:25:57.279><c> are</c><00:25:57.440><c> at</c><00:25:57.600><c> risk</c><00:25:58.080><c> that</c><00:25:58.400><c> even</c><00:25:58.559><c> if</c> Workflow tools are at risk that even if just<00:25:58.960><c> 10%</c><00:25:59.679><c> 20%</c><00:26:00.240><c> less</c><00:26:00.559><c> folks</c><00:26:00.799><c> graduate</c><00:26:01.200><c> into,</c>

just 10% 20% less folks graduate into, it<00:26:02.240><c> leads</c><00:26:02.400><c> to</c><00:26:02.480><c> a</c><00:26:02.640><c> death</c><00:26:02.960><c> spiral</c><00:26:03.360><c> of</c><00:26:03.600><c> slow</c> it leads to a death spiral of slow growth.<00:26:04.400><c> That's</c><00:26:04.559><c> why,</c><00:26:04.799><c> you</c><00:26:04.960><c> know,</c><00:26:05.039><c> for</c><00:26:05.200><c> public</c> growth. That's why, you know, for public companies,<00:26:05.840><c> the</c><00:26:06.000><c> only</c><00:26:06.240><c> thing</c><00:26:06.320><c> that</c><00:26:06.559><c> really</c>

companies, the only thing that really matters<00:26:07.039><c> to</c><00:26:07.279><c> me</c><00:26:07.919><c> is</c><00:26:08.240><c> are</c><00:26:08.559><c> they</c><00:26:08.799><c> growing</c><00:26:09.679><c> um</c><00:26:10.000><c> net</c> matters to me is are they growing um net new<00:26:10.720><c> logos</c><00:26:11.600><c> 15%</c><00:26:12.159><c> or</c><00:26:12.320><c> more</c><00:26:12.480><c> a</c><00:26:12.640><c> year.</c><00:26:12.799><c> If</c><00:26:12.960><c> they</c> new logos 15% or more a year. If they

are,<00:26:13.279><c> they'll</c><00:26:13.520><c> figure</c><00:26:13.679><c> it</c><00:26:13.840><c> out,</c><00:26:14.559><c> right?</c><00:26:14.799><c> if</c> are, they'll figure it out, right? if you're<00:26:15.120><c> growing</c><00:26:15.360><c> your</c><00:26:15.520><c> net</c><00:26:15.679><c> new</c><00:26:15.919><c> customers</c><00:26:16.240><c> 15</c> you're growing your net new customers 15 even<00:26:16.880><c> 20%</c><00:26:17.200><c> a</c><00:26:17.440><c> year</c><00:26:17.919><c> but</c><00:26:18.159><c> as</c><00:26:18.320><c> soon</c><00:26:18.400><c> as</c><00:26:18.559><c> it</c><00:26:18.720><c> falls</c>

even 20% a year but as soon as it falls man<00:26:20.159><c> you</c><00:26:20.400><c> could</c><00:26:20.559><c> I</c><00:26:20.720><c> mean</c><00:26:20.799><c> you</c><00:26:20.960><c> can</c><00:26:21.039><c> raise</c><00:26:21.279><c> price</c> man you could I mean you can raise price every<00:26:21.840><c> year</c><00:26:22.000><c> but</c><00:26:22.240><c> it</c><00:26:22.320><c> only</c><00:26:22.480><c> takes</c><00:26:22.640><c> you</c><00:26:22.799><c> so</c><00:26:22.960><c> far</c> every year but it only takes you so far

so<00:26:23.600><c> Rambly</c><00:26:24.000><c> answer</c><00:26:24.240><c> is</c><00:26:24.400><c> it</c><00:26:24.559><c> does</c><00:26:24.720><c> worry</c><00:26:24.960><c> me</c><00:26:25.120><c> but</c> so Rambly answer is it does worry me but it's<00:26:25.440><c> not</c><00:26:25.520><c> a</c><00:26:25.679><c> threat</c><00:26:25.919><c> to</c><00:26:26.080><c> to</c><00:26:26.559><c> this</c><00:26:26.799><c> sort</c><00:26:26.960><c> of</c> it's not a threat to to this sort of enterprise<00:26:27.600><c> Figma</c><00:26:27.919><c> play</c><00:26:28.159><c> at</c><00:26:28.320><c> all</c><00:26:28.480><c> but</c><00:26:29.679><c> that's</c>

enterprise Figma play at all but that's if<00:26:30.240><c> I</c><00:26:30.400><c> are</c><00:26:30.480><c> building</c><00:26:30.640><c> a</c><00:26:30.799><c> startup</c><00:26:31.120><c> say</c><00:26:31.279><c> that's</c> if I are building a startup say that's right<00:26:31.679><c> start</c> right start >> Roy<00:26:32.720><c> what</c><00:26:32.880><c> point</c><00:26:33.039><c> did</c><00:26:33.279><c> you</c><00:26:33.360><c> think</c><00:26:33.520><c> was</c><00:26:33.760><c> more</c>

>> Roy what point did you think was more interesting<00:26:34.240><c> that</c><00:26:34.480><c> I</c><00:26:34.720><c> didn't</c><00:26:34.880><c> mention</c><00:26:35.200><c> or</c> interesting that I didn't mention or glossed<00:26:35.760><c> over</c><00:26:36.000><c> you</c><00:26:36.240><c> said</c> glossed over you said >> no<00:26:36.720><c> actually</c><00:26:36.960><c> wasn't</c><00:26:37.120><c> the</c><00:26:37.279><c> point</c><00:26:37.440><c> they</c><00:26:37.600><c> made</c>

>> no actually wasn't the point they made it<00:26:38.240><c> just</c><00:26:38.640><c> yeah</c><00:26:38.880><c> I</c><00:26:39.039><c> I'm</c><00:26:39.679><c> kind</c><00:26:39.840><c> of</c><00:26:40.320><c> things</c><00:26:40.559><c> you</c> it just yeah I I'm kind of things you find<00:26:40.960><c> yourself</c><00:26:41.360><c> puzzling</c><00:26:41.840><c> on</c><00:26:42.080><c> as</c><00:26:42.320><c> you</c><00:26:42.480><c> think</c> find yourself puzzling on as you think about<00:26:42.720><c> the</c><00:26:42.960><c> mark</c><00:26:43.279><c> I'm</c><00:26:43.440><c> just</c><00:26:43.600><c> looking</c><00:26:43.840><c> at</c><00:26:44.000><c> the</c>

about the mark I'm just looking at the level<00:26:44.559><c> of</c><00:26:44.720><c> traction</c><00:26:45.360><c> on</c><00:26:45.679><c> these</c><00:26:45.919><c> companies</c> level of traction on these companies right<00:26:46.559><c> now</c><00:26:46.799><c> which</c><00:26:46.960><c> has</c><00:26:47.120><c> just</c><00:26:47.360><c> been</c> right now which has just been astonishing<00:26:48.400><c> right</c><00:26:48.640><c> I</c><00:26:48.880><c> mean</c><00:26:48.960><c> the</c><00:26:49.120><c> entropic</c>

astonishing right I mean the entropic explosion<00:26:50.320><c> to</c><00:26:50.880><c> what</c><00:26:51.120><c> now</c><00:26:51.440><c> might</c><00:26:51.600><c> be</c><00:26:51.840><c> 50</c> explosion to what now might be 50 billion<00:26:52.480><c> from</c><00:26:52.799><c> 9</c><00:26:53.039><c> billion</c><00:26:53.360><c> at</c><00:26:53.600><c> the</c><00:26:53.760><c> start</c><00:26:53.919><c> of</c> billion from 9 billion at the start of the<00:26:54.240><c> year</c><00:26:54.960><c> right</c><00:26:55.760><c> and</c><00:26:56.080><c> you</c><00:26:56.240><c> know</c><00:26:56.880><c> you</c><00:26:57.039><c> know</c><00:26:57.200><c> I</c>

the year right and you know you know I saw<00:26:57.600><c> the</c><00:26:57.760><c> semi</c><00:26:58.080><c> analysis</c><00:26:58.559><c> breakdown</c><00:26:58.960><c> and</c><00:26:59.120><c> yeah</c> saw the semi analysis breakdown and yeah two<00:26:59.600><c> or</c><00:26:59.760><c> three</c><00:27:00.000><c> billion</c><00:27:00.240><c> of</c><00:27:00.400><c> that</c><00:27:00.720><c> is</c> two or three billion of that is quote<00:27:02.880><c> unquote</c><00:27:03.279><c> clawed</c><00:27:03.600><c> code</c><00:27:03.840><c> but</c><00:27:04.000><c> the</c><00:27:04.159><c> real</c>

quote unquote clawed code but the real truth<00:27:04.400><c> is</c><00:27:04.640><c> I</c><00:27:04.799><c> think</c><00:27:04.880><c> a</c><00:27:05.039><c> huge</c><00:27:05.279><c> portion</c><00:27:05.520><c> of</c><00:27:05.679><c> the</c> truth is I think a huge portion of the API<00:27:06.400><c> part</c><00:27:06.640><c> is</c><00:27:06.960><c> code</c><00:27:07.200><c> as</c><00:27:07.440><c> well</c><00:27:08.480><c> right</c><00:27:09.279><c> and</c><00:27:09.520><c> I</c><00:27:09.760><c> you</c>

API part is code as well right and I you I've<00:27:10.159><c> just</c><00:27:10.320><c> been</c><00:27:10.480><c> wondering</c><00:27:10.960><c> you</c><00:27:11.120><c> know</c><00:27:11.279><c> when</c> I've just been wondering you know when something's<00:27:11.919><c> growing</c><00:27:12.159><c> that</c><00:27:12.400><c> quickly</c> something's growing that quickly momentum<00:27:13.520><c> Yeah,</c><00:27:13.919><c> I</c><00:27:14.400><c> say</c><00:27:14.799><c> what</c><00:27:15.120><c> could</c><00:27:15.279><c> cause</c><00:27:15.520><c> it</c>

momentum Yeah, I say what could cause it to<00:27:15.919><c> change</c><00:27:16.240><c> and</c><00:27:16.400><c> I</c><00:27:16.640><c> think</c><00:27:16.720><c> that</c><00:27:16.960><c> you</c><00:27:17.120><c> know</c> to change and I think that you know there's<00:27:17.520><c> really</c><00:27:17.760><c> only</c><00:27:18.080><c> two</c><00:27:18.320><c> things</c><00:27:18.799><c> is</c><00:27:18.960><c> that</c> there's really only two things is that one<00:27:19.760><c> is</c><00:27:20.000><c> mass</c><00:27:20.400><c> competition</c><00:27:20.960><c> which</c><00:27:21.200><c> we've</c><00:27:21.440><c> been</c>

one is mass competition which we've been talking<00:27:21.760><c> about</c><00:27:22.000><c> in</c><00:27:22.159><c> other</c><00:27:22.480><c> if</c><00:27:22.640><c> everybody</c><00:27:22.960><c> dive</c> talking about in other if everybody dive bomb<00:27:23.679><c> the</c><00:27:23.840><c> price</c><00:27:24.799><c> and</c><00:27:25.039><c> it</c><00:27:25.279><c> went</c><00:27:25.520><c> down</c><00:27:25.679><c> by</c><00:27:25.919><c> a</c> bomb the price and it went down by a factor<00:27:26.559><c> of</c><00:27:27.520><c> two</c><00:27:27.760><c> or</c><00:27:27.919><c> three</c><00:27:28.480><c> yeah</c><00:27:28.960><c> 70%</c><00:27:29.440><c> the</c><00:27:29.679><c> kind</c>

factor of two or three yeah 70% the kind of<00:27:29.919><c> the</c><00:27:30.320><c> the</c><00:27:30.400><c> the</c><00:27:30.640><c> the</c><00:27:31.279><c> low-end</c><00:27:31.760><c> token</c><00:27:32.000><c> max</c> of the the the the low-end token max pricing<00:27:32.960><c> you're</c><00:27:33.120><c> seeing</c><00:27:33.360><c> here</c><00:27:34.480><c> is</c><00:27:34.720><c> that</c> pricing you're seeing here is that likely<00:27:35.279><c> and</c><00:27:35.440><c> I</c><00:27:35.600><c> I</c><00:27:35.840><c> don't</c><00:27:35.919><c> know</c><00:27:36.159><c> I</c><00:27:36.400><c> don't</c><00:27:36.480><c> know</c>

likely and I I don't know I don't know if<00:27:36.720><c> that's</c><00:27:36.960><c> going</c><00:27:37.039><c> to</c><00:27:37.200><c> happen</c><00:27:37.679><c> so</c><00:27:37.919><c> then</c><00:27:38.159><c> yeah</c> if that's going to happen so then yeah if<00:27:38.640><c> the</c><00:27:38.799><c> momentum</c><00:27:39.360><c> continues</c><00:27:39.840><c> what's</c><00:27:40.080><c> the</c> if the momentum continues what's the constraint<00:27:40.559><c> and</c><00:27:40.720><c> one</c><00:27:40.799><c> of</c><00:27:40.880><c> the</c><00:27:40.960><c> things</c><00:27:41.039><c> you</c>

constraint and one of the things you figure<00:27:41.360><c> out</c><00:27:41.520><c> in</c><00:27:41.679><c> all</c><00:27:41.840><c> these</c><00:27:42.880><c> kind</c> figure out in all these kind at<00:27:44.000><c> very</c><00:27:44.240><c> late</c><00:27:44.480><c> stage</c><00:27:44.799><c> growth</c><00:27:45.120><c> investing</c><00:27:45.440><c> is</c> at very late stage growth investing is in<00:27:45.840><c> the</c><00:27:45.919><c> end</c><00:27:46.080><c> the</c><00:27:46.240><c> TAM</c><00:27:46.559><c> is</c><00:27:46.799><c> the</c><00:27:46.960><c> is</c><00:27:47.200><c> is</c><00:27:47.279><c> is</c><00:27:47.840><c> the</c>

in the end the TAM is the is is is the criteria<00:27:48.480><c> and</c><00:27:48.640><c> what</c><00:27:48.799><c> has</c><00:27:49.039><c> that</c><00:27:49.120><c> just</c><00:27:49.279><c> been</c><00:27:49.600><c> you</c> criteria and what has that just been you start<00:27:50.080><c> to</c><00:27:50.240><c> look</c><00:27:50.320><c> at</c><00:27:50.480><c> the</c><00:27:50.640><c> dollars</c><00:27:51.039><c> being</c><00:27:51.279><c> spent</c> start to look at the dollars being spent here<00:27:52.559><c> relative</c><00:27:52.960><c> to</c><00:27:53.120><c> the</c><00:27:53.279><c> size</c><00:27:53.520><c> of</c><00:27:53.760><c> software</c>

here relative to the size of software engineering<00:27:55.200><c> and</c><00:27:55.360><c> it's</c><00:27:55.600><c> pretty</c><00:27:55.760><c> huge</c> engineering and it's pretty huge remember<00:27:56.320><c> we</c><00:27:56.559><c> talked</c><00:27:56.720><c> about</c><00:27:56.960><c> is</c><00:27:57.120><c> it</c><00:27:57.279><c> going</c><00:27:57.360><c> to</c> remember we talked about is it going to be<00:27:57.600><c> 20%</c><00:27:58.159><c> of</c><00:27:58.320><c> software</c><00:27:58.720><c> engineering</c><00:27:59.520><c> right</c><00:27:59.760><c> and</c>

be 20% of software engineering right and kind<00:28:00.159><c> of</c><00:28:00.399><c> to</c><00:28:00.559><c> Jason's</c><00:28:00.880><c> thing</c><00:28:01.120><c> right</c><00:28:01.919><c> everyone</c> kind of to Jason's thing right everyone goes<00:28:02.559><c> oh</c><00:28:02.799><c> three</c><00:28:03.120><c> 30</c><00:28:03.760><c> million</c><00:28:04.159><c> developers</c><00:28:04.640><c> it's</c> goes oh three 30 million developers it's all<00:28:05.039><c> fine</c><00:28:05.360><c> if</c><00:28:05.520><c> you</c><00:28:05.600><c> go</c><00:28:05.679><c> to</c><00:28:05.840><c> the</c><00:28:05.919><c> BLS</c><00:28:06.480><c> which</c><00:28:06.559><c> I</c>

all fine if you go to the BLS which I did<00:28:06.880><c> last</c><00:28:07.200><c> weekend</c><00:28:07.440><c> and</c><00:28:07.679><c> say</c><00:28:07.919><c> there</c><00:28:08.080><c> were</c><00:28:08.240><c> only</c> did last weekend and say there were only 1.8<00:28:09.039><c> 8</c><00:28:09.200><c> million</c><00:28:09.440><c> developers</c><00:28:09.919><c> in</c><00:28:10.080><c> the</c><00:28:10.240><c> United</c> 1.8 8 million developers in the United States,<00:28:11.279><c> of</c><00:28:11.440><c> which</c><00:28:11.679><c> only</c><00:28:12.080><c> 200,000</c><00:28:12.880><c> of</c><00:28:13.039><c> them</c>

States, of which only 200,000 of them work<00:28:13.360><c> in</c><00:28:13.600><c> software</c><00:28:14.080><c> companies.</c><00:28:14.559><c> Another</c> work in software companies. Another 600,000 work<00:28:16.799><c> in</c><00:28:17.039><c> tech</c><00:28:17.360><c> companies,</c><00:28:17.679><c> you</c><00:28:17.840><c> know,</c><00:28:18.000><c> HP,</c> work in tech companies, you know, HP, IBM,<00:28:19.679><c> and</c><00:28:19.919><c> a</c><00:28:20.320><c> million</c><00:28:20.559><c> of</c><00:28:20.720><c> them</c><00:28:20.960><c> work</c><00:28:21.200><c> in</c>

IBM, and a million of them work in literally<00:28:22.880><c> JP</c><00:28:23.279><c> Morgan,</c><00:28:23.600><c> BFA,</c><00:28:24.480><c> right?</c><00:28:25.279><c> And</c><00:28:25.520><c> you</c> literally JP Morgan, BFA, right? And you know<00:28:26.320><c> that</c><00:28:26.480><c> that's</c><00:28:26.799><c> a</c><00:28:26.960><c> total</c><00:28:27.360><c> spend</c><00:28:28.480><c> median</c> know that that's a total spend median wage<00:28:29.039><c> is</c><00:28:29.360><c> about</c><00:28:29.760><c> 140k</c><00:28:30.159><c> for</c><00:28:30.320><c> that</c><00:28:30.399><c> rule.</c><00:28:30.880><c> It's</c><00:28:31.039><c> a</c>

wage is about 140k for that rule. It's a total<00:28:31.440><c> spend</c><00:28:31.600><c> of</c><00:28:31.760><c> around</c><00:28:32.000><c> $250</c><00:28:32.480><c> billion,</c> total spend of around $250 billion, right?<00:28:34.799><c> And</c><00:28:35.039><c> if</c><00:28:35.279><c> most</c><00:28:35.520><c> of</c><00:28:35.679><c> this</c><00:28:37.120><c> open</c><00:28:37.520><c> AI</c><00:28:37.919><c> and</c> right? And if most of this open AI and entropic<00:28:38.880><c> enterprise</c><00:28:39.360><c> web</c><00:28:39.520><c> if</c><00:28:39.679><c> a</c><00:28:39.919><c> large</c>

entropic enterprise web if a large percentage<00:28:40.480><c> of</c><00:28:40.559><c> that</c><00:28:40.799><c> is</c><00:28:41.039><c> software</c><00:28:41.919><c> they</c> percentage of that is software they really<00:28:42.399><c> are</c><00:28:42.559><c> close</c><00:28:42.799><c> to</c><00:28:42.960><c> 20%</c><00:28:43.520><c> already.</c> really are close to 20% already. >> They<00:28:44.080><c> already</c><00:28:44.320><c> hit</c><00:28:44.480><c> it.</c> >> They already hit it.

>> Part<00:28:44.960><c> of</c><00:28:45.120><c> me</c><00:28:45.279><c> says</c><00:28:45.440><c> oh</c><00:28:45.600><c> my</c><00:28:45.679><c> god</c><00:28:45.919><c> what's</c> >> Part of me says oh my god what's happening<00:28:46.880><c> because</c><00:28:47.360><c> there</c><00:28:47.600><c> hasn't</c><00:28:47.840><c> been</c><00:28:48.000><c> 20%</c> happening because there hasn't been 20% of<00:28:48.720><c> layouts</c><00:28:48.960><c> for</c><00:28:49.120><c> these</c><00:28:49.279><c> companies.</c><00:28:49.679><c> It's</c>

of layouts for these companies. It's just<00:28:50.159><c> it's</c><00:28:50.480><c> a</c><00:28:50.640><c> huge</c><00:28:51.039><c> my</c><00:28:51.279><c> point</c><00:28:51.440><c> is</c><00:28:51.600><c> this.</c><00:28:52.720><c> It's</c> just it's a huge my point is this. It's a<00:28:53.200><c> huge</c><00:28:53.520><c> number</c><00:28:54.159><c> relative</c><00:28:54.559><c> to</c><00:28:54.720><c> the</c><00:28:55.039><c> total</c> a huge number relative to the total software<00:28:55.840><c> coding</c><00:28:56.240><c> spend</c><00:28:56.480><c> in</c><00:28:56.640><c> the</c><00:28:56.799><c> US.</c><00:28:57.039><c> And</c><00:28:57.200><c> I</c>

software coding spend in the US. And I freely<00:28:57.600><c> admit</c><00:28:57.840><c> I</c><00:28:58.000><c> don't</c><00:28:58.159><c> have</c><00:28:58.240><c> a</c><00:28:58.399><c> conclusion</c> freely admit I don't have a conclusion from<00:28:58.880><c> that.</c><00:28:59.120><c> I'm</c><00:28:59.360><c> looking</c><00:28:59.440><c> at</c><00:28:59.600><c> it</c><00:28:59.760><c> going</c><00:29:00.080><c> hm</c> from that. I'm looking at it going hm right<00:29:01.200><c> is</c><00:29:01.440><c> it</c><00:29:01.679><c> xus</c><00:29:02.240><c> revenue?</c><00:29:02.720><c> I</c><00:29:02.880><c> read</c><00:29:03.039><c> the</c><00:29:03.200><c> semi</c>

right is it xus revenue? I read the semi analysis<00:29:03.919><c> stuff.</c><00:29:04.080><c> I</c><00:29:04.240><c> don't</c><00:29:04.399><c> think</c><00:29:04.480><c> it</c><00:29:04.640><c> is.</c><00:29:05.120><c> I</c> analysis stuff. I don't think it is. I think<00:29:05.440><c> a</c><00:29:05.600><c> lot</c><00:29:05.679><c> of</c><00:29:05.760><c> it</c><00:29:05.919><c> is</c><00:29:06.000><c> in</c><00:29:06.240><c> the</c><00:29:06.320><c> US.</c><00:29:06.640><c> Now,</c> think a lot of it is in the US. Now,

there's<00:29:07.039><c> some</c><00:29:08.000><c> purchasing</c><00:29:08.480><c> in</c><00:29:08.640><c> the</c><00:29:08.799><c> US</c><00:29:09.039><c> for</c> there's some purchasing in the US for use<00:29:09.520><c> in</c><00:29:09.679><c> overseas,</c><00:29:10.240><c> but</c><00:29:10.480><c> it's</c><00:29:10.799><c> it's</c><00:29:11.200><c> just</c><00:29:11.360><c> a</c> use in overseas, but it's it's just a it's<00:29:12.000><c> an</c><00:29:12.240><c> astonishingly</c><00:29:13.120><c> high</c><00:29:13.440><c> number</c>

it's an astonishingly high number relative<00:29:16.000><c> even</c><00:29:16.240><c> to</c><00:29:16.399><c> the</c><00:29:16.640><c> biggest</c><00:29:16.960><c> number</c><00:29:17.200><c> you</c> relative even to the biggest number you can<00:29:17.520><c> think</c><00:29:17.600><c> of,</c><00:29:17.840><c> which</c><00:29:18.000><c> is</c><00:29:18.080><c> the</c><00:29:18.240><c> wages</c><00:29:18.720><c> being</c> can think of, which is the wages being spent<00:29:19.120><c> on</c><00:29:19.279><c> software</c><00:29:19.600><c> engineering.</c>

spent on software engineering. And<00:29:21.919><c> I</c><00:29:22.159><c> it'll</c><00:29:22.480><c> be</c><00:29:22.640><c> interesting</c><00:29:22.880><c> to</c><00:29:22.960><c> see</c><00:29:23.120><c> how</c> And I it'll be interesting to see how that<00:29:23.440><c> shapes</c><00:29:23.679><c> out</c><00:29:23.840><c> in</c><00:29:24.000><c> the</c><00:29:24.159><c> next</c><00:29:24.559><c> 12</c><00:29:25.039><c> 20</c><00:29:25.360><c> 12</c> that shapes out in the next 12 20 12 months.<00:29:26.559><c> It</c><00:29:26.720><c> is</c><00:29:26.799><c> a</c><00:29:26.960><c> great</c><00:29:27.120><c> analysis</c><00:29:27.600><c> because</c>

months. It is a great analysis because it<00:29:28.000><c> sort</c><00:29:28.159><c> of</c><00:29:28.480><c> you</c><00:29:28.640><c> know</c><00:29:28.799><c> it</c><00:29:29.039><c> is</c><00:29:29.120><c> a</c><00:29:29.279><c> it</c><00:29:29.520><c> is</c> it sort of you know it is a it is definitely<00:29:29.919><c> a</c><00:29:30.080><c> bare</c><00:29:30.320><c> case</c><00:29:30.559><c> that</c><00:29:30.799><c> no</c><00:29:30.880><c> matter</c> definitely a bare case that no matter how<00:29:31.279><c> great</c><00:29:31.520><c> these</c><00:29:31.760><c> tools</c><00:29:32.080><c> are</c><00:29:32.720><c> we</c><00:29:32.880><c> we</c><00:29:33.200><c> may</c><00:29:33.520><c> we</c>

how great these tools are we we may we may<00:29:33.919><c> soon</c><00:29:34.080><c> hit</c><00:29:34.320><c> the</c><00:29:34.480><c> ceiling</c><00:29:34.799><c> in</c><00:29:35.039><c> terms</c><00:29:35.200><c> of</c><00:29:35.360><c> how</c> may soon hit the ceiling in terms of how much<00:29:35.760><c> companies</c><00:29:36.080><c> just</c><00:29:36.240><c> on</c><00:29:36.399><c> an</c><00:29:36.559><c> absolute</c><00:29:36.880><c> sense</c> much companies just on an absolute sense are<00:29:37.279><c> willing</c><00:29:37.440><c> to</c><00:29:37.600><c> spend</c><00:29:37.760><c> here</c><00:29:38.640><c> there</c><00:29:38.880><c> is</c><00:29:38.960><c> a</c>

are willing to spend here there is a seal<00:29:39.440><c> you</c><00:29:39.679><c> can't</c><00:29:40.000><c> spend</c><00:29:40.320><c> more</c><00:29:40.640><c> revenue</c><00:29:40.960><c> than</c> seal you can't spend more revenue than you<00:29:41.279><c> take</c><00:29:41.520><c> in</c><00:29:42.000><c> that's</c><00:29:42.240><c> and</c><00:29:42.399><c> that's</c><00:29:42.559><c> if</c><00:29:42.720><c> you</c> you take in that's and that's if you have<00:29:42.960><c> 100%</c><00:29:43.440><c> gross</c><00:29:43.679><c> margins</c><00:29:44.159><c> right</c><00:29:44.399><c> there</c><00:29:44.559><c> is</c>

have 100% gross margins right there is there<00:29:45.120><c> are</c><00:29:45.200><c> just</c><00:29:45.440><c> physical</c><00:29:45.760><c> limits</c><00:29:46.480><c> even</c><00:29:46.720><c> if</c> there are just physical limits even if you<00:29:47.120><c> reallocate</c><00:29:47.760><c> budget</c><00:29:48.080><c> to</c><00:29:48.480><c> it</c><00:29:48.960><c> there</c><00:29:49.120><c> are</c> you reallocate budget to it there are just<00:29:49.440><c> limits</c> just limits >> you're<00:29:50.559><c> right</c><00:29:50.880><c> Jason</c><00:29:51.120><c> and</c><00:29:51.279><c> you</c><00:29:51.360><c> know</c><00:29:51.440><c> and</c><00:29:51.600><c> I</c><00:29:51.760><c> I</c>

>> you're right Jason and you know and I I almost<00:29:52.159><c> don't</c><00:29:52.320><c> like</c><00:29:52.559><c> to</c><00:29:52.720><c> posit</c><00:29:52.880><c> it</c><00:29:53.120><c> because</c> almost don't like to posit it because one<00:29:53.440><c> of</c><00:29:53.520><c> our</c><00:29:53.679><c> rules</c><00:29:53.919><c> of</c><00:29:54.080><c> thumb</c><00:29:54.240><c> is</c><00:29:54.480><c> this</c><00:29:54.880><c> I</c> one of our rules of thumb is this I always<00:29:55.279><c> joke</c><00:29:55.919><c> Simplistically</c><00:29:56.640><c> put,</c><00:29:57.120><c> Newton's</c>

always joke Simplistically put, Newton's laws<00:29:57.760><c> of</c><00:29:57.919><c> motion</c><00:29:58.240><c> are</c><00:29:58.399><c> true.</c><00:29:58.720><c> Things</c><00:29:58.960><c> in</c> laws of motion are true. Things in motion<00:29:59.520><c> stay</c><00:29:59.760><c> in</c><00:29:59.919><c> motion.</c><00:30:00.799><c> Things</c><00:30:01.039><c> growing</c><00:30:01.440><c> at</c> motion stay in motion. Things growing at 10x<00:30:02.240><c> year</c><00:30:02.399><c> on</c><00:30:02.640><c> year</c><00:30:02.880><c> might</c><00:30:03.039><c> decline</c><00:30:03.360><c> to</c><00:30:03.520><c> 8x</c><00:30:04.000><c> or</c>

10x year on year might decline to 8x or 6x<00:30:04.559><c> or</c><00:30:04.799><c> 4x,</c><00:30:05.360><c> but</c><00:30:05.600><c> they</c><00:30:05.760><c> don't</c><00:30:05.919><c> come</c><00:30:06.080><c> to</c><00:30:06.240><c> a</c> 6x or 4x, but they don't come to a grinding<00:30:06.880><c> stop,</c><00:30:07.679><c> right?</c><00:30:08.159><c> And</c><00:30:08.320><c> the</c><00:30:08.559><c> amazing</c> grinding stop, right? And the amazing thing<00:30:08.960><c> is</c><00:30:09.200><c> when</c><00:30:09.360><c> you're</c><00:30:09.520><c> growing</c><00:30:09.679><c> at</c><00:30:09.840><c> 10x,</c>

thing is when you're growing at 10x, even<00:30:10.720><c> 6x</c><00:30:11.200><c> next</c><00:30:11.440><c> year</c><00:30:11.520><c> and</c><00:30:11.760><c> 4x</c><00:30:12.080><c> the</c><00:30:12.240><c> year</c><00:30:12.399><c> after</c> even 6x next year and 4x the year after that<00:30:12.880><c> is</c><00:30:13.120><c> a</c><00:30:13.360><c> huge</c><00:30:13.840><c> number.</c><00:30:14.559><c> I</c><00:30:14.799><c> mean,</c><00:30:14.880><c> if</c><00:30:15.039><c> you're</c> that is a huge number. I mean, if you're

at<00:30:15.440><c> 50</c><00:30:15.840><c> 60</c><00:30:16.080><c> bill</c><00:30:16.399><c> this</c><00:30:16.559><c> year</c><00:30:16.640><c> in</c><00:30:16.880><c> gap</c><00:30:17.200><c> revenue</c> at 50 60 bill this year in gap revenue and<00:30:17.679><c> you</c><00:30:17.919><c> 6x</c><00:30:18.399><c> next</c><00:30:18.559><c> year,</c><00:30:18.880><c> that's</c><00:30:19.200><c> 300</c><00:30:19.600><c> million</c> and you 6x next year, that's 300 million billion,<00:30:20.880><c> right?</c><00:30:21.279><c> That's</c><00:30:21.600><c> more</c><00:30:21.760><c> than</c><00:30:21.919><c> the</c>

billion, right? That's more than the total<00:30:22.399><c> wage</c><00:30:22.720><c> spent</c><00:30:23.039><c> on</c><00:30:23.200><c> software</c> total wage spent on software development,<00:30:24.000><c> right?</c><00:30:24.399><c> So</c><00:30:24.880><c> you</c><00:30:25.039><c> look</c><00:30:25.200><c> at</c><00:30:25.279><c> it</c> development, right? So you look at it and<00:30:25.520><c> go,</c><00:30:25.679><c> one</c><00:30:25.840><c> of</c><00:30:26.000><c> two</c><00:30:26.159><c> things</c><00:30:26.240><c> is</c><00:30:26.480><c> going</c><00:30:26.559><c> to</c>

and go, one of two things is going to happen<00:30:26.880><c> in</c><00:30:27.120><c> the</c><00:30:27.279><c> next</c><00:30:27.520><c> year.</c><00:30:28.159><c> Either</c><00:30:28.559><c> this</c> happen in the next year. Either this thing<00:30:29.120><c> decelerates</c> thing decelerates faster<00:30:31.520><c> than</c><00:30:31.760><c> anything</c><00:30:32.000><c> you've</c><00:30:32.159><c> ever</c><00:30:32.320><c> seen</c><00:30:32.480><c> de</c> faster than anything you've ever seen de

accelerate.<00:30:33.520><c> And</c><00:30:33.600><c> and</c><00:30:33.919><c> I</c><00:30:34.080><c> don't</c><00:30:34.159><c> think</c><00:30:34.320><c> that's</c> accelerate. And and I don't think that's option<00:30:35.360><c> A.</c><00:30:36.000><c> Option</c><00:30:36.320><c> B,</c><00:30:36.559><c> to</c><00:30:36.799><c> Jason's</c><00:30:37.279><c> point,</c><00:30:37.840><c> a</c> option A. Option B, to Jason's point, a whole<00:30:38.320><c> bunch</c><00:30:38.480><c> of</c><00:30:38.720><c> CFOs</c><00:30:39.200><c> are</c><00:30:39.360><c> literally</c><00:30:39.679><c> going,</c>

whole bunch of CFOs are literally going, we<00:30:41.679><c> used</c><00:30:41.840><c> to</c><00:30:42.080><c> spend</c><00:30:42.880><c> 4</c><00:30:43.120><c> million</c><00:30:43.520><c> on</c><00:30:43.760><c> tech,</c><00:30:44.080><c> all</c> we used to spend 4 million on tech, all of<00:30:44.320><c> it</c><00:30:44.480><c> in</c><00:30:44.640><c> salaries,</c><00:30:45.039><c> and</c><00:30:45.200><c> now</c><00:30:45.360><c> we</c><00:30:45.520><c> spend</c><00:30:45.840><c> 8</c> of it in salaries, and now we spend 8

million<00:30:46.320><c> on</c><00:30:46.480><c> tech,</c><00:30:47.039><c> 4</c><00:30:47.200><c> million</c><00:30:47.360><c> of</c><00:30:47.440><c> it</c><00:30:47.600><c> on</c> million on tech, 4 million of it on salaries.<00:30:48.480><c> WTF,</c><00:30:49.200><c> we</c><00:30:49.360><c> got</c><00:30:49.440><c> to</c><00:30:49.600><c> do</c><00:30:49.760><c> something.</c> salaries. WTF, we got to do something. Right?<00:30:51.039><c> So</c><00:30:51.039><c> it's</c><00:30:51.200><c> just,</c><00:30:51.360><c> as</c><00:30:51.520><c> I</c><00:30:51.679><c> say,</c><00:30:51.919><c> no</c>

Right? So it's just, as I say, no conclusion.<00:30:52.480><c> And</c><00:30:52.640><c> I'm</c><00:30:52.880><c> just</c><00:30:53.360><c> things</c><00:30:53.600><c> I'm</c> conclusion. And I'm just things I'm thinking<00:30:54.080><c> about</c><00:30:54.320><c> in</c><00:30:54.559><c> July</c><00:30:55.279><c> 15th.</c><00:30:56.640><c> It'll</c><00:30:56.960><c> be</c> thinking about in July 15th. It'll be interesting<00:30:57.279><c> to</c><00:30:57.440><c> see.</c><00:30:57.679><c> And</c><00:30:57.760><c> you're</c><00:30:57.919><c> right,</c>

interesting to see. And you're right, Jason.<00:30:58.480><c> There</c><00:30:58.640><c> are</c><00:30:58.799><c> there</c><00:30:59.039><c> are</c><00:30:59.120><c> final</c><00:30:59.440><c> I</c><00:30:59.679><c> mean</c> Jason. There are there are final I mean it<00:31:00.159><c> may</c><00:31:00.320><c> well</c><00:31:00.559><c> be</c><00:31:00.799><c> that</c><00:31:01.200><c> the</c><00:31:01.520><c> prize</c><00:31:01.919><c> for</c> it may well be that the prize for becoming<00:31:02.559><c> the</c><00:31:02.799><c> fastest</c><00:31:03.279><c> growing</c><00:31:03.760><c> company</c><00:31:04.159><c> in</c>

becoming the fastest growing company in human<00:31:04.720><c> history</c><00:31:05.919><c> is</c><00:31:06.240><c> you</c><00:31:06.480><c> may</c><00:31:07.120><c> hit</c><00:31:07.600><c> TAM</c><00:31:08.159><c> faster</c> human history is you may hit TAM faster than<00:31:08.799><c> any</c><00:31:09.039><c> other</c><00:31:09.440><c> company</c><00:31:09.760><c> in</c><00:31:10.000><c> human</c><00:31:10.320><c> recorded</c> than any other company in human recorded history.<00:31:11.039><c> And</c><00:31:11.200><c> you</c><00:31:11.520><c> it'll</c><00:31:11.840><c> be</c><00:31:11.919><c> interesting</c><00:31:12.159><c> to</c>

history. And you it'll be interesting to see.<00:31:12.640><c> You</c><00:31:12.799><c> may</c><00:31:12.960><c> have</c><00:31:13.120><c> hit</c><00:31:13.279><c> the</c><00:31:13.440><c> limits</c><00:31:13.679><c> of</c><00:31:14.000><c> how</c> see. You may have hit the limits of how much<00:31:14.399><c> money</c><00:31:14.559><c> there</c><00:31:14.720><c> is</c><00:31:14.880><c> in</c><00:31:14.960><c> the</c><00:31:15.120><c> till.</c> much money there is in the till. >> You<00:31:16.000><c> know,</c><00:31:16.080><c> there's</c><00:31:16.320><c> just</c><00:31:16.399><c> one</c><00:31:16.559><c> other</c><00:31:16.720><c> vector</c>

>> You know, there's just one other vector just<00:31:17.120><c> to</c><00:31:17.200><c> add</c><00:31:17.279><c> it</c><00:31:17.440><c> up</c><00:31:17.600><c> for</c><00:31:17.679><c> fun.</c><00:31:17.840><c> And</c><00:31:18.000><c> and</c> just to add it up for fun. And and again,<00:31:18.480><c> I</c><00:31:18.720><c> don't</c><00:31:18.960><c> mock</c><00:31:19.279><c> me</c><00:31:19.440><c> if</c><00:31:19.679><c> folks</c><00:31:19.919><c> want</c><00:31:20.080><c> to.</c> again, I don't mock me if folks want to.

So<00:31:20.720><c> there's</c><00:31:20.880><c> there's</c><00:31:21.120><c> there's</c><00:31:21.440><c> how</c><00:31:21.679><c> much</c><00:31:21.760><c> can</c> So there's there's there's how much can we<00:31:22.080><c> spend</c><00:31:22.240><c> on</c><00:31:22.399><c> engineering,</c><00:31:23.039><c> right?</c><00:31:23.520><c> And</c><00:31:23.679><c> then</c> we spend on engineering, right? And then there's<00:31:24.080><c> another</c><00:31:24.399><c> math</c><00:31:24.640><c> you</c><00:31:24.880><c> can</c><00:31:24.960><c> do.</c><00:31:25.200><c> Okay.</c>

there's another math you can do. Okay. Every<00:31:26.080><c> piece</c><00:31:26.320><c> of</c><00:31:26.480><c> software</c><00:31:26.799><c> is</c><00:31:27.279><c> becoming</c><00:31:27.600><c> a</c> Every piece of software is becoming a gentic<00:31:28.159><c> very</c><00:31:28.399><c> very</c><00:31:28.559><c> rapidly.</c><00:31:29.200><c> Okay.</c><00:31:29.679><c> So</c> gentic very very rapidly. Okay. So what's<00:31:30.399><c> software</c><00:31:30.880><c> spend?</c><00:31:31.279><c> A</c><00:31:31.440><c> trillion</c><00:31:31.760><c> and</c><00:31:31.840><c> a</c>

what's software spend? A trillion and a half.<00:31:32.399><c> You</c><00:31:32.559><c> have</c><00:31:32.720><c> better</c><00:31:32.880><c> at</c><00:31:32.960><c> the</c><00:31:33.039><c> numbers.</c> half. You have better at the numbers. >> Plus<00:31:33.919><c> or</c><00:31:34.080><c> minus.</c><00:31:34.399><c> Yeah.</c> >> Plus or minus. Yeah. >> A<00:31:34.799><c> trillion.</c><00:31:35.360><c> So</c><00:31:35.840><c> we</c><00:31:36.159><c> can't</c><00:31:36.640><c> I</c><00:31:36.960><c> think</c><00:31:37.039><c> we're</c>

>> A trillion. So we can't I think we're coming<00:31:37.519><c> to</c><00:31:37.679><c> the</c><00:31:37.840><c> rough</c><00:31:38.159><c> conclusion</c><00:31:38.960><c> that</c> coming to the rough conclusion that folks<00:31:39.519><c> may</c><00:31:39.840><c> tolerate</c><00:31:40.399><c> say</c><00:31:40.559><c> a</c><00:31:40.799><c> 10%</c><00:31:41.679><c> gross</c> folks may tolerate say a 10% gross margin<00:31:42.559><c> spend</c><00:31:43.200><c> on</c><00:31:43.440><c> AI.</c><00:31:43.840><c> Let's</c><00:31:44.080><c> just</c><00:31:44.240><c> assume</c>

margin spend on AI. Let's just assume that<00:31:44.640><c> for</c><00:31:44.799><c> a</c><00:31:44.880><c> minute,</c><00:31:45.200><c> right?</c><00:31:45.600><c> That's</c><00:31:45.840><c> another</c> that for a minute, right? That's another 140<00:31:46.799><c> billion</c><00:31:47.039><c> that</c><00:31:47.200><c> can</c><00:31:47.360><c> go</c><00:31:47.440><c> to</c><00:31:47.600><c> anthropic</c><00:31:48.080><c> and</c> 140 billion that can go to anthropic and friends,<00:31:48.640><c> right?</c><00:31:48.960><c> So</c><00:31:49.519><c> that's</c><00:31:50.000><c> significantly</c>

friends, right? So that's significantly more<00:31:50.799><c> than</c><00:31:50.960><c> the</c><00:31:51.120><c> math</c><00:31:51.279><c> you</c><00:31:51.440><c> just</c><00:31:51.600><c> did,</c><00:31:51.679><c> but</c><00:31:51.840><c> it</c> more than the math you just did, but it it<00:31:52.159><c> itself</c><00:31:52.720><c> has</c><00:31:52.880><c> a</c><00:31:53.120><c> ceiling,</c><00:31:53.519><c> right?</c><00:31:53.679><c> It</c><00:31:53.919><c> can't</c> it itself has a ceiling, right? It can't

be<00:31:54.159><c> all</c><00:31:54.320><c> of</c><00:31:54.480><c> the</c><00:31:54.640><c> 1.4</c><00:31:55.279><c> trillion.</c><00:31:56.240><c> 10%</c><00:31:56.799><c> feels</c> be all of the 1.4 trillion. 10% feels about<00:31:57.440><c> right</c><00:31:57.679><c> today.</c><00:31:57.919><c> There's</c><00:31:58.559><c> 140%.</c><00:31:59.679><c> All</c><00:31:59.840><c> the</c> about right today. There's 140%. All the software<00:32:00.559><c> spend</c><00:32:00.960><c> is</c><00:32:01.279><c> going</c><00:32:01.360><c> to</c><00:32:01.440><c> put</c><00:32:01.679><c> 10%</c><00:32:02.159><c> of</c>

software spend is going to put 10% of their<00:32:02.960><c> topline</c><00:32:03.519><c> into</c><00:32:03.760><c> tokens.</c> their topline into tokens. >> Agreed.<00:32:05.360><c> I</c><00:32:05.760><c> first</c><00:32:05.919><c> of</c><00:32:06.000><c> all,</c><00:32:06.159><c> I</c><00:32:06.320><c> totally</c><00:32:06.640><c> agreed</c> >> Agreed. I first of all, I totally agreed because<00:32:07.200><c> I</c><00:32:07.360><c> mean</c><00:32:07.519><c> you</c><00:32:07.679><c> asked</c><00:32:07.840><c> that</c><00:32:08.080><c> question</c><00:32:08.240><c> a</c>

because I mean you asked that question a while<00:32:08.559><c> back</c><00:32:08.720><c> and</c><00:32:08.880><c> I</c><00:32:09.039><c> got</c><00:32:09.120><c> the</c><00:32:09.360><c> answer</c><00:32:09.519><c> wrong</c> while back and I got the answer wrong because<00:32:10.159><c> I</c><00:32:10.320><c> was</c><00:32:10.399><c> an</c><00:32:10.640><c> idiot</c><00:32:10.880><c> and</c><00:32:10.960><c> then</c><00:32:11.120><c> I</c> because I was an idiot and then I process,<00:32:11.600><c> right,</c><00:32:11.760><c> which</c><00:32:11.919><c> was</c><00:32:12.240><c> how</c><00:32:12.480><c> much</c><00:32:12.720><c> does</c>

process, right, which was how much does it<00:32:12.960><c> cost</c><00:32:13.200><c> to</c><00:32:13.360><c> run</c><00:32:13.519><c> my</c><00:32:13.760><c> little</c><00:32:13.919><c> sales</c><00:32:14.159><c> and</c> it cost to run my little sales and marketing<00:32:14.640><c> agent</c><00:32:14.960><c> and</c><00:32:15.120><c> it</c><00:32:15.279><c> was</c><00:32:15.360><c> way</c><00:32:15.519><c> less</c><00:32:15.760><c> than</c> marketing agent and it was way less than you<00:32:16.159><c> thought,</c><00:32:16.799><c> right?</c><00:32:17.200><c> And</c><00:32:17.360><c> the</c><00:32:17.600><c> reason</c><00:32:17.679><c> this</c>

you thought, right? And the reason this is<00:32:18.080><c> relevant</c><00:32:18.320><c> here</c><00:32:18.480><c> is</c><00:32:18.640><c> this.</c><00:32:18.880><c> It</c><00:32:19.120><c> turns</c><00:32:19.279><c> out</c> is relevant here is this. It turns out that outside<00:32:21.760><c> of</c><00:32:22.000><c> coding,</c><00:32:23.200><c> most</c><00:32:23.440><c> of</c><00:32:23.600><c> the</c><00:32:23.840><c> co</c><00:32:24.480><c> the</c> outside of coding, most of the co the the<00:32:25.039><c> token</c><00:32:25.519><c> costs</c><00:32:26.320><c> for</c><00:32:26.640><c> agentic</c><00:32:27.200><c> software</c>

the token costs for agentic software outside<00:32:28.000><c> of</c><00:32:28.159><c> coding</c><00:32:28.480><c> are</c><00:32:28.720><c> manageable.</c><00:32:29.120><c> To</c> outside of coding are manageable. To your<00:32:29.440><c> point,</c><00:32:29.679><c> they're</c><00:32:29.919><c> 10%.</c><00:32:30.480><c> They're</c><00:32:30.720><c> not</c><00:32:30.880><c> 50.</c> your point, they're 10%. They're not 50. Right.<00:32:32.159><c> So,</c><00:32:32.399><c> you're</c><00:32:32.559><c> right,</c><00:32:32.799><c> Jason,</c><00:32:33.120><c> is</c><00:32:33.279><c> is</c>

Right. So, you're right, Jason, is is that<00:32:33.840><c> if</c><00:32:34.080><c> the</c><00:32:34.320><c> software</c><00:32:34.720><c> industry</c><00:32:35.039><c> is</c><00:32:35.279><c> doing</c><00:32:35.440><c> a</c> that if the software industry is doing a billion<00:32:35.919><c> in</c><00:32:36.159><c> other</c><00:32:36.399><c> kind</c><00:32:36.559><c> of</c><00:32:36.640><c> non-coding</c> billion in other kind of non-coding stuff,<00:32:38.159><c> a</c><00:32:38.320><c> tr</c><00:32:38.559><c> sorry,</c><00:32:38.720><c> a</c><00:32:38.799><c> trillion,</c><00:32:39.440><c> that's</c>

stuff, a tr sorry, a trillion, that's another<00:32:39.919><c> 100</c><00:32:40.159><c> billion</c><00:32:40.399><c> right</c><00:32:40.559><c> there.</c><00:32:40.720><c> You're</c> another 100 billion right there. You're right.<00:32:41.200><c> Like</c><00:32:41.519><c> Salesforce</c><00:32:42.080><c> could</c><00:32:42.399><c> comfortably</c> right. Like Salesforce could comfortably pay<00:32:43.919><c> 10%</c><00:32:44.559><c> of</c><00:32:44.720><c> its</c><00:32:45.039><c> revenue</c><00:32:45.919><c> for</c><00:32:47.360><c> tokens</c><00:32:47.760><c> from</c>

pay 10% of its revenue for tokens from someone.<00:32:48.640><c> They're</c><00:32:48.880><c> not</c><00:32:49.039><c> going</c><00:32:49.120><c> to</c><00:32:49.200><c> pay</c><00:32:49.519><c> 40</c> someone. They're not going to pay 40 because<00:32:50.720><c> they</c><00:32:50.960><c> only</c><00:32:51.120><c> have</c><00:32:51.279><c> 22%</c> because they only have 22% >> operating.<00:32:52.240><c> That's</c><00:32:52.480><c> 100</c><00:32:52.880><c> billion</c><00:32:53.679><c> billion</c><00:32:54.320><c> of</c>

>> operating. That's 100 billion billion of revenue<00:32:54.880><c> that's</c><00:32:55.279><c> almost</c><00:32:55.679><c> accessible</c><00:32:56.240><c> now.</c> revenue that's almost accessible now. And<00:32:56.799><c> it's</c><00:32:56.960><c> I</c><00:32:57.200><c> mean</c><00:32:57.279><c> it's</c><00:32:57.519><c> all</c><00:32:57.760><c> going</c><00:32:58.080><c> to</c> And it's I mean it's all going to Gentic,<00:32:58.640><c> right?</c><00:32:58.880><c> So</c><00:32:59.039><c> that</c><00:32:59.440><c> that</c><00:32:59.760><c> we</c><00:33:00.000><c> we</c><00:33:00.240><c> I</c><00:33:00.399><c> need</c>

Gentic, right? So that that we we I need someone<00:33:00.880><c> smarter</c><00:33:01.120><c> than</c><00:33:01.200><c> me,</c><00:33:01.360><c> but</c><00:33:01.600><c> that</c><00:33:01.760><c> could</c> someone smarter than me, but that could be<00:33:02.000><c> a</c><00:33:02.159><c> hu</c><00:33:02.399><c> I</c><00:33:02.559><c> don't</c><00:33:02.640><c> know</c><00:33:02.640><c> what</c><00:33:02.799><c> percent</c><00:33:03.039><c> of</c> be a hu I don't know what percent of anthropic<00:33:03.679><c> fuel</c><00:33:03.919><c> is,</c><00:33:04.080><c> but</c><00:33:04.240><c> it's</c><00:33:04.320><c> a</c><00:33:04.480><c> lot.</c><00:33:04.640><c> That</c>

anthropic fuel is, but it's a lot. That 100<00:33:05.039><c> billion.</c> 100 billion. >> No,<00:33:05.519><c> you're</c><00:33:05.600><c> right.</c><00:33:05.840><c> It's</c><00:33:06.320><c> there's</c><00:33:06.559><c> really</c> >> No, you're right. It's there's really there's<00:33:07.440><c> really</c><00:33:07.679><c> three</c><00:33:07.919><c> buckets.</c><00:33:08.320><c> There's</c> there's really three buckets. There's the<00:33:08.640><c> coding</c><00:33:08.960><c> bucket.</c><00:33:09.200><c> You're</c><00:33:09.360><c> right.</c><00:33:09.519><c> Then</c>

the coding bucket. You're right. Then there's<00:33:09.840><c> the</c><00:33:10.000><c> agentic</c><00:33:10.640><c> 10%</c><00:33:11.120><c> of</c><00:33:11.279><c> software</c><00:33:11.760><c> tax.</c> there's the agentic 10% of software tax. Just<00:33:12.480><c> like</c><00:33:12.720><c> Amazon</c><00:33:13.200><c> took</c><00:33:13.440><c> a</c><00:33:13.679><c> tax</c><00:33:13.919><c> on</c><00:33:14.159><c> software</c> Just like Amazon took a tax on software 10<00:33:15.360><c> years</c><00:33:15.440><c> ago.</c><00:33:15.840><c> Everyone's</c><00:33:16.159><c> going</c><00:33:16.240><c> to</c><00:33:16.320><c> run</c><00:33:16.480><c> on</c>

10 years ago. Everyone's going to run on Amazon.<00:33:16.960><c> Give</c><00:33:17.039><c> me</c><00:33:17.200><c> 7%.</c><00:33:17.919><c> Now</c><00:33:18.080><c> you're</c><00:33:18.240><c> right.</c> Amazon. Give me 7%. Now you're right. Everyone's<00:33:18.720><c> going</c><00:33:18.799><c> to</c><00:33:18.880><c> run</c><00:33:19.039><c> using</c><00:33:19.279><c> LLM.</c><00:33:19.760><c> Give</c> Everyone's going to run using LLM. Give me<00:33:20.000><c> 10%.</c><00:33:20.480><c> That's</c><00:33:20.640><c> 100</c><00:33:20.960><c> billion</c><00:33:21.279><c> more.</c><00:33:21.600><c> And</c>

me 10%. That's 100 billion more. And then<00:33:21.919><c> the</c><00:33:22.080><c> last</c><00:33:22.320><c> thing</c><00:33:22.399><c> you</c><00:33:22.720><c> start</c><00:33:22.960><c> talking</c><00:33:23.200><c> is</c> then the last thing you start talking is does<00:33:24.080><c> co-work</c><00:33:24.640><c> replace</c><00:33:25.120><c> the</c><00:33:26.080><c> you</c><00:33:26.240><c> the</c> does co-work replace the you the knowledge<00:33:26.799><c> worker</c><00:33:27.360><c> at</c><00:33:27.679><c> 20</c><00:33:27.919><c> bucks</c><00:33:28.240><c> like</c>

knowledge worker at 20 bucks like Microsoft<00:33:29.120><c> Office.</c><00:33:29.519><c> But</c><00:33:29.600><c> you're</c><00:33:29.760><c> right.</c><00:33:29.919><c> I</c> Microsoft Office. But you're right. I mean<00:33:30.240><c> the</c><00:33:30.399><c> big</c><00:33:30.559><c> picture</c><00:33:30.880><c> and</c><00:33:31.039><c> I'm</c><00:33:31.200><c> still</c> mean the big picture and I'm still wrestling<00:33:31.760><c> through</c><00:33:32.000><c> and</c><00:33:32.159><c> trying</c><00:33:32.240><c> to</c><00:33:32.399><c> look</c><00:33:32.480><c> at</c>

wrestling through and trying to look at those<00:33:32.799><c> numbers.</c><00:33:33.120><c> I'll</c><00:33:33.360><c> report</c><00:33:33.600><c> back.</c><00:33:34.080><c> But</c> those numbers. I'll report back. But you're<00:33:34.720><c> definitely</c><00:33:35.120><c> at</c><00:33:35.279><c> the</c><00:33:35.519><c> stage</c><00:33:35.760><c> where</c> you're definitely at the stage where you're<00:33:36.880><c> talking</c><00:33:37.200><c> big</c><00:33:37.440><c> ass</c><00:33:37.679><c> numbers</c><00:33:38.080><c> rel</c><00:33:38.320><c> to</c>

you're talking big ass numbers rel to everyone<00:33:38.720><c> else's</c><00:33:39.120><c> numbers.</c> everyone else's numbers. >> Is<00:33:40.159><c> there</c><00:33:40.320><c> movement</c><00:33:40.640><c> into</c><00:33:40.960><c> legal</c><00:33:41.679><c> biosciences</c> >> Is there movement into legal biosciences not<00:33:42.960><c> just</c><00:33:43.120><c> an</c><00:33:43.279><c> appreciation</c><00:33:44.159><c> of</c><00:33:44.320><c> the</c><00:33:44.559><c> fact</c> not just an appreciation of the fact

that<00:33:44.799><c> they</c><00:33:44.960><c> are</c><00:33:45.120><c> potentially</c><00:33:45.519><c> hitting</c> that they are potentially hitting tamaling<00:33:46.559><c> limits</c><00:33:47.200><c> in</c><00:33:47.360><c> where</c><00:33:47.600><c> they</c><00:33:47.679><c> are</c> tamaling limits in where they are already? >> Potent<00:33:49.679><c> I</c><00:33:49.919><c> want</c><00:33:50.000><c> to</c><00:33:50.080><c> say</c><00:33:50.240><c> something</c><00:33:50.640><c> potential</c>

>> Potent I want to say something potential there's<00:33:51.919><c> no</c><00:33:52.159><c> evidence</c><00:33:52.480><c> that</c><00:33:52.720><c> they</c><00:33:52.880><c> are</c><00:33:53.120><c> even</c> there's no evidence that they are even though<00:33:53.519><c> logically</c><00:33:53.919><c> again</c><00:33:54.080><c> I</c><00:33:54.240><c> want</c><00:33:54.399><c> because</c><00:33:54.559><c> I</c> though logically again I want because I don't<00:33:54.720><c> want</c><00:33:54.880><c> someone</c><00:33:55.039><c> to</c><00:33:55.120><c> say</c><00:33:55.279><c> hey</c><00:33:55.840><c> the</c><00:33:56.000><c> hidden</c>

don't want someone to say hey the hidden town<00:33:56.960><c> all</c><00:33:57.200><c> the</c><00:33:57.600><c> traction</c><00:33:58.080><c> momentum</c><00:33:58.640><c> seems</c><00:33:58.880><c> to</c> town all the traction momentum seems to say<00:33:59.120><c> they're</c><00:33:59.440><c> not.</c><00:33:59.679><c> I</c><00:33:59.919><c> just</c><00:34:00.240><c> look</c><00:34:00.399><c> at</c><00:34:00.559><c> the</c> say they're not. I just look at the actual<00:34:02.000><c> market</c><00:34:02.320><c> and</c><00:34:02.480><c> I</c><00:34:02.559><c> go,</c><00:34:02.640><c> "Huh?"</c><00:34:03.279><c> Right.</c><00:34:04.240><c> I</c>

actual market and I go, "Huh?" Right. I I<00:34:04.720><c> genu</c><00:34:05.200><c> I</c><00:34:05.360><c> I</c><00:34:05.679><c> personally</c><00:34:06.000><c> think</c><00:34:06.159><c> the</c><00:34:06.559><c> on</c><00:34:06.799><c> the</c> I genu I I personally think the on the on<00:34:07.200><c> the</c><00:34:07.600><c> medical</c><00:34:08.000><c> side,</c><00:34:08.240><c> I</c><00:34:08.480><c> think,</c><00:34:08.960><c> oddly</c> on the medical side, I think, oddly enough,<00:34:09.520><c> I</c><00:34:09.760><c> don't</c><00:34:09.839><c> know</c><00:34:09.919><c> if</c><00:34:10.079><c> that's</c><00:34:10.320><c> as</c><00:34:10.480><c> much</c>

enough, I don't know if that's as much as<00:34:10.800><c> I</c><00:34:11.040><c> think</c> as I think the<00:34:13.119><c> founders</c><00:34:13.520><c> of</c><00:34:13.839><c> anthropic</c><00:34:14.399><c> just</c><00:34:14.560><c> like</c><00:34:14.720><c> the</c> the founders of anthropic just like the founder<00:34:15.280><c> of</c><00:34:15.520><c> deep</c><00:34:15.839><c> mind</c><00:34:16.079><c> is</c><00:34:16.240><c> very</c><00:34:16.399><c> much</c> founder of deep mind is very much

motivated<00:34:17.040><c> on</c><00:34:17.280><c> the</c><00:34:17.440><c> medical</c><00:34:17.679><c> side</c><00:34:17.919><c> by</c><00:34:18.240><c> you</c> motivated on the medical side by you know<00:34:18.399><c> the</c><00:34:18.560><c> desire</c><00:34:18.800><c> to</c><00:34:19.040><c> everyone</c><00:34:19.359><c> almost</c> know the desire to everyone almost references<00:34:20.159><c> the</c><00:34:20.480><c> world</c><00:34:20.720><c> where</c><00:34:20.960><c> cancer</c><00:34:21.359><c> is</c>

references the world where cancer is cured<00:34:22.240><c> when</c><00:34:22.560><c> they're</c><00:34:22.800><c> talking</c><00:34:23.040><c> about</c><00:34:23.200><c> their</c> cured when they're talking about their LLM.<00:34:24.000><c> So</c><00:34:24.159><c> I</c><00:34:24.399><c> think</c><00:34:24.560><c> actually</c><00:34:24.879><c> people's</c> LLM. So I think actually people's interest<00:34:25.839><c> in</c><00:34:26.079><c> doing</c><00:34:26.639><c> life</c><00:34:26.960><c> science</c><00:34:27.919><c> is</c>

interest in doing life science is one-third<00:34:29.040><c> TAM</c><00:34:29.599><c> expansion</c><00:34:30.159><c> and</c><00:34:30.399><c> two/3</c><00:34:31.760><c> [ __ ]</c> one-third TAM expansion and two/3 [ __ ] I'm<00:34:32.240><c> putting</c><00:34:32.480><c> everyone</c><00:34:32.639><c> at</c><00:34:32.800><c> a</c><00:34:32.960><c> job.</c><00:34:33.119><c> The</c><00:34:33.280><c> least</c> I'm putting everyone at a job. The least I<00:34:33.520><c> can</c><00:34:33.679><c> do</c><00:34:33.760><c> is</c><00:34:33.919><c> keep</c><00:34:34.079><c> them</c><00:34:34.159><c> alive.</c><00:34:34.800><c> I</c><00:34:35.040><c> want</c><00:34:35.119><c> to</c>

I can do is keep them alive. I want to do<00:34:35.440><c> good</c><00:34:35.679><c> because</c><00:34:35.718><c> [clears throat]</c><00:34:35.919><c> I</c><00:34:36.159><c> want</c> do good because [clears throat] I want to<00:34:36.399><c> have</c><00:34:36.560><c> meaning.</c><00:34:37.440><c> It's</c><00:34:37.599><c> a</c><00:34:37.760><c> search</c><00:34:38.079><c> for</c> to have meaning. It's a search for meaning.<00:34:39.200><c> And</c><00:34:39.520><c> you</c><00:34:39.679><c> know</c><00:34:39.839><c> starting</c><00:34:40.079><c> with</c><00:34:40.320><c> Deep</c>

meaning. And you know starting with Deep Mind<00:34:40.800><c> and</c><00:34:40.960><c> going</c><00:34:41.200><c> from</c><00:34:41.359><c> there.</c> Mind and going from there. >> I<00:34:43.599><c> mean</c><00:34:43.760><c> if</c><00:34:44.079><c> if</c><00:34:44.240><c> you</c><00:34:44.399><c> don't</c><00:34:44.560><c> think</c><00:34:44.720><c> the</c><00:34:44.960><c> other</c> >> I mean if if you don't think the other founders<00:34:45.599><c> wish</c><00:34:45.760><c> they</c><00:34:46.000><c> had</c><00:34:46.079><c> a</c><00:34:46.240><c> Nobel</c><00:34:46.639><c> Prize</c>

founders wish they had a Nobel Prize like<00:34:47.359><c> like</c><00:34:47.679><c> Deep</c><00:34:48.000><c> Mind</c><00:34:48.240><c> like</c><00:34:48.399><c> Demeta,</c><00:34:49.119><c> you're</c> like like Deep Mind like Demeta, you're crazy.<00:34:49.919><c> That</c><00:34:50.079><c> must</c><00:34:50.320><c> be</c><00:34:50.480><c> good.</c><00:34:50.720><c> That</c><00:34:50.960><c> must</c><00:34:51.119><c> feel</c> crazy. That must be good. That must feel good. Jason's<00:34:53.280><c> going</c><00:34:53.359><c> to</c><00:34:53.440><c> get</c><00:34:53.520><c> a</c><00:34:53.679><c> Nobel</c><00:34:54.079><c> Peace</c><00:34:54.399><c> Prize</c>

Jason's going to get a Nobel Peace Prize for >> everyone's<00:34:55.520><c> not</c><00:34:55.679><c> going</c><00:34:55.760><c> to</c><00:34:55.839><c> get</c><00:34:55.919><c> a</c><00:34:56.079><c> Nobel</c> >> everyone's not going to get a Nobel Prize<00:34:57.839><c> with</c><00:34:58.000><c> his</c><00:34:58.240><c> companies.</c><00:34:58.800><c> Okay.</c> Prize with his companies. Okay. >> But<00:34:59.200><c> Jason</c><00:34:59.599><c> should.</c> >> But Jason should.

>> Yeah,<00:35:00.560><c> exactly.</c><00:35:01.280><c> Impact.</c> >> Yeah, exactly. Impact. >> I'm<00:35:02.640><c> waiting</c><00:35:02.880><c> just</c><00:35:03.040><c> to</c><00:35:03.200><c> get</c><00:35:03.280><c> an</c><00:35:03.440><c> offer,</c><00:35:03.680><c> a</c> >> I'm waiting just to get an offer, a decent<00:35:04.160><c> offer</c><00:35:04.400><c> from</c><00:35:04.640><c> any</c><00:35:04.880><c> offer</c><00:35:05.119><c> from</c> decent offer from any offer from

Anthropic.<00:35:05.920><c> I</c><00:35:06.000><c> haven't</c><00:35:06.160><c> gotten</c><00:35:06.400><c> a</c><00:35:06.560><c> single</c> Anthropic. I haven't gotten a single one.<00:35:08.079><c> No</c><00:35:08.320><c> one's</c><00:35:08.560><c> offered</c><00:35:08.800><c> to</c><00:35:08.960><c> bring</c><00:35:09.119><c> me</c><00:35:09.280><c> in</c><00:35:09.440><c> as</c> one. No one's offered to bring me in as a<00:35:09.760><c> chief</c><00:35:10.079><c> anything.</c> a chief anything.

>> It's<00:35:11.089><c> [snorts]</c><00:35:11.200><c> a</c><00:35:11.440><c> joke.</c><00:35:12.480><c> What</c><00:35:12.720><c> would</c><00:35:12.880><c> your</c> >> It's [snorts] a joke. What would your price<00:35:13.280><c> be,</c><00:35:13.599><c> Jason?</c> price be, Jason? >> 200. >> Wow. >> After<00:35:18.880><c> tax</c><00:35:19.200><c> is</c><00:35:19.359><c> not</c><00:35:19.520><c> worth</c><00:35:19.680><c> it</c><00:35:19.839><c> otherwise.</c> >> After tax is not worth it otherwise.

Plus,<00:35:20.720><c> I</c><00:35:20.880><c> don't</c><00:35:20.960><c> really</c><00:35:21.119><c> want</c><00:35:21.280><c> to</c><00:35:21.359><c> work</c><00:35:21.520><c> for</c> Plus, I don't really want to work for the<00:35:21.839><c> man.</c><00:35:22.560><c> So,</c><00:35:22.800><c> that'd</c><00:35:23.040><c> be</c><00:35:23.200><c> the</c><00:35:23.599><c> I</c><00:35:24.000><c> if</c><00:35:24.160><c> I</c><00:35:24.320><c> really</c> the man. So, that'd be the I if I really wanted<00:35:24.800><c> to</c><00:35:24.880><c> do</c><00:35:25.040><c> it,</c><00:35:25.760><c> 200</c><00:35:26.240><c> would</c><00:35:26.400><c> be</c><00:35:26.480><c> the</c>

wanted to do it, 200 would be the minimum<00:35:26.960><c> entry</c><00:35:27.280><c> price.</c> minimum entry price. >> Strongly<00:35:28.079><c> the</c><00:35:28.240><c> need</c><00:35:28.480><c> to</c><00:35:28.640><c> say</c><00:35:28.720><c> to</c><00:35:28.880><c> you,</c><00:35:29.119><c> Jason,</c> >> Strongly the need to say to you, Jason, that<00:35:29.760><c> based</c><00:35:30.000><c> on</c><00:35:30.240><c> my</c><00:35:30.480><c> understanding</c><00:35:30.880><c> of</c><00:35:31.119><c> the</c>

that based on my understanding of the entropic<00:35:31.920><c> or</c><00:35:32.240><c> structure,</c><00:35:32.560><c> you</c><00:35:32.800><c> in</c><00:35:32.880><c> fact</c><00:35:33.119><c> don't</c> entropic or structure, you in fact don't work<00:35:33.440><c> for</c><00:35:33.599><c> the</c><00:35:33.760><c> man,</c><00:35:33.920><c> you</c><00:35:34.079><c> work</c><00:35:34.240><c> for</c><00:35:34.320><c> the</c><00:35:34.800><c> the</c> work for the man, you work for the the woman,<00:35:35.520><c> right?</c><00:35:35.760><c> Daniela</c><00:35:36.320><c> runs</c><00:35:36.560><c> everything.</c>

woman, right? Daniela runs everything. >> It's<00:35:37.680><c> it's</c><00:35:37.920><c> a</c><00:35:38.079><c> genderneutral</c><00:35:38.720><c> term</c><00:35:39.040><c> I</c><00:35:39.119><c> I</c><00:35:39.359><c> would</c> >> It's it's a genderneutral term I I would say,<00:35:39.520><c> but</c><00:35:39.760><c> for</c><00:35:40.720><c> take</c><00:35:40.880><c> the</c><00:35:41.040><c> job</c><00:35:41.200><c> and</c><00:35:41.680><c> take</c><00:35:42.560><c> Yeah.</c> say, but for take the job and take Yeah.

>> 200.<00:35:43.760><c> There</c><00:35:43.920><c> we</c><00:35:44.079><c> go.</c><00:35:44.240><c> We</c><00:35:44.400><c> have</c> >> 200. There we go. We have >> I<00:35:44.720><c> don't</c><00:35:44.800><c> think</c><00:35:44.960><c> they</c><00:35:45.359><c> actually</c><00:35:45.680><c> can</c><00:35:46.320><c> risk</c> >> I don't think they actually can risk there.<00:35:46.960><c> I</c><00:35:47.200><c> might</c><00:35:47.440><c> not</c><00:35:47.599><c> work</c><00:35:47.760><c> out</c><00:35:47.920><c> for</c><00:35:48.160><c> 5</c><00:35:48.400><c> years</c>

there. I might not work out for 5 years there.<00:35:49.119><c> There's</c><00:35:49.280><c> no</c><00:35:49.599><c> choice</c><00:35:49.920><c> I</c><00:35:50.079><c> don't</c><00:35:50.320><c> take.</c> there. There's no choice I don't take. >> There's<00:35:51.839><c> no</c><00:35:52.000><c> other</c><00:35:52.240><c> way</c><00:35:52.480><c> of</c><00:35:52.720><c> saying</c><00:35:52.960><c> this</c> >> There's no other way of saying this without<00:35:53.599><c> being</c><00:35:53.839><c> hurtful.</c>

without being hurtful. >> It<00:35:54.560><c> is</c><00:35:54.720><c> 200</c><00:35:55.119><c> is</c><00:35:55.280><c> my</c><00:35:55.440><c> number.</c> >> It is 200 is my number. >> I<00:35:56.079><c> don't</c><00:35:56.320><c> think</c><00:35:56.560><c> you'll</c><00:35:56.880><c> pass</c><00:35:57.200><c> the</c> >> I don't think you'll pass the personality<00:35:58.079><c> test.</c><00:35:58.400><c> I</c><00:35:58.560><c> mean,</c><00:35:58.720><c> I</c><00:35:58.880><c> know</c><00:35:58.960><c> I</c>

personality test. I mean, I know I wouldn't,<00:35:59.839><c> right?</c><00:36:00.400><c> But</c><00:36:00.640><c> they're</c><00:36:00.960><c> doing</c><00:36:01.280><c> good,</c> wouldn't, right? But they're doing good, caring,<00:36:02.240><c> all</c><00:36:02.400><c> that</c><00:36:02.560><c> stuff.</c><00:36:02.720><c> I</c><00:36:02.880><c> I</c><00:36:03.119><c> think</c><00:36:03.200><c> you</c> caring, all that stuff. I I think you just<00:36:03.520><c> flunk</c><00:36:03.920><c> out.</c>

just flunk out. >> Yeah,<00:36:04.880><c> but</c><00:36:05.040><c> they</c><00:36:05.520><c> some</c><00:36:05.680><c> people</c><00:36:05.839><c> think</c><00:36:06.000><c> I'm</c><00:36:06.160><c> a</c> >> Yeah, but they some people think I'm a little<00:36:06.480><c> driven,</c><00:36:06.800><c> Rory,</c><00:36:07.119><c> even</c><00:36:07.280><c> at</c><00:36:07.440><c> this</c><00:36:07.520><c> point</c> little driven, Rory, even at this point in<00:36:07.760><c> my</c><00:36:07.920><c> career.</c>

in my career. >> Yeah,<00:36:08.400><c> you're</c><00:36:08.560><c> driven,</c><00:36:08.720><c> but</c><00:36:08.960><c> they</c><00:36:09.440><c> they</c><00:36:09.839><c> they</c> >> Yeah, you're driven, but they they they filter<00:36:10.800><c> out</c><00:36:11.040><c> for</c><00:36:11.200><c> cynicism.</c><00:36:11.680><c> You</c><00:36:11.839><c> just</c><00:36:11.920><c> won't</c> filter out for cynicism. You just won't make<00:36:12.240><c> it</c><00:36:12.400><c> true.</c><00:36:13.520><c> You're</c><00:36:13.680><c> just</c><00:36:13.839><c> not</c><00:36:14.000><c> idealistic</c>

make it true. You're just not idealistic enough.<00:36:14.720><c> I</c><00:36:14.960><c> look,</c><00:36:15.200><c> I</c><00:36:15.359><c> haven't</c><00:36:15.520><c> gotten</c><00:36:15.760><c> the</c> enough. I look, I haven't gotten the offer.<00:36:16.320><c> So,</c><00:36:17.440><c> empirically,</c><00:36:17.920><c> you're</c><00:36:18.079><c> you're</c> offer. So, empirically, you're you're correct.<00:36:18.720><c> I</c><00:36:18.800><c> do</c><00:36:18.880><c> want</c><00:36:18.960><c> to</c><00:36:19.040><c> make</c><00:36:19.200><c> sure</c><00:36:19.359><c> we</c>

correct. I do want to make sure we >> I've<00:36:19.839><c> done</c><00:36:20.000><c> 63</c><00:36:20.480><c> of</c><00:36:20.640><c> these</c><00:36:20.880><c> podcasts.</c><00:36:21.839><c> I've</c> >> I've done 63 of these podcasts. I've written<00:36:22.480><c> 10,000</c><00:36:23.119><c> blog</c><00:36:23.440><c> posts.</c><00:36:23.760><c> I</c><00:36:23.920><c> haven't</c> written 10,000 blog posts. I haven't gotten<00:36:24.240><c> one</c><00:36:24.400><c> offer</c><00:36:24.640><c> from</c><00:36:24.880><c> Enthropic.</c><00:36:25.440><c> It's</c>

gotten one offer from Enthropic. It's just<00:36:25.839><c> not</c><00:36:26.000><c> coming,</c><00:36:26.320><c> is</c><00:36:26.480><c> it?</c> just not coming, is it? >> It's<00:36:26.960><c> age</c><00:36:27.280><c> discrimination.</c><00:36:28.240><c> You're</c><00:36:28.480><c> right.</c> >> It's age discrimination. You're right. Um,<00:36:29.359><c> the</c><00:36:29.599><c> infrastructure</c><00:36:30.240><c> that</c><00:36:30.400><c> powers</c> Um, the infrastructure that powers

foundation<00:36:31.280><c> models,</c><00:36:31.680><c> SKHix,</c><00:36:32.880><c> NASDAQ</c> foundation models, SKHix, NASDAQ listing.<00:36:34.160><c> You</c><00:36:34.320><c> want</c><00:36:34.400><c> to</c><00:36:34.560><c> go</c><00:36:34.640><c> there,</c><00:36:34.880><c> Rory?</c> listing. You want to go there, Rory? >> Great.<00:36:36.720><c> I</c><00:36:36.960><c> mean,</c> >> Great. I mean, >> yeah,<00:36:37.550><c> [laughter]</c> >> great.<00:36:42.400><c> I'm</c><00:36:43.280><c> suggested</c><00:36:43.920><c> topic</c><00:36:44.160><c> these</c><00:36:44.480><c> days,</c>

>> great. I'm suggested topic these days, Jason,<00:36:45.119><c> cuz</c><00:36:45.359><c> he</c><00:36:45.520><c> just</c><00:36:45.760><c> scowls</c><00:36:46.240><c> and</c><00:36:46.400><c> I'm</c><00:36:46.560><c> like,</c> Jason, cuz he just scowls and I'm like, "Oh,<00:36:47.040><c> fuck."</c> "Oh, fuck." >> No,<00:36:48.000><c> no,</c><00:36:48.160><c> no.</c><00:36:48.240><c> I</c><00:36:48.400><c> thought</c><00:36:48.560><c> that</c> >> No, no, no. I thought that >> it's<00:36:49.040><c> a</c><00:36:49.200><c> winner.</c>

>> it's a winner. >> I<00:36:50.079><c> mean,</c><00:36:50.720><c> you</c><00:36:50.960><c> know,</c> >> I mean, you know, look,<00:36:53.280><c> obviously</c><00:36:53.920><c> the</c><00:36:54.160><c> stuff</c><00:36:54.400><c> everyone</c> look, obviously the stuff everyone knows.<00:36:55.119><c> There</c><00:36:55.280><c> are</c><00:36:55.440><c> three</c><00:36:55.760><c> memory</c><00:36:56.160><c> companies.</c> knows. There are three memory companies. They<00:36:57.440><c> have</c><00:36:57.680><c> been</c><00:36:58.079><c> a</c><00:36:59.119><c> huge</c><00:36:59.520><c> beneficiary</c><00:37:00.079><c> of</c><00:37:00.160><c> the</c>

They have been a huge beneficiary of the AI<00:37:00.640><c> capex</c><00:37:01.200><c> boom</c><00:37:01.440><c> in</c><00:37:01.599><c> the</c><00:37:01.760><c> last</c><00:37:02.000><c> year.</c><00:37:02.640><c> Those</c> AI capex boom in the last year. Those stock<00:37:03.359><c> um</c><00:37:03.520><c> skinex</c><00:37:04.240><c> is</c><00:37:04.320><c> up</c><00:37:04.560><c> 6x,</c><00:37:05.359><c> right?</c><00:37:05.839><c> Two</c><00:37:06.079><c> of</c> stock um skinex is up 6x, right? Two of

the<00:37:06.400><c> three</c><00:37:06.720><c> are</c><00:37:07.040><c> based</c><00:37:07.280><c> in</c><00:37:07.440><c> Korea.</c><00:37:08.000><c> Samsung</c> the three are based in Korea. Samsung and<00:37:08.560><c> SKH</c><00:37:08.880><c> Highex,</c><00:37:09.520><c> Micron</c><00:37:10.000><c> is</c><00:37:10.160><c> based</c><00:37:10.320><c> in</c> and SKH Highex, Micron is based in Idaho.<00:37:11.040><c> go</c><00:37:11.280><c> America</c><00:37:12.320><c> and</c><00:37:12.960><c> the</c><00:37:13.119><c> truth</c><00:37:13.359><c> is</c><00:37:13.599><c> it's</c>

Idaho. go America and the truth is it's at<00:37:14.160><c> igopoly</c><00:37:14.720><c> they've</c><00:37:14.960><c> made</c><00:37:15.119><c> out</c><00:37:15.280><c> like</c><00:37:15.520><c> bandits</c> at igopoly they've made out like bandits and<00:37:16.160><c> it's</c><00:37:16.320><c> actually</c><00:37:16.560><c> very</c><00:37:16.880><c> hard</c><00:37:17.040><c> to</c><00:37:17.280><c> buy</c> and it's actually very hard to buy stocks<00:37:18.160><c> in</c><00:37:18.320><c> Korea</c><00:37:18.720><c> which</c><00:37:18.880><c> is</c><00:37:19.040><c> why</c><00:37:19.200><c> even</c><00:37:19.440><c> today</c>

stocks in Korea which is why even today interestingly<00:37:20.240><c> enough</c><00:37:21.040><c> after</c><00:37:21.920><c> the</c><00:37:22.160><c> ADR</c><00:37:22.720><c> is</c> interestingly enough after the ADR is traded<00:37:23.359><c> in</c><00:37:23.599><c> the</c><00:37:23.760><c> US</c><00:37:24.000><c> stock</c><00:37:24.320><c> exchange</c><00:37:24.880><c> it's</c> traded in the US stock exchange it's still<00:37:25.280><c> trading</c><00:37:25.520><c> at</c><00:37:25.680><c> a</c><00:37:25.920><c> 20%</c><00:37:26.400><c> premium</c><00:37:26.960><c> to</c><00:37:27.200><c> the</c>

still trading at a 20% premium to the same<00:37:27.680><c> stock</c><00:37:28.079><c> in</c><00:37:28.400><c> Korea</c><00:37:28.800><c> because</c><00:37:28.960><c> it's</c><00:37:29.200><c> just</c> same stock in Korea because it's just hard<00:37:29.599><c> for</c><00:37:29.760><c> an</c><00:37:30.000><c> American</c><00:37:30.320><c> to</c><00:37:30.960><c> open</c><00:37:31.200><c> a</c><00:37:31.359><c> brokerage</c> hard for an American to open a brokerage account<00:37:32.000><c> in</c><00:37:32.240><c> Korea</c><00:37:32.720><c> by</c><00:37:32.800><c> the</c><00:37:32.960><c> Swedish</c><00:37:33.440><c> buy</c><00:37:33.680><c> the</c>

account in Korea by the Swedish buy the Korean<00:37:34.160><c> things</c><00:37:34.400><c> so</c><00:37:35.119><c> I</c><00:37:35.280><c> I</c><00:37:35.440><c> think</c><00:37:35.599><c> it's</c><00:37:35.760><c> just</c> Korean things so I I think it's just good<00:37:36.400><c> that</c><00:37:36.640><c> these</c><00:37:36.960><c> guys</c><00:37:37.119><c> are</c><00:37:37.359><c> accessing</c><00:37:37.920><c> the</c> good that these guys are accessing the capital<00:37:38.560><c> markets</c>

capital markets >> next<00:37:39.760><c> NASDAQ</c><00:37:40.320><c> listing</c><00:37:40.880><c> large</c><00:37:41.359><c> ever</c><00:37:41.599><c> by</c><00:37:41.680><c> a</c> >> next NASDAQ listing large ever by a foreign<00:37:42.240><c> company.</c><00:37:43.200><c> uh</c><00:37:43.359><c> had</c><00:37:43.520><c> a</c><00:37:43.760><c> great</c><00:37:43.920><c> reaction</c> foreign company. uh had a great reaction popped<00:37:44.960><c> 13%</c><00:37:45.680><c> at</c><00:37:46.000><c> close</c><00:37:46.160><c> of</c><00:37:46.320><c> day</c>

popped 13% at close of day >> and<00:37:47.520><c> then</c><00:37:47.760><c> back</c><00:37:48.079><c> down</c><00:37:48.560><c> and</c><00:37:48.800><c> then</c><00:37:48.960><c> I</c><00:37:49.200><c> mean</c><00:37:49.280><c> look</c> >> and then back down and then I mean look had<00:37:49.599><c> a</c><00:37:49.760><c> very</c><00:37:49.920><c> difficult</c><00:37:50.240><c> day</c><00:37:50.480><c> I</c><00:37:50.720><c> think</c> had a very difficult day I think yesterday<00:37:51.359><c> and</c><00:37:51.680><c> last</c><00:37:52.000><c> couple</c><00:37:52.240><c> of</c><00:37:52.400><c> days</c><00:37:52.800><c> right</c>

yesterday and last couple of days right and<00:37:54.560><c> yeah</c><00:37:54.800><c> it</c><00:37:54.880><c> would</c><00:37:55.040><c> be</c><00:37:55.119><c> tempting</c><00:37:55.359><c> to</c><00:37:55.520><c> go</c><00:37:55.760><c> to</c> and yeah it would be tempting to go to some<00:37:56.079><c> kind</c><00:37:56.160><c> of</c><00:37:56.400><c> oh</c><00:37:56.480><c> my</c><00:37:56.640><c> god</c><00:37:56.720><c> the</c><00:37:56.960><c> AI</c><00:37:57.200><c> capex</c> some kind of oh my god the AI capex

bubble<00:37:58.160><c> is</c><00:37:58.320><c> busting</c><00:37:58.720><c> and</c><00:37:58.880><c> at</c><00:37:59.040><c> some</c><00:37:59.200><c> point</c><00:37:59.359><c> it</c> bubble is busting and at some point it will<00:38:00.000><c> but</c><00:38:00.720><c> I</c><00:38:00.960><c> actually</c><00:38:01.200><c> think</c><00:38:01.359><c> a</c><00:38:01.520><c> lot</c><00:38:01.599><c> of</c><00:38:01.680><c> that</c> will but I actually think a lot of that there's<00:38:02.240><c> a</c><00:38:02.400><c> lot</c><00:38:02.480><c> of</c><00:38:02.560><c> weird</c><00:38:02.880><c> technical</c><00:38:03.359><c> stuff</c>

there's a lot of weird technical stuff going<00:38:03.839><c> on</c><00:38:04.079><c> there</c><00:38:04.480><c> because</c><00:38:05.599><c> the</c><00:38:05.839><c> two</c><00:38:06.160><c> no</c> going on there because the two no surprise<00:38:06.800><c> the</c><00:38:07.040><c> two</c><00:38:07.200><c> memory</c><00:38:07.680><c> companies</c> surprise the two memory companies dominate<00:38:09.680><c> the</c><00:38:09.920><c> Korean</c><00:38:10.320><c> stock</c><00:38:10.560><c> market</c><00:38:10.880><c> they</c>

dominate the Korean stock market they are<00:38:11.280><c> the</c><00:38:11.520><c> two</c><00:38:11.760><c> companies</c><00:38:12.079><c> Samsung</c><00:38:12.560><c> and</c><00:38:12.720><c> highex</c> are the two companies Samsung and highex are<00:38:13.520><c> 60%</c><00:38:14.400><c> of</c><00:38:14.560><c> the</c><00:38:14.800><c> stock</c><00:38:15.119><c> market</c><00:38:15.599><c> and</c><00:38:15.920><c> roughly</c> are 60% of the stock market and roughly 120%<00:38:17.200><c> of</c><00:38:17.359><c> the</c><00:38:17.520><c> of</c><00:38:17.760><c> the</c><00:38:17.839><c> GDP</c><00:38:18.720><c> in</c><00:38:18.960><c> terms</c><00:38:19.200><c> of</c>

120% of the of the GDP in terms of market<00:38:19.599><c> cap.</c><00:38:20.079><c> They're</c><00:38:20.400><c> just</c><00:38:20.560><c> huge,</c><00:38:21.200><c> right?</c> market cap. They're just huge, right? They're<00:38:22.079><c> highly</c><00:38:22.480><c> volatile.</c><00:38:23.119><c> They're</c><00:38:23.280><c> very</c> They're highly volatile. They're very there's<00:38:23.760><c> lots</c><00:38:24.000><c> of</c><00:38:24.079><c> retail</c><00:38:24.480><c> action</c><00:38:24.800><c> in</c><00:38:25.040><c> Korea.</c>

there's lots of retail action in Korea. So<00:38:25.760><c> there's</c><00:38:25.920><c> just</c><00:38:26.079><c> a</c><00:38:26.320><c> lot</c><00:38:26.400><c> of</c><00:38:26.960><c> intraday</c> So there's just a lot of intraday volatility<00:38:28.000><c> in</c><00:38:28.240><c> the</c><00:38:28.320><c> Korean</c><00:38:28.640><c> stock</c><00:38:28.800><c> exchange.</c> volatility in the Korean stock exchange. It's<00:38:29.440><c> all</c><00:38:29.599><c> kind</c><00:38:29.760><c> of</c><00:38:29.839><c> crazy</c><00:38:30.160><c> casino</c><00:38:30.560><c> level</c>

It's all kind of crazy casino level wealth<00:38:31.359><c> there,</c><00:38:31.760><c> right?</c><00:38:32.240><c> So</c><00:38:32.800><c> even</c><00:38:33.040><c> though</c><00:38:33.119><c> the</c> wealth there, right? So even though the stocks<00:38:33.599><c> moved</c><00:38:33.839><c> down</c><00:38:34.000><c> in</c><00:38:34.160><c> the</c><00:38:34.240><c> last</c><00:38:34.400><c> couple</c> stocks moved down in the last couple days,<00:38:35.760><c> it's</c><00:38:36.079><c> not</c><00:38:36.160><c> as</c><00:38:36.400><c> clear.</c><00:38:36.800><c> Is</c><00:38:36.960><c> it</c>

days, it's not as clear. Is it fundamentally<00:38:37.760><c> oh</c><00:38:38.000><c> DRAM's</c><00:38:39.280><c> connect</c> fundamentally oh DRAM's connect correction<00:38:40.800><c> or</c><00:38:41.040><c> is</c><00:38:41.200><c> it</c><00:38:41.359><c> just</c><00:38:41.599><c> weird</c><00:38:41.920><c> kind</c><00:38:42.079><c> of</c> correction or is it just weird kind of trading<00:38:42.560><c> [ __ ]</c> trading [ __ ] But<00:38:44.560><c> I</c><00:38:44.800><c> think</c><00:38:44.880><c> on</c><00:38:45.040><c> the</c><00:38:45.119><c> DRAM</c><00:38:45.599><c> thing,</c><00:38:45.760><c> I</c><00:38:45.920><c> mean</c>

But I think on the DRAM thing, I mean the<00:38:46.320><c> fun</c><00:38:46.560><c> the</c><00:38:46.800><c> fun</c><00:38:46.960><c> bet</c><00:38:47.200><c> there</c><00:38:47.440><c> is</c><00:38:47.599><c> I</c><00:38:47.839><c> don't</c> the fun the fun bet there is I don't have<00:38:48.000><c> an</c><00:38:48.240><c> opinion</c><00:38:48.400><c> on</c><00:38:48.560><c> it,</c><00:38:48.720><c> but</c><00:38:49.200><c> those</c><00:38:49.520><c> three</c> have an opinion on it, but those three

companies<00:38:50.160><c> are</c><00:38:50.320><c> all</c><00:38:50.560><c> trading</c><00:38:50.880><c> at,</c><00:38:51.280><c> you</c><00:38:51.440><c> know,</c> companies are all trading at, you know, 5<00:38:52.000><c> to</c><00:38:52.240><c> 8</c><00:38:52.560><c> PES.</c><00:38:53.040><c> In</c><00:38:53.200><c> other</c><00:38:53.359><c> words,</c><00:38:53.839><c> dirt</c><00:38:54.240><c> cheap</c> 5 to 8 PES. In other words, dirt cheap and<00:38:55.280><c> 1</c><00:38:55.520><c> cents</c><00:38:55.839><c> and</c><00:38:56.000><c> any</c><00:38:56.240><c> kind</c><00:38:56.400><c> of</c><00:38:56.560><c> screen</c><00:38:56.960><c> and</c>

and 1 cents and any kind of screen and that's<00:38:57.359><c> the</c><00:38:57.520><c> bull</c><00:38:57.839><c> case</c><00:38:58.320><c> and</c><00:38:58.560><c> this</c><00:38:58.720><c> is</c><00:38:58.880><c> going</c> that's the bull case and this is going to<00:38:59.119><c> last.</c><00:38:59.440><c> And</c><00:38:59.599><c> the</c><00:38:59.760><c> bare</c><00:39:00.079><c> case</c><00:39:00.240><c> is</c><00:39:01.680><c> these</c><00:39:02.000><c> have</c> to last. And the bare case is these have

traditionally<00:39:02.560><c> been</c><00:39:02.880><c> capital</c><00:39:03.359><c> cyclical</c> traditionally been capital cyclical businesses.<00:39:04.480><c> And</c><00:39:04.560><c> the</c><00:39:04.720><c> minute</c><00:39:04.960><c> more</c><00:39:05.200><c> capacity</c> businesses. And the minute more capacity comes<00:39:05.839><c> online,</c><00:39:06.720><c> prices</c><00:39:07.119><c> have</c><00:39:07.280><c> gone</c><00:39:07.520><c> up</c><00:39:07.760><c> 6x</c><00:39:08.240><c> in</c>

comes online, prices have gone up 6x in the<00:39:08.640><c> last</c><00:39:08.800><c> year,</c><00:39:08.960><c> which</c><00:39:09.200><c> is</c><00:39:09.280><c> why</c><00:39:09.520><c> operating</c> the last year, which is why operating margins<00:39:10.480><c> have</c><00:39:10.720><c> gone</c><00:39:10.880><c> from</c><00:39:11.119><c> negative</c><00:39:11.760><c> in</c><00:39:12.079><c> 23</c><00:39:12.880><c> to</c> margins have gone from negative in 23 to like<00:39:13.520><c> 70%.</c><00:39:14.160><c> The</c><00:39:14.320><c> most</c><00:39:14.480><c> profitable</c><00:39:14.880><c> companies</c>

like 70%. The most profitable companies on<00:39:15.280><c> the</c><00:39:15.440><c> planet.</c><00:39:15.920><c> Samsung</c><00:39:16.320><c> is</c><00:39:16.560><c> the</c><00:39:16.720><c> most</c> on the planet. Samsung is the most profitable<00:39:17.119><c> company</c><00:39:17.359><c> on</c><00:39:17.520><c> the</c><00:39:17.680><c> planet</c><00:39:17.839><c> right</c> profitable company on the planet right now.<00:39:18.320><c> And</c><00:39:18.480><c> they're</c><00:39:18.720><c> going</c><00:39:18.800><c> to</c><00:39:18.880><c> go</c><00:39:19.040><c> back</c><00:39:19.200><c> down.</c>

now. And they're going to go back down. So<00:39:20.560><c> that's</c><00:39:20.880><c> the</c><00:39:21.040><c> kind</c><00:39:21.200><c> of</c><00:39:21.359><c> pro</c><00:39:21.599><c> and</c><00:39:21.839><c> con.</c><00:39:23.280><c> I</c> So that's the kind of pro and con. I think<00:39:23.599><c> it'll</c><00:39:23.920><c> last</c><00:39:24.079><c> a</c><00:39:24.320><c> little</c><00:39:24.480><c> longer</c><00:39:24.720><c> than</c> think it'll last a little longer than the<00:39:25.119><c> typical</c><00:39:25.440><c> cycle,</c><00:39:25.760><c> but</c><00:39:25.920><c> in</c><00:39:26.079><c> the</c><00:39:26.160><c> end</c><00:39:26.320><c> it'll</c>

the typical cycle, but in the end it'll I<00:39:27.040><c> mean</c><00:39:27.119><c> at</c><00:39:27.280><c> some</c><00:39:27.440><c> point</c><00:39:27.680><c> it</c><00:39:27.920><c> does</c><00:39:28.160><c> correct.</c> I mean at some point it does correct. You're<00:39:28.880><c> not</c><00:39:29.040><c> going</c><00:39:29.119><c> to</c><00:39:29.200><c> have</c><00:39:29.359><c> the</c><00:39:29.599><c> memory</c> You're not going to have the memory makers<00:39:31.280><c> earning</c><00:39:31.760><c> 70%</c><00:39:33.040><c> not</c><00:39:33.599><c> prop</c><00:39:34.000><c> net</c><00:39:34.240><c> margins,</c>

makers earning 70% not prop net margins, not<00:39:34.880><c> gross</c><00:39:35.119><c> margins,</c><00:39:35.599><c> net</c><00:39:35.839><c> margins</c><00:39:36.240><c> forever.</c> not gross margins, net margins forever. >> One<00:39:39.280><c> thing</c><00:39:39.760><c> maybe</c><00:39:39.760><c> maybe</c><00:39:40.320><c> you'll</c><00:39:40.480><c> challenge</c> >> One thing maybe maybe you'll challenge you'll<00:39:41.520><c> challenge</c><00:39:41.920><c> the</c><00:39:42.240><c> connection.</c><00:39:42.640><c> I</c>

you'll challenge the connection. I thought<00:39:42.960><c> it</c><00:39:43.200><c> was</c><00:39:43.359><c> interesting</c><00:39:44.640><c> that</c><00:39:45.359><c> uh</c><00:39:45.599><c> you</c> thought it was interesting that uh you know<00:39:46.000><c> IBM</c><00:39:46.560><c> this</c><00:39:46.800><c> week</c><00:39:47.200><c> pretty</c><00:39:47.440><c> pretty</c><00:39:47.680><c> old</c> know IBM this week pretty pretty old tech<00:39:48.160><c> company</c><00:39:48.480><c> right</c><00:39:48.640><c> I</c><00:39:48.880><c> think</c><00:39:49.119><c> founded</c><00:39:49.440><c> in</c>

tech company right I think founded in the<00:39:49.839><c> 1800s</c><00:39:50.400><c> or</c><00:39:50.560><c> something</c><00:39:50.720><c> like</c><00:39:50.880><c> that.</c><00:39:51.520><c> Um</c><00:39:52.000><c> I</c> the 1800s or something like that. Um I mean<00:39:52.320><c> they</c><00:39:52.560><c> had</c><00:39:52.640><c> a</c><00:39:52.880><c> huge</c><00:39:53.119><c> miss</c><00:39:53.440><c> stock</c><00:39:53.760><c> crashed</c> mean they had a huge miss stock crashed 20%.<00:39:55.119><c> And</c><00:39:55.359><c> some</c><00:39:55.520><c> of</c><00:39:55.599><c> it</c><00:39:55.839><c> listen</c><00:39:56.240><c> is</c><00:39:56.400><c> probably</c>

20%. And some of it listen is probably an<00:39:56.800><c> excuse.</c><00:39:57.119><c> We</c><00:39:57.280><c> have</c><00:39:57.359><c> to</c><00:39:57.440><c> make</c><00:39:57.599><c> up</c><00:39:57.839><c> excuses</c><00:39:58.160><c> as</c> an excuse. We have to make up excuses as cos<00:39:58.800><c> and</c><00:39:58.880><c> we</c><00:39:58.960><c> have</c><00:39:59.040><c> a</c><00:39:59.200><c> huge</c><00:39:59.359><c> miss.</c><00:40:00.000><c> But</c><00:40:00.160><c> they</c> cos and we have a huge miss. But they

blamed<00:40:00.720><c> memory.</c><00:40:01.440><c> They</c><00:40:01.680><c> said</c><00:40:02.000><c> memory</c><00:40:02.400><c> is</c> blamed memory. They said memory is taking<00:40:03.040><c> so</c><00:40:03.280><c> much</c><00:40:03.440><c> of</c><00:40:03.599><c> the</c><00:40:03.760><c> CIO's</c><00:40:04.240><c> budget.</c> taking so much of the CIO's budget. There<00:40:04.640><c> is</c><00:40:04.800><c> such</c><00:40:04.960><c> a</c><00:40:05.200><c> scramble</c><00:40:06.160><c> to</c><00:40:06.400><c> buy</c><00:40:06.640><c> memory</c>

There is such a scramble to buy memory before<00:40:07.359><c> it</c><00:40:07.520><c> goes</c><00:40:07.839><c> over</c><00:40:08.079><c> up.</c><00:40:08.320><c> They</c><00:40:08.480><c> weren't</c> before it goes over up. They weren't buying<00:40:08.880><c> our</c><00:40:09.119><c> mainframes</c><00:40:09.680><c> or</c><00:40:09.920><c> our</c><00:40:10.160><c> servers</c><00:40:10.480><c> or</c> buying our mainframes or our servers or or<00:40:11.040><c> anything</c><00:40:11.280><c> from</c><00:40:11.520><c> us.</c><00:40:11.760><c> Like</c><00:40:12.160><c> CIOS</c><00:40:12.560><c> went</c><00:40:12.720><c> into</c>

or anything from us. Like CIOS went into a<00:40:13.119><c> panic</c><00:40:13.599><c> to</c><00:40:13.839><c> buy</c><00:40:14.079><c> memory</c><00:40:14.480><c> before</c><00:40:14.800><c> it</c><00:40:14.960><c> would</c> a panic to buy memory before it would get<00:40:15.280><c> even</c><00:40:15.520><c> more</c><00:40:15.680><c> expensive.</c><00:40:16.240><c> And</c><00:40:16.800><c> I'm</c><00:40:17.119><c> sure</c> get even more expensive. And I'm sure it's<00:40:17.440><c> an</c><00:40:17.680><c> excuse,</c><00:40:18.079><c> but</c><00:40:18.320><c> I</c><00:40:18.480><c> I'm</c><00:40:18.720><c> sure</c><00:40:18.880><c> there's</c><00:40:19.040><c> a</c>

it's an excuse, but I I'm sure there's a germ<00:40:19.520><c> of</c><00:40:19.680><c> truth</c><00:40:19.920><c> that</c><00:40:20.079><c> that</c><00:40:20.240><c> that</c><00:40:20.400><c> that</c> germ of truth that that that that money's<00:40:21.280><c> got</c><00:40:21.359><c> to</c><00:40:21.520><c> come</c><00:40:21.599><c> from</c><00:40:21.760><c> somewhere,</c> money's got to come from somewhere, right?<00:40:22.400><c> And</c><00:40:22.560><c> it</c><00:40:22.960><c> IBM</c><00:40:23.440><c> said</c><00:40:23.599><c> it</c><00:40:23.760><c> it</c><00:40:23.920><c> came</c><00:40:24.079><c> out</c><00:40:24.240><c> of</c>

right? And it IBM said it it came out of us. >> Yeah.<00:40:26.240><c> I</c><00:40:26.480><c> think</c><00:40:26.640><c> you're</c><00:40:26.800><c> right,</c><00:40:27.040><c> Jason.</c><00:40:27.440><c> I</c> >> Yeah. I think you're right, Jason. I actually<00:40:27.920><c> don't</c><00:40:28.160><c> I</c><00:40:28.400><c> think</c><00:40:28.480><c> there's</c><00:40:28.720><c> more</c><00:40:28.800><c> than</c> actually don't I think there's more than German.<00:40:29.440><c> Look,</c><00:40:30.000><c> all</c><00:40:30.240><c> money</c><00:40:30.480><c> has</c><00:40:30.720><c> to</c><00:40:30.800><c> come</c><00:40:30.960><c> from</c>

German. Look, all money has to come from somewhere,<00:40:32.240><c> right?</c><00:40:32.880><c> And</c><00:40:33.119><c> if</c><00:40:33.280><c> you're</c><00:40:34.480><c> spending</c> somewhere, right? And if you're spending a<00:40:34.880><c> lot</c><00:40:35.040><c> on</c><00:40:35.119><c> LM</c><00:40:35.599><c> and</c><00:40:35.680><c> then</c><00:40:35.839><c> if</c><00:40:36.000><c> you're</c><00:40:36.079><c> spending</c> a lot on LM and then if you're spending and<00:40:36.560><c> you're</c><00:40:36.720><c> having</c><00:40:36.960><c> to</c><00:40:37.040><c> spend</c><00:40:37.280><c> even</c><00:40:37.520><c> more</c><00:40:37.760><c> on</c>

and you're having to spend even more on your<00:40:38.240><c> memory</c><00:40:38.640><c> needs</c><00:40:39.040><c> because</c><00:40:39.200><c> the</c><00:40:39.440><c> LLMs</c> your memory needs because the LLMs themselves<00:40:40.320><c> are</c><00:40:40.480><c> bidding</c><00:40:40.800><c> up</c><00:40:40.960><c> the</c><00:40:41.119><c> price</c><00:40:41.280><c> of</c> themselves are bidding up the price of memory,<00:40:42.160><c> you</c><00:40:42.400><c> don't</c><00:40:42.480><c> want</c><00:40:42.560><c> to</c><00:40:42.720><c> be</c><00:40:42.880><c> the</c><00:40:43.040><c> last</c>

memory, you don't want to be the last item<00:40:43.520><c> on</c><00:40:43.680><c> the</c><00:40:43.760><c> purchase</c><00:40:44.079><c> order</c><00:40:44.320><c> list</c><00:40:44.560><c> on</c><00:40:44.720><c> the</c> item on the purchase order list on the last<00:40:44.960><c> day</c><00:40:45.119><c> of</c><00:40:45.200><c> the</c><00:40:45.440><c> quarter</c><00:40:46.079><c> cuz</c><00:40:46.320><c> I'm</c><00:40:46.560><c> sure</c> last day of the quarter cuz I'm sure there's<00:40:46.880><c> a</c><00:40:47.040><c> CFO</c><00:40:47.520><c> sitting</c><00:40:47.839><c> there</c><00:40:48.000><c> going,</c><00:40:48.960><c> you</c>

there's a CFO sitting there going, you know,<00:40:49.200><c> what</c><00:40:49.440><c> can</c><00:40:49.520><c> we</c><00:40:49.680><c> cut</c><00:40:50.000><c> because</c><00:40:50.160><c> we</c><00:40:50.320><c> only</c> know, what can we cut because we only have<00:40:50.560><c> a</c><00:40:50.800><c> finite</c><00:40:51.200><c> capex</c><00:40:51.599><c> budget</c><00:40:51.920><c> this</c><00:40:52.160><c> quarter.</c> have a finite capex budget this quarter. And<00:40:52.800><c> it's</c><00:40:52.960><c> what</c><00:40:53.119><c> you</c><00:40:53.280><c> said</c><00:40:53.440><c> also</c><00:40:53.760><c> about</c><00:40:53.920><c> what's</c>

And it's what you said also about what's going<00:40:54.320><c> to</c><00:40:54.400><c> happen</c><00:40:54.560><c> to</c><00:40:54.720><c> the</c><00:40:54.800><c> modular</c><00:40:55.280><c> SAS</c> going to happen to the modular SAS vendor.<00:40:56.240><c> It's</c><00:40:56.400><c> not</c><00:40:56.560><c> that</c><00:40:56.720><c> they're</c><00:40:56.880><c> going</c><00:40:56.960><c> to</c> vendor. It's not that they're going to vibe<00:40:57.440><c> code</c><00:40:57.599><c> of</c><00:40:57.680><c> the</c><00:40:57.839><c> way.</c><00:40:58.000><c> It's</c><00:40:58.160><c> as</c><00:40:58.319><c> much</c><00:40:58.480><c> as</c>

vibe code of the way. It's as much as you<00:40:58.800><c> know</c><00:40:58.960><c> guys,</c><00:40:59.520><c> we</c><00:40:59.760><c> have</c><00:40:59.839><c> a</c><00:41:00.000><c> tech</c><00:41:00.240><c> budget</c><00:41:00.480><c> of</c> you know guys, we have a tech budget of 10<00:41:00.880><c> million</c><00:41:01.200><c> and</c><00:41:01.520><c> last</c><00:41:01.760><c> year</c><00:41:01.920><c> we</c><00:41:02.160><c> spent</c><00:41:02.480><c> 100</c> 10 million and last year we spent 100

grand<00:41:02.960><c> in</c><00:41:03.119><c> AI</c><00:41:03.359><c> and</c><00:41:03.520><c> this</c><00:41:03.680><c> year</c><00:41:03.839><c> we're</c><00:41:04.079><c> spending</c> grand in AI and this year we're spending 3<00:41:04.640><c> million</c><00:41:05.440><c> so</c><00:41:05.599><c> we</c><00:41:05.839><c> need</c><00:41:06.000><c> 2.9</c><00:41:06.560><c> million</c><00:41:06.800><c> in</c> 3 million so we need 2.9 million in savings. >> Yeah. >> And<00:41:08.480><c> it</c><00:41:08.640><c> turns</c><00:41:08.800><c> out</c><00:41:08.960><c> we</c><00:41:09.200><c> don't</c><00:41:09.280><c> need</c><00:41:09.520><c> five</c>

>> And it turns out we don't need five productivity<00:41:10.400><c> apps.</c><00:41:11.119><c> You'll</c><00:41:11.359><c> love</c><00:41:11.680><c> Teams</c> productivity apps. You'll love Teams when<00:41:12.160><c> you</c><00:41:12.319><c> get</c><00:41:12.400><c> to</c><00:41:12.560><c> know</c><00:41:12.720><c> it.</c> when you get to know it. >> And<00:41:13.520><c> maybe</c><00:41:13.680><c> we'll</c><00:41:14.000><c> stick</c><00:41:14.160><c> with</c><00:41:14.319><c> what</c><00:41:14.480><c> we</c><00:41:14.640><c> have</c>

>> And maybe we'll stick with what we have too<00:41:15.119><c> rather</c><00:41:15.359><c> than</c><00:41:15.520><c> buy</c><00:41:15.680><c> that</c><00:41:15.839><c> module</c><00:41:16.160><c> from</c> too rather than buy that module from you. >> Yeah.<00:41:17.238><c> [snorts]</c><00:41:17.440><c> So</c><00:41:17.760><c> yeah,</c><00:41:18.000><c> I</c><00:41:18.240><c> mean</c><00:41:18.400><c> and</c><00:41:18.640><c> IBM</c> >> Yeah. [snorts] So yeah, I mean and IBM did<00:41:19.680><c> tumble</c><00:41:20.079><c> pretty</c><00:41:20.319><c> drastically</c><00:41:20.800><c> today.</c>

did tumble pretty drastically today. I'm<00:41:22.400><c> going</c><00:41:22.480><c> to</c><00:41:22.560><c> go</c><00:41:22.720><c> off</c><00:41:22.880><c> on</c><00:41:22.960><c> a</c><00:41:23.119><c> bit</c><00:41:23.200><c> of</c><00:41:23.280><c> a</c> I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent,<00:41:23.839><c> Rory,</c><00:41:24.079><c> because</c><00:41:24.319><c> you</c><00:41:24.480><c> said,</c><00:41:24.560><c> "Oh,</c> tangent, Rory, because you said, "Oh, there's<00:41:25.040><c> a</c><00:41:25.200><c> world</c><00:41:25.359><c> outside</c><00:41:25.680><c> of</c><00:41:25.839><c> this</c><00:41:26.079><c> like</c>

there's a world outside of this like AI."<00:41:27.040><c> Me</c><00:41:27.280><c> and</c><00:41:27.599><c> Jason</c><00:41:28.079><c> were</c><00:41:28.400><c> messaging</c><00:41:29.599><c> earlier</c> AI." Me and Jason were messaging earlier this<00:41:30.079><c> week</c><00:41:30.240><c> about</c><00:41:30.560><c> Jason</c><00:41:30.960><c> Calacanis's</c> this week about Jason Calacanis's syndicate<00:41:33.119><c> or</c><00:41:33.359><c> investing</c><00:41:33.839><c> activity</c><00:41:34.400><c> where</c><00:41:34.640><c> he</c>

syndicate or investing activity where he basically<00:41:35.440><c> said,</c><00:41:35.599><c> "Hey,</c><00:41:36.319><c> due</c><00:41:36.560><c> to</c><00:41:36.720><c> popular</c> basically said, "Hey, due to popular demand,<00:41:38.079><c> I'm</c><00:41:38.400><c> moving</c><00:41:39.280><c> where</c><00:41:39.520><c> we'll</c><00:41:39.760><c> be</c> demand, I'm moving where we'll be investing<00:41:40.400><c> from</c><00:41:40.640><c> very</c><00:41:40.960><c> early</c><00:41:41.760><c> to</c><00:41:42.319><c> later</c><00:41:42.720><c> stage</c>

investing from very early to later stage growth<00:41:43.920><c> opportunities</c><00:41:44.560><c> in</c><00:41:44.880><c> some</c><00:41:45.040><c> of</c><00:41:45.119><c> the</c><00:41:45.280><c> big</c> growth opportunities in some of the big names.<00:41:46.640><c> Is</c><00:41:46.960><c> this</c><00:41:47.680><c> symbolic</c><00:41:48.240><c> of</c><00:41:48.400><c> where</c><00:41:48.640><c> the</c> names. Is this symbolic of where the venture<00:41:49.280><c> market</c><00:41:49.599><c> is</c><00:41:49.760><c> at</c><00:41:50.079><c> today?"</c><00:41:51.200><c> and</c><00:41:52.400><c> a</c><00:41:52.640><c> sign</c>

venture market is at today?" and a sign of<00:41:53.040><c> the</c><00:41:53.200><c> times.</c><00:41:54.160><c> Jason,</c><00:41:54.560><c> given</c><00:41:54.800><c> it</c><00:41:54.960><c> was</c><00:41:55.119><c> us</c> of the times. Jason, given it was us talking<00:41:55.760><c> about</c><00:41:56.000><c> it,</c><00:41:56.400><c> why</c><00:41:56.560><c> don't</c><00:41:56.720><c> we</c><00:41:56.880><c> start</c> talking about it, why don't we start with<00:41:57.200><c> you</c><00:41:57.520><c> so</c><00:41:58.240><c> we</c><00:41:58.319><c> can</c>

with you so we can >> I<00:41:58.800><c> just</c><00:41:58.880><c> thought</c><00:41:59.040><c> it</c><00:41:59.200><c> was</c><00:41:59.359><c> interesting</c><00:41:59.599><c> for</c> >> I just thought it was interesting for him<00:42:00.000><c> to</c><00:42:00.160><c> say</c><00:42:00.240><c> that</c><00:42:00.560><c> because</c><00:42:01.680><c> actually,</c><00:42:02.079><c> you</c> him to say that because actually, you know,<00:42:02.640><c> we</c><00:42:03.040><c> we</c><00:42:03.599><c> Jason's</c><00:42:04.079><c> got</c><00:42:04.240><c> some</c><00:42:04.400><c> pretty</c><00:42:04.560><c> good</c>

know, we we Jason's got some pretty good investments.<00:42:05.200><c> He</c><00:42:05.359><c> does</c><00:42:05.440><c> a</c><00:42:05.599><c> lot</c><00:42:05.680><c> of</c> investments. He does a lot of investments,<00:42:06.240><c> right?</c><00:42:06.400><c> So,</c><00:42:06.560><c> he's</c><00:42:06.800><c> got</c><00:42:06.880><c> some</c> investments, right? So, he's got some pretty<00:42:07.200><c> good</c><00:42:07.359><c> ones.</c><00:42:08.400><c> You</c><00:42:08.560><c> know,</c><00:42:09.119><c> I</c><00:42:09.280><c> I</c><00:42:09.599><c> thought</c>

pretty good ones. You know, I I thought the<00:42:09.920><c> message</c><00:42:10.240><c> would</c><00:42:10.400><c> be</c><00:42:10.640><c> we're</c><00:42:10.800><c> we're</c><00:42:11.040><c> adding</c> the message would be we're we're adding an<00:42:11.440><c> annex</c><00:42:11.920><c> fund,</c><00:42:12.160><c> right?</c><00:42:12.400><c> Or</c><00:42:12.560><c> we're</c><00:42:12.720><c> going</c><00:42:12.800><c> to</c> an annex fund, right? Or we're going to do<00:42:13.040><c> a</c><00:42:13.280><c> little</c><00:42:13.359><c> bit</c><00:42:13.520><c> more</c><00:42:13.760><c> here.</c><00:42:14.160><c> But</c><00:42:14.480><c> to</c><00:42:14.720><c> say</c>

do a little bit more here. But to say that<00:42:15.040><c> he</c><00:42:16.240><c> has</c><00:42:16.480><c> put</c><00:42:16.800><c> so</c><00:42:17.200><c> much</c><00:42:17.359><c> energy</c><00:42:17.920><c> over</c> that he has put so much energy over decades,<00:42:18.960><c> right,</c><00:42:19.280><c> into</c><00:42:19.839><c> creating</c><00:42:20.160><c> an</c> decades, right, into creating an alternative<00:42:20.960><c> path</c><00:42:21.200><c> to</c><00:42:21.440><c> do</c><00:42:21.599><c> massive</c><00:42:22.000><c> number</c><00:42:22.160><c> of</c>

alternative path to do massive number of syndicated<00:42:22.880><c> investments</c><00:42:23.839><c> to</c><00:42:24.240><c> apparently</c> syndicated investments to apparently tilting<00:42:25.200><c> all</c><00:42:25.440><c> into</c><00:42:25.760><c> growth,</c><00:42:26.319><c> you</c><00:42:26.480><c> know,</c><00:42:26.640><c> it</c><00:42:26.800><c> is</c> tilting all into growth, you know, it is it's<00:42:27.280><c> the</c><00:42:27.760><c> in</c><00:42:28.240><c> a</c><00:42:28.400><c> niche,</c><00:42:28.640><c> it's</c><00:42:28.880><c> a</c><00:42:28.960><c> huge</c><00:42:29.119><c> sign</c><00:42:29.280><c> of</c>

it's the in a niche, it's a huge sign of the<00:42:29.599><c> times,</c><00:42:30.160><c> right?</c><00:42:30.400><c> It's</c><00:42:30.560><c> a</c><00:42:30.720><c> huge</c><00:42:30.880><c> sign</c><00:42:30.960><c> of</c> the times, right? It's a huge sign of times<00:42:31.359><c> rather</c><00:42:31.599><c> than</c><00:42:31.839><c> than</c><00:42:32.079><c> easing</c><00:42:32.480><c> into</c><00:42:32.720><c> it.</c> times rather than than easing into it. Um,<00:42:34.079><c> but</c><00:42:34.720><c> completely</c><00:42:35.280><c> switching</c><00:42:35.760><c> when</c><00:42:36.000><c> you've</c>

Um, but completely switching when you've got<00:42:36.400><c> multiple</c><00:42:37.119><c> billion</c><00:42:37.520><c> dollar</c><00:42:37.760><c> winners</c><00:42:38.800><c> uh</c> got multiple billion dollar winners uh that<00:42:39.040><c> you</c><00:42:39.200><c> have</c><00:42:39.359><c> material</c><00:42:39.760><c> ownership</c><00:42:40.160><c> in</c><00:42:40.400><c> is</c> that you have material ownership in is is<00:42:41.119><c> to</c><00:42:41.280><c> me</c><00:42:41.440><c> it's</c><00:42:41.680><c> a</c><00:42:41.839><c> big</c><00:42:42.000><c> deal,</c><00:42:42.319><c> right?</c><00:42:42.640><c> Um,</c><00:42:42.960><c> I</c>

is to me it's a big deal, right? Um, I mean,<00:42:43.280><c> seeds</c><00:42:43.520><c> for</c><00:42:43.680><c> suckers,</c><00:42:44.160><c> as</c><00:42:44.319><c> we've</c><00:42:44.560><c> known</c> mean, seeds for suckers, as we've known for<00:42:44.960><c> 60something</c><00:42:45.520><c> weeks,</c><00:42:45.839><c> this</c><00:42:46.000><c> is</c><00:42:46.079><c> the</c><00:42:46.400><c> this</c> for 60something weeks, this is the this is<00:42:46.800><c> the</c><00:42:47.280><c> other</c><00:42:47.520><c> than</c><00:42:47.680><c> YC</c><00:42:48.160><c> dumping</c><00:42:48.560><c> early</c>

is the other than YC dumping early stage,<00:42:49.200><c> that</c><00:42:49.359><c> would</c><00:42:49.520><c> be</c><00:42:49.520><c> a</c><00:42:49.680><c> real</c><00:42:49.839><c> sign,</c><00:42:50.160><c> right?</c> stage, that would be a real sign, right? YC<00:42:50.880><c> issuing</c><00:42:51.280><c> a</c><00:42:51.760><c> uh</c><00:42:52.240><c> going</c><00:42:52.480><c> on</c><00:42:52.640><c> threads</c><00:42:53.359><c> and</c> YC issuing a uh going on threads and telling<00:42:53.920><c> everybody</c><00:42:54.319><c> we're</c><00:42:54.480><c> only</c><00:42:54.720><c> doing</c>

telling everybody we're only doing growth<00:42:55.200><c> rounds,</c><00:42:55.520><c> that</c><00:42:55.599><c> that</c><00:42:55.920><c> would</c><00:42:56.160><c> that</c> growth rounds, that that would that would<00:42:56.480><c> rock</c><00:42:56.800><c> the</c><00:42:57.040><c> world.</c><00:42:57.520><c> But</c><00:42:58.079><c> it</c><00:42:58.319><c> I</c><00:42:58.400><c> I</c><00:42:58.640><c> thought</c> would rock the world. But it I I thought it<00:42:58.880><c> was</c><00:42:58.960><c> a</c><00:42:59.119><c> bit</c><00:42:59.359><c> more</c><00:42:59.839><c> I</c><00:43:00.079><c> thought</c><00:43:00.160><c> it</c><00:43:00.400><c> was</c><00:43:00.640><c> at</c>

it was a bit more I thought it was at least<00:43:00.960><c> a</c><00:43:01.119><c> sign</c><00:43:01.280><c> of</c><00:43:01.440><c> the</c><00:43:01.599><c> times.</c><00:43:02.694><c> [snorts]</c> least a sign of the times. [snorts] Everything's<00:43:04.800><c> up.</c><00:43:05.040><c> And</c><00:43:05.280><c> when</c><00:43:05.520><c> everything</c><00:43:05.920><c> can</c> Everything's up. And when everything can exit<00:43:06.560><c> north</c><00:43:06.800><c> of</c><00:43:07.040><c> 20</c><00:43:07.280><c> billion,</c><00:43:08.400><c> you</c><00:43:08.640><c> know,</c><00:43:08.960><c> it's</c>

exit north of 20 billion, you know, it's uh<00:43:10.880><c> it's</c><00:43:11.440><c> uh</c><00:43:11.680><c> I</c><00:43:11.920><c> even</c><00:43:12.079><c> me</c><00:43:12.400><c> like</c><00:43:12.560><c> I</c><00:43:12.720><c> have</c><00:43:12.800><c> an</c> uh it's uh I even me like I have an investment with<00:43:14.960><c> a</c><00:43:15.040><c> hundred</c><00:43:15.359><c> million</c><00:43:15.680><c> dollar</c><00:43:15.920><c> position</c> with a hundred million dollar position that<00:43:16.480><c> took</c><00:43:16.720><c> me</c><00:43:16.880><c> years</c><00:43:17.040><c> and</c><00:43:17.280><c> years</c><00:43:17.440><c> and</c><00:43:17.680><c> years</c>

that took me years and years and years to<00:43:18.000><c> get</c><00:43:18.160><c> to</c><00:43:18.400><c> right</c><00:43:18.640><c> now.</c><00:43:18.960><c> And</c><00:43:19.119><c> then</c><00:43:19.359><c> just</c> to get to right now. And then just watching<00:43:19.760><c> a</c><00:43:19.920><c> growth</c><00:43:20.160><c> round</c><00:43:20.400><c> where</c><00:43:20.560><c> someone</c> watching a growth round where someone comes<00:43:20.880><c> in</c><00:43:21.040><c> and</c><00:43:21.200><c> invests</c><00:43:21.599><c> 100</c><00:43:21.760><c> million</c><00:43:22.000><c> like</c>

comes in and invests 100 million like what<00:43:22.400><c> why</c><00:43:22.640><c> did</c><00:43:22.720><c> I</c><00:43:22.880><c> bother?</c> what why did I bother? All<00:43:24.960><c> the</c><00:43:25.200><c> drama,</c><00:43:25.599><c> all</c><00:43:25.760><c> the</c><00:43:26.000><c> years,</c><00:43:26.480><c> all</c><00:43:26.640><c> the</c> All the drama, all the years, all the being<00:43:27.680><c> the</c><00:43:27.839><c> only</c><00:43:28.079><c> guy</c><00:43:28.160><c> at</c><00:43:28.400><c> the</c><00:43:28.480><c> board</c><00:43:28.720><c> meeting</c>

being the only guy at the board meeting when<00:43:29.200><c> someone</c><00:43:29.359><c> just</c><00:43:29.599><c> drops</c><00:43:29.839><c> a</c><00:43:30.000><c> $100</c><00:43:30.240><c> million</c> when someone just drops a $100 million check.<00:43:30.960><c> If</c><00:43:31.119><c> that</c><00:43:31.280><c> can</c><00:43:31.440><c> if</c><00:43:31.680><c> that</c><00:43:31.839><c> can</c><00:43:32.000><c> grow</c><00:43:32.560><c> an</c> check. If that can if that can grow an order<00:43:32.960><c> of</c><00:43:33.119><c> magnitude,</c><00:43:33.599><c> what's</c><00:43:33.760><c> what's</c><00:43:34.000><c> the</c>

order of magnitude, what's what's the point<00:43:34.240><c> of</c><00:43:34.400><c> being</c><00:43:34.560><c> the</c><00:43:34.720><c> guy</c><00:43:34.880><c> any</c><00:43:35.200><c> earlier</c><00:43:35.520><c> than</c> point of being the guy any earlier than there,<00:43:35.920><c> right?</c><00:43:36.160><c> No</c><00:43:36.560><c> existential</c><00:43:37.200><c> point</c> there, right? No existential point >> because<00:43:38.560><c> you</c><00:43:38.800><c> love</c><00:43:38.960><c> the</c><00:43:39.280><c> craft.</c>

>> because you love the craft. >> I<00:43:40.880><c> don't</c><00:43:41.040><c> love</c><00:43:41.119><c> the</c><00:43:41.280><c> craft.</c><00:43:41.599><c> Who</c><00:43:41.760><c> the</c><00:43:41.920><c> hell</c> >> I don't love the craft. Who the hell loves<00:43:42.319><c> the</c><00:43:42.480><c> craft?</c> loves the craft? >> David<00:43:43.760><c> Franle,</c><00:43:44.319><c> I</c><00:43:44.560><c> interviewed</c><00:43:44.880><c> him</c> >> David Franle, I interviewed him

yesterday. >> He<00:43:45.680><c> does</c><00:43:45.760><c> love</c><00:43:46.000><c> that</c><00:43:46.160><c> man</c><00:43:46.319><c> loves</c><00:43:46.560><c> the</c><00:43:46.720><c> craft.</c> >> He does love that man loves the craft. More<00:43:47.359><c> than</c><00:43:47.520><c> he</c><00:43:47.680><c> loves</c><00:43:47.920><c> the</c><00:43:48.160><c> craft</c><00:43:48.720><c> so</c><00:43:48.960><c> much.</c> More than he loves the craft so much. >> Yeah.<00:43:49.920><c> Yeah.</c><00:43:50.560><c> Replace</c><00:43:50.960><c> me</c><00:43:51.119><c> with</c><00:43:51.280><c> him</c><00:43:51.440><c> on</c><00:43:51.599><c> this</c>

>> Yeah. Yeah. Replace me with him on this pod.<00:43:52.160><c> That</c><00:43:52.319><c> man,</c><00:43:52.880><c> that</c><00:43:53.200><c> man</c><00:43:53.599><c> will</c><00:43:53.920><c> be</c><00:43:54.560><c> doing</c> pod. That man, that man will be doing deals<00:43:55.760><c> from</c><00:43:56.000><c> the</c><00:43:56.160><c> old</c><00:43:56.319><c> folks</c><00:43:56.640><c> home,</c><00:43:57.040><c> right?</c><00:43:57.359><c> Uh</c> deals from the old folks home, right? Uh and<00:43:57.760><c> he'll</c><00:43:58.000><c> be</c><00:43:58.079><c> getting</c><00:43:58.319><c> good</c><00:43:58.480><c> ones.</c><00:43:58.720><c> And</c>

and he'll be getting good ones. And he'll<00:43:59.119><c> be</c><00:43:59.200><c> getting</c><00:43:59.440><c> good</c><00:43:59.599><c> ones.</c><00:44:00.160><c> I</c><00:44:00.319><c> would</c><00:44:00.960><c> love</c> he'll be getting good ones. I would love I<00:44:01.760><c> love</c><00:44:01.920><c> David.</c> I love David. >> So<00:44:03.280><c> do</c><00:44:03.440><c> I.</c><00:44:03.680><c> Please.</c><00:44:04.000><c> That</c><00:44:04.160><c> was</c><00:44:04.240><c> me</c><00:44:04.480><c> defending</c>

>> So do I. Please. That was me defending his<00:44:05.200><c> love</c><00:44:05.359><c> of</c><00:44:05.440><c> the</c><00:44:05.599><c> craft.</c><00:44:05.839><c> I</c><00:44:06.000><c> was</c><00:44:06.079><c> with</c><00:44:06.240><c> him</c> his love of the craft. I was with him and<00:44:06.560><c> I</c><00:44:06.640><c> was</c><00:44:06.720><c> like</c><00:44:07.440><c> loves</c><00:44:07.680><c> the</c><00:44:07.839><c> craft.</c> and I was like loves the craft. >> But<00:44:08.960><c> to</c><00:44:09.200><c> give</c><00:44:09.359><c> it</c><00:44:09.520><c> good</c><00:44:09.680><c> framing,</c><00:44:10.160><c> I</c><00:44:10.400><c> hear</c><00:44:10.560><c> you.</c>

>> But to give it good framing, I hear you. But<00:44:11.359><c> I</c><00:44:11.599><c> think</c><00:44:11.760><c> this</c><00:44:12.079><c> really</c><00:44:13.280><c> kind</c><00:44:13.520><c> of</c><00:44:13.839><c> this</c> But I think this really kind of this whole<00:44:14.319><c> idea</c><00:44:14.800><c> of</c><00:44:15.280><c> you</c><00:44:15.440><c> know</c><00:44:15.599><c> venture</c><00:44:16.319><c> early</c> whole idea of you know venture early versus<00:44:17.200><c> venture</c><00:44:17.680><c> late.</c><00:44:18.240><c> Yeah.</c><00:44:18.560><c> How</c><00:44:18.880><c> that's</c>

versus venture late. Yeah. How that's really<00:44:19.440><c> the</c><00:44:19.599><c> question.</c><00:44:19.839><c> How</c><00:44:19.920><c> do</c><00:44:20.000><c> you</c><00:44:20.160><c> think</c> really the question. How do you think about<00:44:20.480><c> that?</c><00:44:20.880><c> Right.</c><00:44:21.200><c> And</c><00:44:21.440><c> you</c><00:44:21.599><c> know</c><00:44:21.760><c> the</c><00:44:21.920><c> the</c> about that? Right. And you know the the tright<00:44:22.640><c> answer</c><00:44:22.880><c> I</c><00:44:23.119><c> could</c><00:44:23.200><c> give</c><00:44:23.359><c> and</c><00:44:23.599><c> you</c><00:44:23.680><c> know</c>

tright answer I could give and you know I<00:44:24.000><c> always</c><00:44:24.160><c> like</c><00:44:24.319><c> to</c><00:44:24.480><c> leave</c><00:44:24.640><c> with</c><00:44:24.800><c> the</c><00:44:25.200><c> lead</c> I always like to leave with the lead with<00:44:25.599><c> the</c><00:44:25.760><c> snarky</c><00:44:26.240><c> trite</c><00:44:26.560><c> answer</c><00:44:26.880><c> is</c> with the snarky trite answer is generally<00:44:28.160><c> when</c><00:44:28.400><c> it</c><00:44:28.560><c> something</c><00:44:28.880><c> looks</c><00:44:29.119><c> easy</c>

generally when it something looks easy in<00:44:29.839><c> investing</c><00:44:30.240><c> is</c><00:44:31.040><c> precisely</c><00:44:31.599><c> the</c><00:44:31.839><c> time</c><00:44:32.000><c> you</c> in investing is precisely the time you shouldn't<00:44:32.560><c> do</c><00:44:32.720><c> it</c><00:44:32.960><c> and</c><00:44:33.200><c> late</c><00:44:33.440><c> stage</c><00:44:33.760><c> looks</c> shouldn't do it and late stage looks very<00:44:34.240><c> easy</c><00:44:34.560><c> right</c><00:44:34.720><c> now.</c><00:44:35.040><c> So</c><00:44:35.200><c> that's</c><00:44:35.440><c> kind</c><00:44:35.599><c> of</c>

very easy right now. So that's kind of the<00:44:36.160><c> natural</c><00:44:36.480><c> contrarian</c><00:44:36.960><c> in</c><00:44:37.119><c> me.</c><00:44:37.359><c> But</c><00:44:37.520><c> I</c> the natural contrarian in me. But I think<00:44:37.920><c> really</c><00:44:38.160><c> what's</c><00:44:38.480><c> going</c><00:44:38.560><c> on</c><00:44:38.880><c> Harry</c><00:44:39.119><c> is</c> think really what's going on Harry is there's<00:44:39.920><c> almost</c><00:44:40.319><c> there's</c><00:44:40.560><c> there's</c><00:44:40.800><c> three</c>

there's almost there's there's three different<00:44:41.200><c> things</c><00:44:41.280><c> you</c><00:44:41.520><c> have</c><00:44:41.599><c> to</c><00:44:41.760><c> think</c><00:44:41.920><c> about</c> different things you have to think about right<00:44:42.800><c> and</c><00:44:42.960><c> I</c><00:44:43.119><c> put</c><00:44:43.200><c> them</c><00:44:43.359><c> out</c><00:44:43.440><c> there.</c><00:44:43.839><c> is</c> right and I put them out there. is there's<00:44:45.200><c> there's</c><00:44:45.599><c> this</c><00:44:45.839><c> big</c><00:44:46.160><c> secular</c><00:44:46.640><c> trend</c>

there's there's this big secular trend in<00:44:48.480><c> private</c><00:44:49.040><c> company</c><00:44:49.440><c> financings</c><00:44:50.079><c> which</c><00:44:50.319><c> is</c> in private company financings which is as<00:44:51.200><c> we</c><00:44:51.440><c> said</c><00:44:51.599><c> the</c><00:44:51.760><c> early</c><00:44:52.000><c> stage</c><00:44:52.319><c> business</c> as we said the early stage business hasn't<00:44:53.040><c> changed</c><00:44:53.359><c> all</c><00:44:53.599><c> that</c><00:44:53.839><c> much</c><00:44:54.079><c> in</c><00:44:54.319><c> two</c>

hasn't changed all that much in two hasn't<00:44:54.960><c> got</c><00:44:55.200><c> that</c><00:44:55.440><c> much</c><00:44:55.680><c> bigger</c><00:44:56.480><c> in</c><00:44:56.800><c> the</c><00:44:57.040><c> last</c> hasn't got that much bigger in the last two<00:44:57.839><c> decades</c><00:44:58.640><c> but</c><00:44:58.880><c> on</c><00:44:59.119><c> top</c><00:44:59.200><c> of</c><00:44:59.359><c> that</c><00:44:59.599><c> a</c><00:44:59.920><c> 5x</c> two decades but on top of that a 5x

bigger<00:45:00.880><c> late</c><00:45:01.119><c> stage</c><00:45:01.440><c> business</c><00:45:01.760><c> has</c><00:45:02.000><c> emerged</c> bigger late stage business has emerged as<00:45:02.800><c> companies</c><00:45:03.359><c> a</c><00:45:03.680><c> haven't</c><00:45:04.000><c> gone</c><00:45:04.720><c> public</c><00:45:05.200><c> as</c> as companies a haven't gone public as much<00:45:05.599><c> and</c><00:45:05.760><c> b</c><00:45:06.000><c> in</c><00:45:06.160><c> the</c><00:45:06.240><c> case</c><00:45:06.319><c> of</c><00:45:06.480><c> something</c><00:45:06.640><c> like</c>

much and b in the case of something like opening<00:45:07.040><c> eye</c><00:45:07.200><c> and</c><00:45:07.280><c> traffic</c><00:45:07.599><c> just</c><00:45:07.680><c> became</c> opening eye and traffic just became bigger<00:45:08.240><c> quicker</c><00:45:08.800><c> right</c><00:45:09.280><c> so</c><00:45:09.760><c> there's</c><00:45:10.000><c> been</c> bigger quicker right so there's been this<00:45:10.480><c> new</c><00:45:10.720><c> business</c><00:45:11.440><c> for</c><00:45:11.680><c> late</c><00:45:11.731><c> [snorts]</c>

this new business for late [snorts] stage<00:45:12.240><c> on</c><00:45:12.400><c> top</c><00:45:12.640><c> and</c><00:45:12.800><c> there's</c><00:45:12.960><c> no</c><00:45:13.119><c> doubt</c> stage on top and there's no doubt You<00:45:14.079><c> know,</c><00:45:14.480><c> looking</c><00:45:14.880><c> back</c><00:45:15.280><c> 15</c><00:45:15.599><c> years,</c><00:45:15.920><c> if</c><00:45:16.160><c> you</c> You know, looking back 15 years, if you said<00:45:16.560><c> you</c><00:45:16.720><c> can</c><00:45:16.800><c> enter</c><00:45:17.040><c> the</c><00:45:17.280><c> one</c><00:45:17.440><c> business</c>

said you can enter the one business that's<00:45:18.000><c> been</c><00:45:18.160><c> around</c><00:45:18.400><c> for</c><00:45:18.720><c> 30</c><00:45:19.040><c> years</c><00:45:19.680><c> and</c><00:45:20.000><c> has</c> that's been around for 30 years and has 200<00:45:20.640><c> very</c><00:45:20.960><c> good</c><00:45:21.200><c> competitors,</c><00:45:22.400><c> or</c><00:45:22.560><c> you</c><00:45:22.720><c> can</c> 200 very good competitors, or you can enter<00:45:23.040><c> this</c><00:45:23.280><c> new</c><00:45:23.520><c> business</c><00:45:23.839><c> which</c><00:45:24.000><c> didn't</c>

enter this new business which didn't exist<00:45:24.640><c> before</c><00:45:24.960><c> and</c><00:45:25.200><c> has</c><00:45:25.440><c> relatively</c><00:45:25.920><c> few</c> exist before and has relatively few competitors.<00:45:27.280><c> All</c><00:45:27.440><c> other</c><00:45:27.760><c> things</c><00:45:28.000><c> been</c> competitors. All other things been equal,<00:45:29.359><c> the</c><00:45:29.599><c> late</c><00:45:30.480><c> that</c><00:45:30.800><c> latest</c><00:45:31.119><c> stage</c>

equal, the late that latest stage opportunity<00:45:31.920><c> in</c><00:45:32.319><c> 2005</c><00:45:33.520><c> from</c><00:45:33.760><c> then</c><00:45:33.920><c> on</c><00:45:34.240><c> looked</c> opportunity in 2005 from then on looked in<00:45:35.280><c> retrospect</c><00:45:35.839><c> looked</c><00:45:36.000><c> like</c><00:45:36.160><c> the</c><00:45:36.319><c> easiest</c> in retrospect looked like the easiest place<00:45:36.800><c> to</c><00:45:36.960><c> play.</c><00:45:37.440><c> So</c><00:45:37.599><c> there's</c><00:45:37.839><c> definitely</c>

place to play. So there's definitely this<00:45:38.400><c> kind</c><00:45:38.560><c> of</c><00:45:38.640><c> secular</c><00:45:39.119><c> trend,</c><00:45:40.079><c> right?</c><00:45:40.319><c> And</c> this kind of secular trend, right? And you<00:45:40.640><c> look</c><00:45:40.800><c> like</c><00:45:41.599><c> not</c><00:45:41.760><c> even</c><00:45:41.920><c> getting</c><00:45:42.079><c> on</c><00:45:42.240><c> to</c><00:45:42.400><c> two</c> you look like not even getting on to two or<00:45:42.720><c> three,</c><00:45:42.800><c> but</c><00:45:43.040><c> you're</c><00:45:43.119><c> shaking</c><00:45:43.359><c> your</c><00:45:43.520><c> head</c>

or three, but you're shaking your head already,<00:45:44.000><c> Harry.</c> already, Harry. >> No,<00:45:45.119><c> no.</c><00:45:45.440><c> I</c><00:45:45.520><c> I</c><00:45:45.599><c> I</c><00:45:46.000><c> totally</c><00:45:46.240><c> get</c><00:45:46.319><c> it.</c><00:45:46.480><c> I</c><00:45:46.640><c> I</c><00:45:46.800><c> I've</c> >> No, no. I I I totally get it. I I I've had<00:45:47.200><c> a</c><00:45:47.280><c> lot</c><00:45:47.440><c> of</c><00:45:47.520><c> cynical</c><00:45:48.079><c> kind</c><00:45:48.240><c> of</c>

had a lot of cynical kind of respectfully<00:45:49.040><c> older</c><00:45:49.359><c> people</c><00:45:50.000><c> talk</c><00:45:50.160><c> to</c><00:45:50.319><c> me</c> respectfully older people talk to me about<00:45:50.640><c> this.</c><00:45:50.880><c> And</c><00:45:51.040><c> I'm</c><00:45:51.200><c> not</c><00:45:51.280><c> suggesting</c> about this. And I'm not suggesting that's<00:45:51.920><c> you.</c><00:45:52.319><c> Um,</c><00:45:52.640><c> by</c><00:45:52.800><c> the</c><00:45:52.880><c> way,</c>

that's you. Um, by the way, >> I'm<00:45:54.000><c> cynical</c><00:45:54.880><c> than</c><00:45:54.960><c> you,</c><00:45:55.119><c> Harry.</c><00:45:55.440><c> So,</c><00:45:55.520><c> you</c> >> I'm cynical than you, Harry. So, you are,<00:45:55.760><c> but</c><00:45:56.000><c> it's</c><00:45:56.160><c> okay.</c><00:45:56.400><c> But</c><00:45:56.560><c> I</c><00:45:56.640><c> actually</c> are, but it's okay. But I actually >> And<00:45:57.599><c> they're</c><00:45:57.680><c> always</c><00:45:57.920><c> like,</c><00:45:58.079><c> "Oh,</c><00:45:58.400><c> I've</c><00:45:58.560><c> seen</c>

>> And they're always like, "Oh, I've seen this<00:45:59.040><c> every</c><00:45:59.520><c> cycle.</c><00:46:00.160><c> I</c><00:46:00.319><c> see</c><00:46:00.480><c> this</c><00:46:00.640><c> every</c><00:46:01.760><c> stop.</c> this every cycle. I see this every stop. I'm<00:46:02.400><c> going</c><00:46:02.480><c> to</c><00:46:02.560><c> push</c><00:46:02.880><c> right</c><00:46:03.119><c> back</c><00:46:03.280><c> in</c><00:46:03.440><c> your</c> I'm going to push right back in your face<00:46:04.079><c> because</c><00:46:04.240><c> I</c><00:46:04.400><c> didn't</c><00:46:04.560><c> even</c><00:46:04.960><c> I</c><00:46:05.119><c> actually</c>

face because I didn't even I actually made<00:46:05.440><c> a</c><00:46:05.680><c> secular</c><00:46:06.000><c> comment.</c><00:46:06.319><c> I'm</c><00:46:06.560><c> going</c><00:46:06.640><c> to</c> made a secular comment. I'm going to make<00:46:06.800><c> a</c><00:46:06.880><c> cyclical</c><00:46:07.359><c> comment</c><00:46:07.599><c> in</c><00:46:07.760><c> a</c><00:46:08.000><c> second."</c> make a cyclical comment in a second." Right.<00:46:08.880><c> I</c><00:46:09.119><c> made</c><00:46:09.280><c> a</c><00:46:09.440><c> secular</c><00:46:09.839><c> comment</c><00:46:10.160><c> which</c><00:46:10.319><c> is</c>

Right. I made a secular comment which is really<00:46:10.640><c> precise</c><00:46:10.960><c> here.</c><00:46:11.359><c> What</c><00:46:11.599><c> I</c><00:46:12.079><c> I'm</c><00:46:12.240><c> actually</c> really precise here. What I I'm actually agreeing<00:46:12.960><c> with</c><00:46:13.119><c> you</c><00:46:13.280><c> Harry.</c><00:46:13.599><c> I'm</c><00:46:13.839><c> saying</c><00:46:14.400><c> the</c> agreeing with you Harry. I'm saying the secular<00:46:14.960><c> trend</c><00:46:15.200><c> is</c><00:46:15.520><c> this</c><00:46:15.839><c> category</c><00:46:16.319><c> didn't</c>

secular trend is this category didn't exist<00:46:17.280><c> and</c><00:46:17.520><c> now</c><00:46:17.760><c> it</c><00:46:17.920><c> will</c><00:46:18.160><c> exist</c><00:46:18.720><c> across</c> exist and now it will exist across cycles.<00:46:20.319><c> This</c><00:46:20.640><c> new</c><00:46:20.880><c> business</c><00:46:21.359><c> called</c><00:46:21.839><c> no</c><00:46:22.079><c> one</c> cycles. This new business called no one in<00:46:22.720><c> venture</c><00:46:23.760><c> when</c><00:46:24.000><c> I</c><00:46:24.480><c> started</c><00:46:25.040><c> forget</c><00:46:25.359><c> 94</c><00:46:25.920><c> even</c>

in venture when I started forget 94 even in<00:46:26.480><c> 2004</c><00:46:27.280><c> was</c><00:46:27.520><c> writing</c><00:46:27.920><c> hund00</c><00:46:28.319><c> million</c><00:46:28.960><c> late</c> in 2004 was writing hund00 million late stage<00:46:29.520><c> checks</c><00:46:29.839><c> and</c><00:46:30.000><c> now</c><00:46:30.160><c> it's</c><00:46:30.400><c> a</c><00:46:30.560><c> thing.</c><00:46:31.040><c> It</c><00:46:31.200><c> is</c> stage checks and now it's a thing. It is a<00:46:31.520><c> new</c><00:46:31.760><c> class</c><00:46:32.160><c> of</c><00:46:32.400><c> financial</c><00:46:32.960><c> product</c><00:46:33.599><c> private</c>

a new class of financial product private hund00<00:46:34.560><c> million</c><00:46:35.119><c> checks</c><00:46:35.839><c> in</c><00:46:36.160><c> companies</c> hund00 million checks in companies already<00:46:36.880><c> worth</c><00:46:37.119><c> a</c><00:46:37.280><c> billion</c><00:46:37.599><c> dollars.</c><00:46:38.160><c> It's</c><00:46:38.480><c> a</c> already worth a billion dollars. It's a new<00:46:38.960><c> thing.</c><00:46:39.440><c> So,</c><00:46:39.599><c> I'm</c><00:46:39.839><c> not</c><00:46:40.079><c> doing</c><00:46:40.240><c> the</c><00:46:40.480><c> old</c>

new thing. So, I'm not doing the old guy.<00:46:41.040><c> It's</c><00:46:41.200><c> just</c><00:46:41.440><c> cyclical.</c><00:46:42.000><c> I'm</c><00:46:42.160><c> actually</c> guy. It's just cyclical. I'm actually going<00:46:42.480><c> to</c><00:46:42.560><c> do</c><00:46:42.640><c> that</c><00:46:42.800><c> in</c><00:46:42.960><c> a</c><00:46:43.200><c> second.</c><00:46:43.920><c> But</c><00:46:44.079><c> right</c> going to do that in a second. But right now,<00:46:44.560><c> I'm</c><00:46:44.880><c> saying</c><00:46:45.760><c> in</c><00:46:46.079><c> retrospect,</c><00:46:47.359><c> it</c>

now, I'm saying in retrospect, it actually<00:46:47.920><c> is</c><00:46:48.079><c> a</c><00:46:48.240><c> whole</c><00:46:48.400><c> new</c><00:46:48.640><c> category</c><00:46:49.040><c> of</c> actually is a whole new category of venture.<00:46:49.520><c> It's</c><00:46:49.680><c> not</c><00:46:49.839><c> replacing</c><00:46:51.040><c> baby</c> venture. It's not replacing baby venture.<00:46:52.240><c> It's</c><00:46:52.400><c> kind</c><00:46:52.560><c> of</c><00:46:52.640><c> adding</c><00:46:52.880><c> a</c><00:46:53.040><c> whole</c><00:46:53.200><c> new</c>

venture. It's kind of adding a whole new category<00:46:53.680><c> on</c><00:46:53.839><c> top,</c><00:46:54.800><c> right?</c><00:46:55.280><c> And</c><00:46:55.680><c> the</c><00:46:55.920><c> world</c> category on top, right? And the world needs<00:46:56.400><c> that</c><00:46:56.560><c> category</c><00:46:57.040><c> cuz</c><00:46:57.520><c> these</c><00:46:57.920><c> companies</c> needs that category cuz these companies aren't<00:46:58.480><c> public.</c><00:46:58.880><c> So,</c><00:46:59.280><c> you</c><00:46:59.440><c> know,</c><00:46:59.599><c> the</c>

aren't public. So, you know, the altimeters,<00:47:00.480><c> the</c><00:47:00.640><c> thrives,</c><00:47:01.599><c> the</c><00:47:02.319><c> latest</c> altimeters, the thrives, the latest stage<00:47:02.800><c> part</c><00:47:02.960><c> of</c><00:47:03.119><c> their</c><00:47:03.280><c> business,</c><00:47:03.680><c> all</c><00:47:03.920><c> those</c> stage part of their business, all those guys<00:47:04.400><c> have</c><00:47:04.720><c> replaced</c><00:47:05.520><c> what</c><00:47:05.839><c> would</c><00:47:06.000><c> have</c><00:47:06.240><c> been</c>

guys have replaced what would have been public<00:47:06.720><c> companies,</c><00:47:07.200><c> right?</c><00:47:07.440><c> So</c><00:47:07.599><c> that's</c><00:47:07.839><c> kind</c> public companies, right? So that's kind of<00:47:08.160><c> not</c><00:47:08.400><c> cynical.</c><00:47:08.880><c> Now</c><00:47:09.040><c> the</c><00:47:09.200><c> cynical</c><00:47:09.599><c> comment</c> of not cynical. Now the cynical comment I'll<00:47:10.079><c> make</c><00:47:10.240><c> is</c><00:47:10.560><c> on</c><00:47:10.800><c> top</c><00:47:10.960><c> of</c><00:47:11.040><c> a</c><00:47:11.280><c> secular</c><00:47:11.680><c> change.</c>

I'll make is on top of a secular change. You<00:47:12.880><c> do</c><00:47:13.040><c> also</c><00:47:13.359><c> have</c><00:47:14.560><c> a</c><00:47:15.119><c> cyclical</c><00:47:15.680><c> thing</c><00:47:16.319><c> and</c> You do also have a cyclical thing and there's<00:47:16.800><c> no</c><00:47:17.040><c> doubt</c><00:47:17.280><c> that</c><00:47:17.520><c> the</c><00:47:17.760><c> closer</c><00:47:18.079><c> you</c><00:47:18.240><c> are</c> there's no doubt that the closer you are to<00:47:18.560><c> the</c><00:47:18.720><c> public</c><00:47:18.960><c> markets</c><00:47:19.280><c> the</c><00:47:19.440><c> more</c><00:47:19.520><c> the</c>

to the public markets the more the cyclical<00:47:20.160><c> thing</c><00:47:20.400><c> happens</c><00:47:20.800><c> which</c><00:47:21.040><c> is</c><00:47:21.440><c> there's</c> cyclical thing happens which is there's times<00:47:22.079><c> when</c><00:47:22.240><c> the</c><00:47:22.400><c> business</c><00:47:22.800><c> late</c><00:47:23.040><c> stage</c> times when the business late stage business<00:47:23.599><c> looks</c><00:47:23.839><c> amazing</c><00:47:24.480><c> and</c><00:47:24.640><c> there's</c><00:47:24.880><c> times</c>

business looks amazing and there's times when<00:47:25.280><c> it</c><00:47:25.359><c> looks</c><00:47:25.599><c> crap</c><00:47:26.240><c> right</c><00:47:26.560><c> and</c><00:47:26.720><c> it's</c><00:47:26.960><c> really</c> when it looks crap right and it's really very<00:47:27.359><c> much</c><00:47:27.599><c> dictated</c><00:47:28.079><c> to</c><00:47:28.319><c> by</c> very much dictated to by change<00:47:30.240><c> plus</c><00:47:30.480><c> the</c><00:47:30.640><c> public</c><00:47:30.880><c> markets.</c><00:47:31.440><c> So</c><00:47:31.599><c> I</c>

change plus the public markets. So I there<00:47:32.400><c> is</c><00:47:32.720><c> I</c><00:47:32.960><c> actually</c><00:47:33.200><c> think</c><00:47:33.359><c> the</c><00:47:33.520><c> secular</c> there is I actually think the secular part<00:47:34.480><c> is</c><00:47:34.720><c> more</c><00:47:34.880><c> important</c><00:47:35.119><c> than</c><00:47:35.280><c> the</c><00:47:35.520><c> cyclical</c> part is more important than the cyclical part.<00:47:36.400><c> You</c><00:47:36.640><c> just</c><00:47:36.720><c> got</c><00:47:36.880><c> to</c><00:47:36.960><c> be</c><00:47:37.040><c> aware</c><00:47:37.280><c> of</c><00:47:37.359><c> the</c>

part. You just got to be aware of the cyclical<00:47:37.920><c> stuff.</c><00:47:38.160><c> In</c><00:47:38.480><c> 2022,</c><00:47:39.520><c> turns</c><00:47:39.839><c> out</c><00:47:40.000><c> was</c><00:47:40.240><c> a</c> cyclical stuff. In 2022, turns out was a great<00:47:40.560><c> time</c><00:47:40.720><c> to</c><00:47:40.960><c> write</c><00:47:41.119><c> checks.</c><00:47:42.000><c> 2020,</c><00:47:42.640><c> not</c><00:47:42.800><c> so</c> great time to write checks. 2020, not so much.<00:47:43.440><c> I</c><00:47:43.680><c> mean,</c><00:47:43.760><c> the</c><00:47:43.920><c> people</c><00:47:44.079><c> who</c><00:47:44.319><c> did</c><00:47:44.480><c> that</c>

much. I mean, the people who did that kind<00:47:44.880><c> of</c><00:47:45.040><c> cheap</c><00:47:45.280><c> round</c><00:47:45.520><c> and</c><00:47:45.760><c> ramp</c><00:47:46.079><c> in</c><00:47:46.480><c> 2022,</c> kind of cheap round and ramp in 2022, they're<00:47:47.520><c> feeling</c><00:47:47.839><c> pretty</c><00:47:48.000><c> damn</c><00:47:48.240><c> smart,</c> they're feeling pretty damn smart, >> right?<00:47:50.000><c> So,</c><00:47:50.240><c> no,</c><00:47:50.400><c> I</c><00:47:50.560><c> mean,</c><00:47:50.720><c> it's</c><00:47:50.880><c> just</c><00:47:51.599><c> But</c>

>> right? So, no, I mean, it's just But there's<00:47:52.079><c> no</c><00:47:52.240><c> doubt</c><00:47:52.400><c> at</c><00:47:52.640><c> the</c><00:47:52.720><c> height</c><00:47:52.960><c> it</c><00:47:53.119><c> gets</c> there's no doubt at the height it gets tough.<00:47:53.920><c> The</c><00:47:54.079><c> the</c><00:47:54.400><c> thing</c><00:47:54.560><c> that</c><00:47:54.720><c> I</c><00:47:54.880><c> I</c><00:47:55.119><c> do</c><00:47:55.280><c> see</c><00:47:55.440><c> is</c> tough. The the thing that I I do see is

just<00:47:55.760><c> I</c><00:47:55.920><c> don't</c><00:47:56.079><c> think</c><00:47:56.160><c> we've</c><00:47:56.400><c> ever</c><00:47:56.560><c> seen</c><00:47:56.800><c> the</c> just I don't think we've ever seen the secondary<00:47:58.160><c> market</c><00:47:58.640><c> be</c><00:47:58.880><c> as</c><00:47:59.200><c> liquid</c><00:47:59.599><c> and</c><00:47:59.839><c> mature</c> secondary market be as liquid and mature as<00:48:00.480><c> it</c><00:48:00.720><c> is</c><00:48:00.880><c> today</c><00:48:01.680><c> in</c><00:48:02.000><c> terms</c><00:48:02.160><c> of</c><00:48:02.400><c> ability</c><00:48:02.800><c> to</c>

as it is today in terms of ability to get<00:48:03.200><c> out</c><00:48:03.440><c> of</c><00:48:04.400><c> great</c><00:48:04.800><c> named</c><00:48:05.599><c> high</c><00:48:05.839><c> growth</c> get out of great named high growth companies like<00:48:08.000><c> we</c><00:48:08.160><c> can</c><00:48:08.319><c> today.</c><00:48:08.800><c> Like</c><00:48:09.040><c> in</c><00:48:09.280><c> all</c><00:48:09.440><c> of</c><00:48:09.599><c> in</c><00:48:09.839><c> all</c> like we can today. Like in all of in all

of<00:48:10.160><c> my</c><00:48:10.240><c> top</c><00:48:10.480><c> names</c><00:48:10.800><c> I</c><00:48:10.960><c> can</c><00:48:11.040><c> get</c><00:48:11.200><c> out</c><00:48:11.280><c> of</c><00:48:11.440><c> them</c> of my top names I can get out of them today<00:48:12.160><c> with</c><00:48:12.400><c> ease</c><00:48:12.800><c> and</c><00:48:13.040><c> every</c><00:48:13.280><c> single</c><00:48:13.520><c> day</c><00:48:13.680><c> I</c> today with ease and every single day I have<00:48:13.920><c> buyers</c><00:48:14.160><c> for</c><00:48:14.400><c> them.</c><00:48:14.640><c> I've</c><00:48:14.880><c> never</c><00:48:15.040><c> seen</c>

have buyers for them. I've never seen such<00:48:15.440><c> a</c><00:48:15.599><c> liquid</c><00:48:15.920><c> secondary</c><00:48:16.319><c> market.</c><00:48:17.040><c> So</c><00:48:17.200><c> the</c> such a liquid secondary market. So the why<00:48:17.599><c> now</c><00:48:17.839><c> is</c><00:48:18.000><c> always</c><00:48:18.240><c> really</c><00:48:18.480><c> important.</c> why now is always really important. Outcome<00:48:19.599><c> scenarios</c><00:48:20.000><c> are</c><00:48:20.160><c> bigger</c><00:48:20.400><c> than</c><00:48:20.560><c> ever.</c>

Outcome scenarios are bigger than ever. The<00:48:21.359><c> speed</c><00:48:21.520><c> of</c><00:48:21.760><c> those</c><00:48:22.000><c> scenarios</c><00:48:22.480><c> happening</c> The speed of those scenarios happening are<00:48:23.040><c> faster</c><00:48:23.440><c> than</c><00:48:23.599><c> ever</c><00:48:23.920><c> in</c><00:48:24.079><c> in</c><00:48:24.400><c> a</c><00:48:24.559><c> lot</c><00:48:24.640><c> of</c> are faster than ever in in a lot of cases.<00:48:25.119><c> Your</c><00:48:25.280><c> cursor</c><00:48:25.599><c> is</c><00:48:25.760><c> 60</c><00:48:26.000><c> billion</c><00:48:26.400><c> exits</c>

cases. Your cursor is 60 billion exits in<00:48:27.040><c> four</c><00:48:27.280><c> years.</c><00:48:28.000><c> And</c><00:48:28.160><c> then</c><00:48:28.319><c> along</c><00:48:28.640><c> the</c><00:48:28.800><c> way,</c> in four years. And then along the way, you<00:48:29.520><c> have</c><00:48:29.599><c> the</c><00:48:29.839><c> chance</c><00:48:30.000><c> to</c><00:48:30.160><c> have</c><00:48:30.400><c> secondaries</c> you have the chance to have secondaries far<00:48:31.520><c> more</c><00:48:31.760><c> liquid</c><00:48:32.160><c> than</c><00:48:32.319><c> ever.</c><00:48:32.800><c> There</c><00:48:33.040><c> are</c>

far more liquid than ever. There are meaningful<00:48:34.000><c> changes</c><00:48:34.960><c> to</c><00:48:35.200><c> the</c><00:48:35.440><c> ecosystem</c> meaningful changes to the ecosystem which<00:48:36.880><c> make</c><00:48:37.280><c> now</c><00:48:37.760><c> today</c><00:48:38.559><c> significantly</c> which make now today significantly better<00:48:39.520><c> than</c><00:48:39.680><c> prior</c><00:48:40.079><c> cycles.</c> better than prior cycles. >> I<00:48:43.359><c> agree.</c><00:48:44.720><c> And</c><00:48:44.880><c> it's</c><00:48:45.119><c> worth</c><00:48:45.359><c> pointing</c><00:48:45.760><c> out</c>

>> I agree. And it's worth pointing out just<00:48:46.319><c> to</c><00:48:46.480><c> be</c><00:48:46.559><c> precise</c><00:48:46.880><c> that</c><00:48:47.119><c> that's</c><00:48:47.440><c> not</c><00:48:47.760><c> a</c> just to be precise that that's not a stay<00:48:48.480><c> private</c><00:48:48.880><c> for</c><00:48:49.119><c> longer</c><00:48:49.599><c> comment,</c><00:48:50.319><c> right?</c> stay private for longer comment, right? Which<00:48:50.960><c> sometimes</c><00:48:51.359><c> people</c><00:48:51.760><c> because</c><00:48:52.000><c> in</c><00:48:52.160><c> fact</c>

Which sometimes people because in fact these<00:48:52.640><c> companies</c><00:48:53.359><c> haven't</c><00:48:53.680><c> been</c><00:48:53.920><c> around</c><00:48:54.319><c> a</c> these companies haven't been around a long<00:48:54.800><c> time.</c><00:48:55.280><c> You're</c><00:48:55.520><c> right.</c><00:48:55.680><c> Is</c><00:48:55.920><c> that</c><00:48:56.160><c> what</c><00:48:56.400><c> is</c> long time. You're right. Is that what is and<00:48:56.880><c> it's</c><00:48:57.040><c> a</c><00:48:57.200><c> different</c><00:48:57.359><c> phenomenon</c><00:48:57.760><c> is</c><00:48:57.920><c> that</c>

and it's a different phenomenon is that you're<00:48:58.480><c> now</c><00:48:58.640><c> having</c><00:48:58.960><c> companies</c><00:48:59.359><c> go</c><00:48:59.680><c> zero</c><00:49:00.160><c> to</c> you're now having companies go zero to billions<00:49:00.880><c> of</c><00:49:01.040><c> dollars</c><00:49:01.280><c> in</c><00:49:01.520><c> value</c><00:49:01.760><c> creation</c><00:49:02.079><c> in</c> billions of dollars in value creation in 5<00:49:02.480><c> years.</c><00:49:02.960><c> So</c><00:49:03.119><c> it's</c><00:49:03.359><c> not</c><00:49:03.440><c> a</c><00:49:03.680><c> state</c><00:49:04.000><c> they</c><00:49:04.240><c> they</c>

5 years. So it's not a state they they don't<00:49:04.559><c> have</c><00:49:04.960><c> I</c><00:49:05.119><c> mean</c><00:49:05.359><c> people</c><00:49:05.680><c> say</c><00:49:05.920><c> look</c><00:49:06.319><c> SpaceX</c> don't have I mean people say look SpaceX stayed<00:49:07.119><c> private</c><00:49:07.440><c> a</c><00:49:07.680><c> long</c><00:49:07.920><c> time.</c><00:49:08.559><c> Open</c><00:49:08.880><c> AI</c> stayed private a long time. Open AI hasn't<00:49:09.520><c> had</c><00:49:09.760><c> time</c><00:49:09.920><c> to</c><00:49:10.079><c> get</c><00:49:10.160><c> its</c><00:49:10.480><c> systems</c>

hasn't had time to get its systems together<00:49:11.119><c> yet,</c><00:49:11.520><c> right?</c><00:49:11.839><c> They're</c><00:49:12.079><c> not</c><00:49:12.240><c> public</c> together yet, right? They're not public cuz<00:49:12.720><c> they're</c><00:49:13.040><c> staying</c><00:49:13.280><c> private</c><00:49:13.599><c> for</c><00:49:13.839><c> longer.</c> cuz they're staying private for longer. They're<00:49:14.480><c> public</c><00:49:14.720><c> as</c><00:49:14.960><c> Jesus.</c><00:49:15.280><c> Five</c><00:49:15.440><c> years</c><00:49:15.599><c> ago</c>

They're public as Jesus. Five years ago they<00:49:16.000><c> were</c><00:49:16.160><c> doing</c><00:49:16.319><c> nothing,</c><00:49:17.040><c> right?</c><00:49:17.280><c> So</c><00:49:17.440><c> I</c> they were doing nothing, right? So I agree<00:49:17.760><c> with</c><00:49:17.839><c> you.</c><00:49:18.079><c> There's</c><00:49:18.319><c> this</c><00:49:18.559><c> new</c><00:49:18.800><c> class</c> agree with you. There's this new class of<00:49:19.200><c> businesses</c><00:49:20.160><c> and</c><00:49:21.440><c> there's</c><00:49:21.680><c> a</c><00:49:21.920><c> small</c><00:49:22.240><c> number</c>

of businesses and there's a small number of<00:49:22.720><c> winners</c><00:49:23.599><c> and</c><00:49:23.760><c> if</c><00:49:23.920><c> you're</c><00:49:24.079><c> not</c><00:49:24.240><c> look</c><00:49:24.400><c> and</c> of winners and if you're not look and you<00:49:24.720><c> know</c><00:49:24.880><c> you</c><00:49:25.359><c> if</c><00:49:25.599><c> there's</c><00:49:26.240><c> 4,000</c><00:49:26.960><c> early</c> you know you if there's 4,000 early stage<00:49:27.680><c> companies</c><00:49:28.319><c> and</c><00:49:28.640><c> only</c><00:49:28.880><c> 40</c><00:49:29.200><c> of</c><00:49:29.359><c> them</c>

stage companies and only 40 of them matter<00:49:30.240><c> and</c><00:49:30.559><c> you</c><00:49:30.720><c> want</c><00:49:30.880><c> to</c><00:49:31.040><c> matter</c><00:49:31.440><c> and</c><00:49:31.680><c> you</c> matter and you want to matter and you miss<00:49:32.079><c> them</c><00:49:32.240><c> at</c><00:49:32.400><c> the</c><00:49:32.559><c> early</c><00:49:32.880><c> stage,</c><00:49:33.359><c> there's</c><00:49:33.680><c> no</c> miss them at the early stage, there's no doubt<00:49:34.079><c> that</c><00:49:34.400><c> sticking</c><00:49:34.720><c> some</c><00:49:34.960><c> money</c><00:49:35.119><c> in</c><00:49:35.280><c> the</c>

doubt that sticking some money in the later<00:49:35.680><c> stage</c><00:49:35.920><c> is</c><00:49:36.160><c> one</c><00:49:36.319><c> way</c><00:49:36.480><c> to</c><00:49:36.559><c> play</c><00:49:36.720><c> the</c><00:49:36.880><c> game.</c> later stage is one way to play the game. >> Yeah.<00:49:37.839><c> Where</c><00:49:38.079><c> you</c><00:49:38.240><c> can</c><00:49:38.319><c> also</c><00:49:38.559><c> move</c><00:49:38.880><c> more</c> >> Yeah. Where you can also move more

money.<00:49:39.680><c> Um</c><00:49:40.240><c> so</c><00:49:40.480><c> yes,</c><00:49:41.119><c> completely.</c><00:49:41.599><c> I</c><00:49:41.839><c> thought</c> money. Um so yes, completely. I thought it<00:49:42.160><c> was</c><00:49:42.319><c> entirely</c><00:49:42.800><c> logical</c><00:49:43.119><c> from</c><00:49:43.359><c> Jason.</c><00:49:43.680><c> And</c> it was entirely logical from Jason. And I<00:49:43.920><c> think</c><00:49:44.000><c> it's</c><00:49:44.240><c> exactly</c><00:49:44.720><c> what</c><00:49:44.880><c> he</c><00:49:45.119><c> should</c><00:49:45.200><c> be</c>

I think it's exactly what he should be doing<00:49:45.520><c> to</c><00:49:45.680><c> be</c><00:49:45.760><c> honest.</c> doing to be honest. >> I<00:49:46.559><c> I</c><00:49:46.720><c> I</c><00:49:46.880><c> think</c><00:49:46.960><c> the</c><00:49:47.200><c> third</c><00:49:47.440><c> comment</c><00:49:47.839><c> though</c><00:49:48.079><c> is</c> >> I I I think the third comment though is remember<00:49:48.480><c> I</c><00:49:48.640><c> said</c><00:49:48.720><c> there's</c><00:49:48.960><c> three</c><00:49:49.119><c> things.</c>

remember I said there's three things. There's<00:49:49.520><c> the</c><00:49:49.680><c> structural</c><00:49:50.079><c> stuff,</c><00:49:50.480><c> there's</c> There's the structural stuff, there's which<00:49:51.040><c> and</c><00:49:51.200><c> I</c><00:49:51.359><c> would</c><00:49:51.520><c> put</c><00:49:51.680><c> your</c><00:49:51.920><c> comment</c><00:49:52.160><c> on</c> which and I would put your comment on new<00:49:52.559><c> bigger</c><00:49:52.880><c> companies</c><00:49:53.200><c> in</c><00:49:53.359><c> that</c><00:49:53.520><c> structural</c>

new bigger companies in that structural bucket.<00:49:54.160><c> There's</c><00:49:54.319><c> the</c><00:49:54.480><c> cyclical</c><00:49:54.880><c> risk</c> bucket. There's the cyclical risk because<00:49:55.760><c> latestage</c><00:49:56.319><c> business</c><00:49:56.640><c> is</c><00:49:56.960><c> always</c> because latestage business is always about<00:49:57.520><c> valuation</c><00:49:58.160><c> risk</c><00:49:58.480><c> because</c><00:49:58.800><c> that's</c><00:49:58.960><c> the</c> about valuation risk because that's the

only<00:49:59.280><c> risk</c><00:49:59.520><c> there</c><00:49:59.680><c> is.</c><00:50:00.160><c> But</c><00:50:00.319><c> I</c><00:50:00.480><c> do</c><00:50:00.640><c> think</c><00:50:01.040><c> you</c> only risk there is. But I do think you called<00:50:01.520><c> it</c><00:50:01.680><c> the</c><00:50:01.839><c> craft</c><00:50:02.480><c> and</c><00:50:02.640><c> that's</c><00:50:02.800><c> why</c><00:50:03.599><c> I</c><00:50:03.920><c> do</c> called it the craft and that's why I do think<00:50:04.960><c> the</c><00:50:05.200><c> odd</c><00:50:05.440><c> thing</c><00:50:05.520><c> about</c><00:50:05.760><c> the</c><00:50:05.920><c> private</c>

think the odd thing about the private markets<00:50:06.559><c> unlike</c><00:50:06.880><c> the</c><00:50:07.040><c> public</c><00:50:07.280><c> markets</c><00:50:07.520><c> where</c> markets unlike the public markets where hedge<00:50:07.920><c> funds</c><00:50:08.240><c> can</c><00:50:08.559><c> you</c><00:50:08.720><c> know</c><00:50:09.119><c> be</c><00:50:09.359><c> selling</c><00:50:09.760><c> tech</c> hedge funds can you know be selling tech stocks<00:50:10.400><c> today</c><00:50:10.559><c> and</c><00:50:10.800><c> buying</c><00:50:11.040><c> the</c><00:50:11.280><c> Indonesian</c>

stocks today and buying the Indonesian bat<00:50:12.160><c> tomorrow,</c><00:50:12.720><c> right?</c><00:50:12.960><c> them</c><00:50:13.119><c> all</c><00:50:13.359><c> liquid.</c><00:50:13.920><c> I</c> bat tomorrow, right? them all liquid. I think<00:50:14.240><c> with</c><00:50:14.480><c> private</c><00:50:14.720><c> markets</c><00:50:15.119><c> is</c> think with private markets is if<00:50:17.040><c> your</c><00:50:17.599><c> if</c><00:50:17.920><c> if</c><00:50:18.240><c> your</c><00:50:18.480><c> comparative</c><00:50:19.040><c> advantage</c>

if your if if your comparative advantage if<00:50:19.839><c> David</c><00:50:20.079><c> Frankle's</c><00:50:20.559><c> comparative</c> if David Frankle's comparative advantage,<00:50:21.359><c> which</c><00:50:21.520><c> I</c><00:50:21.680><c> believe</c><00:50:21.760><c> it</c><00:50:21.920><c> is,</c><00:50:21.920><c> is</c><00:50:22.160><c> to</c> advantage, which I believe it is, is to be<00:50:22.400><c> an</c><00:50:22.559><c> awesome</c> be an awesome [snorts] first<00:50:25.280><c> check</c><00:50:25.599><c> in</c><00:50:25.920><c> investor,</c><00:50:27.119><c> it's</c><00:50:27.440><c> not</c><00:50:27.680><c> clear</c>

first check in investor, it's not clear how<00:50:28.079><c> you</c><00:50:28.319><c> monetize</c><00:50:28.800><c> that</c><00:50:29.040><c> by</c><00:50:29.280><c> putting</c><00:50:29.520><c> money</c> how you monetize that by putting money in<00:50:29.920><c> companies</c><00:50:30.319><c> at</c><00:50:30.480><c> 20</c><00:50:30.720><c> billion</c><00:50:31.040><c> pre,</c><00:50:31.839><c> right?</c> in companies at 20 billion pre, right? If<00:50:32.400><c> you</c><00:50:32.480><c> think</c><00:50:32.640><c> your</c><00:50:32.880><c> advantage</c><00:50:33.200><c> is</c><00:50:33.440><c> your</c>

If you think your advantage is your stock<00:50:33.839><c> picker,</c><00:50:34.160><c> then</c><00:50:34.319><c> maybe</c><00:50:34.480><c> you</c><00:50:34.640><c> can</c><00:50:34.800><c> do</c> stock picker, then maybe you can do both.<00:50:35.440><c> But</c><00:50:35.680><c> like</c><00:50:35.920><c> for</c><00:50:36.000><c> example,</c><00:50:36.400><c> it</c><00:50:36.559><c> would</c><00:50:36.720><c> be</c> both. But like for example, it would be insane<00:50:37.280><c> of</c><00:50:37.520><c> why</c><00:50:37.839><c> combinator</c><00:50:38.640><c> to</c><00:50:38.880><c> say</c><00:50:39.040><c> we're</c>

insane of why combinator to say we're giving<00:50:39.440><c> up</c><00:50:39.599><c> early</c><00:50:39.839><c> stage</c><00:50:40.160><c> and</c><00:50:40.319><c> only</c><00:50:40.559><c> doing</c> giving up early stage and only doing late<00:50:41.200><c> because</c><00:50:41.440><c> they</c><00:50:41.680><c> have</c><00:50:41.760><c> a</c><00:50:41.920><c> position</c><00:50:42.240><c> in</c> late because they have a position in that<00:50:42.800><c> market</c><00:50:43.440><c> that's</c><00:50:43.760><c> irreplaceable.</c><00:50:44.800><c> So</c><00:50:45.200><c> I</c>

that market that's irreplaceable. So I do<00:50:45.599><c> think</c><00:50:45.680><c> there</c><00:50:45.839><c> is</c><00:50:46.000><c> an</c><00:50:46.079><c> institutional</c> do think there is an institutional factor<00:50:47.040><c> to</c><00:50:47.200><c> this.</c><00:50:47.440><c> It's</c><00:50:47.599><c> not</c><00:50:47.839><c> if</c><00:50:48.000><c> you've</c><00:50:48.480><c> spent</c> factor to this. It's not if you've spent a<00:50:48.960><c> lot</c><00:50:49.119><c> of</c><00:50:49.200><c> time</c><00:50:49.359><c> doing</c><00:50:49.680><c> X,</c><00:50:50.000><c> it's</c><00:50:50.240><c> actually</c>

a lot of time doing X, it's actually quite<00:50:50.800><c> hard</c><00:50:51.040><c> to</c><00:50:51.280><c> say,</c><00:50:52.559><c> you</c><00:50:52.720><c> know,</c><00:50:52.880><c> now</c><00:50:53.040><c> I'm</c> quite hard to say, you know, now I'm going<00:50:53.359><c> to</c><00:50:53.440><c> switch</c><00:50:53.680><c> to</c><00:50:53.920><c> something</c><00:50:54.079><c> totally</c> going to switch to something totally different.<00:50:55.119><c> I</c><00:50:55.359><c> mean,</c><00:50:55.440><c> good</c><00:50:55.680><c> luck,</c><00:50:55.920><c> Jason,</c><00:50:56.160><c> if</c>

different. I mean, good luck, Jason, if you<00:50:56.480><c> can</c><00:50:56.559><c> pull</c><00:50:56.720><c> it</c><00:50:56.800><c> off,</c><00:50:57.040><c> but</c><00:50:57.280><c> it's</c><00:50:57.440><c> not</c><00:50:57.680><c> a</c> you can pull it off, but it's not a layup.<00:50:58.559><c> And</c><00:50:58.720><c> there's</c><00:50:58.960><c> a</c><00:50:59.119><c> lot</c><00:50:59.200><c> of</c><00:50:59.359><c> people</c><00:50:59.520><c> for</c> layup. And there's a lot of people for

whom they're<00:51:01.839><c> good,</c><00:51:02.079><c> so</c><00:51:02.400><c> good</c><00:51:02.480><c> at</c><00:51:02.720><c> doing</c><00:51:02.960><c> X</c><00:51:03.359><c> that</c> they're good, so good at doing X that trying<00:51:03.839><c> to</c><00:51:04.000><c> do</c><00:51:04.160><c> Y</c><00:51:04.559><c> would</c><00:51:04.720><c> be</c><00:51:04.800><c> a</c><00:51:05.040><c> mistake,</c><00:51:05.359><c> even</c> trying to do Y would be a mistake, even if<00:51:05.760><c> Y</c><00:51:06.400><c> on</c><00:51:06.640><c> average</c><00:51:06.880><c> is</c><00:51:07.040><c> a</c><00:51:07.200><c> better</c><00:51:07.359><c> return</c>

if Y on average is a better return profile. >> Agreed.<00:51:10.079><c> A</c><00:51:10.240><c> line</c><00:51:10.400><c> to</c><00:51:10.559><c> that.</c><00:51:10.720><c> Paul</c><00:51:10.960><c> Graham</c> >> Agreed. A line to that. Paul Graham sparked<00:51:11.599><c> some</c><00:51:12.000><c> fire</c><00:51:12.319><c> on</c><00:51:12.559><c> Twitter</c><00:51:12.880><c> last</c><00:51:13.119><c> night</c> sparked some fire on Twitter last night cuz<00:51:13.520><c> he</c><00:51:13.920><c> posted</c><00:51:14.240><c> about</c><00:51:14.480><c> a</c><00:51:14.559><c> YC</c><00:51:15.119><c> company</c><00:51:15.680><c> that</c>

cuz he posted about a YC company that apologized<00:51:16.720><c> for</c><00:51:16.880><c> only</c><00:51:17.119><c> having</c><00:51:17.520><c> 36%</c> apologized for only having 36% month-on-month<00:51:18.960><c> growth</c><00:51:19.280><c> because</c><00:51:19.440><c> they</c><00:51:19.680><c> were</c> month-on-month growth because they were fundraising.<00:51:20.640><c> And</c><00:51:20.800><c> he</c><00:51:21.040><c> got</c><00:51:21.200><c> lots</c><00:51:21.359><c> of</c> fundraising. And he got lots of

plauditis.<00:51:22.559><c> And</c><00:51:22.800><c> I</c><00:51:22.960><c> I</c><00:51:23.200><c> thought</c><00:51:23.359><c> it</c><00:51:23.520><c> was</c><00:51:23.599><c> just</c> plauditis. And I I thought it was just symbolic<00:51:24.319><c> of</c><00:51:24.480><c> the</c><00:51:25.040><c> it</c><00:51:25.280><c> really</c><00:51:25.520><c> depends</c><00:51:25.920><c> who</c> symbolic of the it really depends who says<00:51:26.400><c> it</c><00:51:26.640><c> because</c><00:51:26.880><c> when</c><00:51:27.119><c> I</c><00:51:27.280><c> say</c><00:51:27.440><c> [ __ ]</c><00:51:27.680><c> like</c>

says it because when I say [ __ ] like that,<00:51:28.079><c> I</c><00:51:28.240><c> get</c><00:51:28.400><c> in</c><00:51:28.640><c> so</c><00:51:28.880><c> much</c><00:51:29.040><c> trouble</c><00:51:29.680><c> for</c> that, I get in so much trouble for saying<00:51:30.240><c> it.</c><00:51:30.720><c> And</c><00:51:30.880><c> then</c><00:51:31.119><c> Paul</c><00:51:31.359><c> Graham</c><00:51:31.599><c> and</c><00:51:31.760><c> YC,</c> saying it. And then Paul Graham and YC, it<00:51:32.319><c> was</c><00:51:32.400><c> like,</c><00:51:32.480><c> "Yeah,</c><00:51:32.800><c> marvelous."</c><00:51:33.200><c> Why?</c>

it was like, "Yeah, marvelous." Why? >> Well,<00:51:33.920><c> no</c><00:51:34.000><c> one's</c><00:51:34.240><c> scared</c><00:51:34.400><c> of</c><00:51:34.480><c> you,</c><00:51:34.720><c> Harry.</c> >> Well, no one's scared of you, Harry. That's<00:51:35.200><c> the</c><00:51:35.359><c> difference.</c> That's the difference. >> Oh, >> you<00:51:37.040><c> can't</c><00:51:37.200><c> say</c><00:51:37.359><c> anything</c><00:51:37.920><c> about</c><00:51:38.240><c> PG,</c><00:51:38.800><c> right?</c>

>> you can't say anything about PG, right? The<00:51:39.440><c> cost</c><00:51:39.680><c> is</c><00:51:39.839><c> too</c><00:51:40.079><c> high.</c> The cost is too high. >> That's<00:51:41.680><c> it.</c> >> That's it. >> Yeah, >> you<00:51:43.760><c> can't.</c><00:51:44.079><c> And</c><00:51:44.160><c> and</c><00:51:44.480><c> listen,</c><00:51:44.800><c> I</c><00:51:45.119><c> mean</c><00:51:45.520><c> I</c> >> you can't. And and listen, I mean I mean,<00:51:46.160><c> one</c><00:51:46.319><c> of</c><00:51:46.400><c> the</c><00:51:46.559><c> most</c><00:51:46.720><c> successful</c>

mean, one of the most successful investors<00:51:47.520><c> of</c><00:51:47.760><c> all</c><00:51:47.920><c> time,</c><00:51:48.240><c> right?</c><00:51:48.480><c> Wildly</c> investors of all time, right? Wildly successful<00:51:49.440><c> beyond</c><00:51:49.760><c> what</c><00:51:50.000><c> anybody</c><00:51:50.400><c> realizes.</c> successful beyond what anybody realizes. directionally<00:51:52.160><c> correct</c><00:51:52.800><c> earlier</c><00:51:53.280><c> than</c> directionally correct earlier than

everybody<00:51:53.839><c> else</c><00:51:54.240><c> and</c><00:51:55.200><c> his</c><00:51:55.599><c> portfolio</c><00:51:56.160><c> is</c> everybody else and his portfolio is unmatched.<00:51:57.359><c> So,</c><00:51:57.520><c> he</c><00:51:57.760><c> has</c><00:51:57.839><c> earned</c><00:51:58.079><c> the</c><00:51:58.240><c> right</c> unmatched. So, he has earned the right for<00:51:58.880><c> everyone</c><00:51:59.280><c> to</c><00:51:59.520><c> follow</c><00:51:59.839><c> what</c><00:52:00.000><c> he</c><00:52:00.240><c> says.</c>

for everyone to follow what he says. He's<00:52:00.720><c> earned</c><00:52:00.880><c> it,</c><00:52:01.200><c> right?</c><00:52:01.440><c> He</c><00:52:01.839><c> he</c><00:52:02.160><c> might</c><00:52:02.319><c> be</c> He's earned it, right? He he might be the<00:52:02.720><c> goat,</c><00:52:03.119><c> right?</c><00:52:03.680><c> Even</c><00:52:03.920><c> though</c><00:52:04.000><c> he's</c><00:52:04.240><c> not</c> the goat, right? Even though he's not described<00:52:04.960><c> as</c><00:52:05.119><c> the</c><00:52:05.280><c> goat,</c><00:52:05.680><c> he</c><00:52:05.920><c> probably</c><00:52:06.079><c> is</c>

described as the goat, he probably is the<00:52:06.400><c> goat,</c><00:52:07.680><c> right?</c><00:52:08.160><c> I</c><00:52:08.400><c> mean,</c><00:52:08.559><c> who</c><00:52:08.800><c> who</c><00:52:08.800><c> who</c> the goat, right? I mean, who who who picks<00:52:09.520><c> up</c><00:52:09.680><c> more</c><00:52:09.920><c> nine</c><00:52:10.240><c> figure</c><00:52:10.480><c> and</c><00:52:10.720><c> 10</c><00:52:10.960><c> figure</c> picks up more nine figure and 10 figure checks<00:52:11.680><c> off</c><00:52:11.920><c> the</c><00:52:12.079><c> floor</c><00:52:12.319><c> than</c><00:52:12.480><c> Paul</c><00:52:12.800><c> Graham?</c>

checks off the floor than Paul Graham? Nobody,<00:52:13.599><c> right?</c><00:52:13.839><c> He</c><00:52:14.000><c> he</c><00:52:14.240><c> deserves</c><00:52:14.559><c> it,</c><00:52:14.880><c> right?</c> Nobody, right? He he deserves it, right? Um<00:52:16.400><c> but</c><00:52:16.559><c> but</c><00:52:16.880><c> you</c><00:52:17.040><c> have</c><00:52:17.200><c> to</c><00:52:17.280><c> be</c><00:52:17.440><c> careful</c><00:52:17.760><c> if</c><00:52:17.920><c> you</c> Um but but you have to be careful if you

disagree.<00:52:18.640><c> You</c><00:52:18.800><c> do</c><00:52:18.960><c> have</c><00:52:19.119><c> to</c><00:52:19.200><c> be</c><00:52:19.280><c> a</c><00:52:19.440><c> little</c> disagree. You do have to be a little careful.<00:52:20.000><c> Well,</c><00:52:20.400><c> first</c><00:52:20.559><c> of</c><00:52:20.640><c> all,</c><00:52:21.119><c> I</c><00:52:21.280><c> I</c><00:52:21.359><c> I</c><00:52:21.760><c> want</c> careful. Well, first of all, I I I want two<00:52:22.160><c> comments.</c><00:52:22.400><c> One</c><00:52:22.559><c> is</c><00:52:22.720><c> on</c><00:52:22.880><c> the</c><00:52:22.960><c> tweet.</c><00:52:23.200><c> I</c><00:52:23.359><c> saw</c>

two comments. One is on the tweet. I saw that<00:52:23.599><c> tweet.</c><00:52:23.760><c> I</c><00:52:23.920><c> thought</c><00:52:24.000><c> it</c><00:52:24.160><c> was</c><00:52:24.240><c> kind</c><00:52:24.400><c> of</c> that tweet. I thought it was kind of more<00:52:24.720><c> tongue-in-cheek</c><00:52:25.599><c> comment.</c><00:52:26.240><c> I</c><00:52:26.400><c> I</c><00:52:26.400><c> I</c> more tongue-in-cheek comment. I I I think<00:52:27.119><c> people</c><00:52:27.599><c> I</c><00:52:27.839><c> think</c><00:52:28.000><c> people</c><00:52:28.400><c> over</c><00:52:28.800><c> [ __ ]</c>

think people I think people over [ __ ] >> over<00:52:30.800><c> they're</c><00:52:31.040><c> over</c><00:52:31.599><c> they're</c><00:52:31.839><c> overthinking</c> >> over they're over they're overthinking it.<00:52:32.400><c> I</c><00:52:32.559><c> I</c><00:52:32.720><c> I</c><00:52:32.880><c> saw</c><00:52:32.960><c> the</c><00:52:33.119><c> tweet</c><00:52:33.280><c> and</c><00:52:33.359><c> I</c><00:52:33.520><c> thought</c><00:52:33.680><c> it</c> it. I I I saw the tweet and I thought it

was<00:52:33.920><c> a</c><00:52:34.079><c> kind</c><00:52:34.160><c> of</c><00:52:34.240><c> a</c><00:52:34.319><c> cute</c><00:52:34.559><c> tweet.</c><00:52:34.880><c> Hey,</c><00:52:35.119><c> my</c> was a kind of a cute tweet. Hey, my company<00:52:35.599><c> apologized</c><00:52:36.079><c> because</c><00:52:36.240><c> they</c><00:52:36.319><c> were</c> company apologized because they were only<00:52:36.640><c> going</c><00:52:36.880><c> 36%</c> only going 36% um<00:52:38.480><c> because</c><00:52:38.720><c> they</c><00:52:38.880><c> were</c><00:52:38.960><c> fundraising.</c><00:52:39.599><c> It</c><00:52:39.680><c> was</c>

um because they were fundraising. It was a<00:52:39.839><c> little</c><00:52:39.920><c> bit</c><00:52:40.000><c> of</c><00:52:40.000><c> a</c><00:52:40.160><c> humble</c><00:52:40.400><c> brag.</c><00:52:40.800><c> It</c><00:52:40.960><c> was</c> a little bit of a humble brag. It was kind<00:52:41.200><c> of</c><00:52:41.280><c> funny,</c><00:52:41.520><c> but</c><00:52:41.680><c> it</c><00:52:42.000><c> it's</c><00:52:42.240><c> like</c><00:52:42.400><c> boasting</c> kind of funny, but it it's like boasting

about<00:52:43.040><c> your</c><00:52:43.200><c> kids,</c><00:52:43.440><c> not</c><00:52:43.599><c> boasting</c><00:52:44.000><c> about</c> about your kids, not boasting about yourself.<00:52:45.040><c> It</c><00:52:45.200><c> was</c><00:52:45.359><c> not</c><00:52:45.599><c> worth</c><00:52:45.920><c> any</c><00:52:46.240><c> emotional</c> yourself. It was not worth any emotional energy<00:52:47.200><c> whatsoever.</c><00:52:48.000><c> So</c><00:52:48.240><c> the</c><00:52:48.480><c> fact</c><00:52:48.559><c> that</c><00:52:48.800><c> all</c>

energy whatsoever. So the fact that all these<00:52:49.200><c> people</c><00:52:49.359><c> are</c><00:52:49.920><c> commenting</c><00:52:50.319><c> on</c><00:52:50.480><c> it</c><00:52:50.720><c> they</c> these people are commenting on it they just<00:52:50.960><c> need</c><00:52:51.040><c> to</c><00:52:51.200><c> get</c><00:52:51.280><c> a</c><00:52:51.440><c> life</c><00:52:52.000><c> right</c><00:52:52.480><c> I</c><00:52:52.640><c> think</c><00:52:52.720><c> to</c> just need to get a life right I think to

Jason<00:52:53.280><c> to</c><00:52:53.440><c> your</c><00:52:53.680><c> point</c><00:52:54.400><c> I</c><00:52:55.119><c> and</c><00:52:55.359><c> this</c> Jason to your point I and this [clears throat]<00:52:55.599><c> actually</c><00:52:55.839><c> gets</c><00:52:56.079><c> back</c><00:52:56.240><c> to</c> [clears throat] actually gets back to the<00:52:56.480><c> structural</c><00:52:56.880><c> comment</c><00:52:57.599><c> I</c><00:52:57.839><c> think</c><00:52:58.319><c> Paul</c> the structural comment I think Paul

Raymond<00:52:58.960><c> white</c><00:52:59.119><c> commoner</c><00:52:59.599><c> is</c><00:52:59.680><c> the</c><00:52:59.839><c> goat</c><00:53:00.720><c> but</c> Raymond white commoner is the goat but it's<00:53:01.200><c> less</c><00:53:01.520><c> because</c><00:53:02.559><c> it's</c><00:53:02.800><c> actually</c><00:53:03.440><c> it's</c> it's less because it's actually it's better<00:53:04.000><c> than</c><00:53:04.160><c> being</c><00:53:04.319><c> a</c><00:53:04.559><c> good</c><00:53:04.720><c> investor</c><00:53:05.680><c> right</c>

better than being a good investor right he's<00:53:06.559><c> actually</c><00:53:06.880><c> put</c><00:53:07.119><c> himself</c><00:53:07.440><c> in</c><00:53:07.599><c> a</c><00:53:07.760><c> position</c> he's actually put himself in a position where<00:53:08.559><c> he</c><00:53:08.880><c> doesn't</c><00:53:09.200><c> have</c><00:53:09.440><c> to</c><00:53:09.599><c> be</c><00:53:09.760><c> an</c><00:53:10.000><c> amazing</c> where he doesn't have to be an amazing investor<00:53:11.200><c> he</c><00:53:11.440><c> has</c><00:53:11.599><c> a</c><00:53:11.839><c> machine</c><00:53:12.640><c> and</c><00:53:12.960><c> a</c><00:53:13.200><c> business</c>

investor he has a machine and a business that<00:53:13.839><c> makes</c><00:53:14.000><c> him</c><00:53:14.240><c> win</c><00:53:14.880><c> right</c><00:53:15.119><c> I</c><00:53:15.280><c> mean</c><00:53:15.359><c> he's</c><00:53:15.760><c> I</c> that makes him win right I mean he's I mean<00:53:16.000><c> look</c><00:53:16.559><c> factual</c><00:53:17.040><c> comment</c><00:53:17.520><c> He's</c><00:53:17.839><c> been</c><00:53:17.920><c> able</c> mean look factual comment He's been able to<00:53:18.319><c> delegate</c><00:53:18.720><c> the</c><00:53:18.960><c> p</c><00:53:19.200><c> the</c><00:53:19.520><c> entire</c><00:53:19.920><c> task</c><00:53:20.319><c> of</c>

to delegate the p the entire task of picking<00:53:21.440><c> to</c><00:53:21.760><c> others.</c><00:53:22.160><c> He</c><00:53:22.400><c> doesn't</c><00:53:22.559><c> pick</c><00:53:22.800><c> them.</c> picking to others. He doesn't pick them. He<00:53:23.200><c> doesn't</c><00:53:23.359><c> sit</c><00:53:23.599><c> through</c><00:53:24.160><c> 5,000</c><00:53:24.800><c> pitches</c><00:53:25.200><c> to</c> He doesn't sit through 5,000 pitches to hear,<00:53:25.920><c> right?</c><00:53:26.319><c> He</c><00:53:26.559><c> actually</c><00:53:26.880><c> had</c><00:53:27.040><c> an</c><00:53:27.280><c> idea</c>

hear, right? He actually had an idea which<00:53:28.240><c> is</c><00:53:28.480><c> help</c><00:53:28.800><c> make</c><00:53:28.960><c> more</c><00:53:29.200><c> companies</c> which is help make more companies possible.<00:53:30.480><c> And</c><00:53:30.640><c> he</c><00:53:30.880><c> manifested</c><00:53:31.520><c> that</c><00:53:31.680><c> in</c><00:53:31.839><c> a</c> possible. And he manifested that in a business<00:53:32.240><c> that</c><00:53:32.559><c> works.</c><00:53:33.040><c> He</c><00:53:33.359><c> owns</c><00:53:33.599><c> a</c><00:53:33.839><c> business,</c>

business that works. He owns a business, not<00:53:34.640><c> an</c><00:53:34.880><c> investing</c><00:53:35.359><c> thing.</c><00:53:35.680><c> And</c><00:53:35.839><c> that's</c><00:53:36.240><c> it</c> not an investing thing. And that's it would<00:53:36.720><c> be</c><00:53:36.880><c> better</c><00:53:37.119><c> to</c><00:53:37.359><c> own</c><00:53:37.520><c> a</c><00:53:37.760><c> business</c><00:53:38.319><c> than</c> would be better to own a business than be<00:53:38.720><c> a</c><00:53:38.880><c> great</c><00:53:39.040><c> stock</c><00:53:39.280><c> picker.</c><00:53:39.680><c> It's</c><00:53:39.839><c> the</c><00:53:40.000><c> It's</c>

be a great stock picker. It's the It's the<00:53:40.480><c> best</c><00:53:40.720><c> business</c><00:53:41.200><c> ever</c><00:53:41.680><c> cuz</c><00:53:41.920><c> you</c><00:53:42.160><c> can,</c><00:53:42.720><c> you</c> the best business ever cuz you can, you know,<00:53:43.040><c> drive</c><00:53:43.359><c> around</c><00:53:43.599><c> England</c><00:53:44.000><c> going</c><00:53:44.160><c> to</c> know, drive around England going to bookshops<00:53:44.960><c> in</c><00:53:45.200><c> small</c><00:53:45.520><c> country</c><00:53:45.920><c> towns,</c>

bookshops in small country towns, sending<00:53:46.640><c> fun</c><00:53:46.960><c> tweets</c><00:53:47.440><c> while</c><00:53:47.760><c> at</c><00:53:47.920><c> the</c><00:53:48.079><c> same</c> sending fun tweets while at the same time,<00:53:48.559><c> as</c><00:53:48.800><c> you</c><00:53:48.960><c> say,</c><00:53:49.440><c> setting</c><00:53:49.760><c> yourself</c><00:53:50.079><c> up</c><00:53:50.319><c> to</c> time, as you say, setting yourself up to pick<00:53:50.720><c> $100</c><00:53:51.040><c> million</c><00:53:51.520><c> checks</c><00:53:51.760><c> off</c><00:53:51.920><c> the</c><00:53:52.079><c> floor</c>

pick $100 million checks off the floor 10<00:53:52.559><c> years</c><00:53:52.800><c> later</c><00:53:53.280><c> when</c><00:53:53.520><c> your</c><00:53:53.760><c> startups</c><00:53:54.079><c> that</c> 10 years later when your startups that other<00:53:54.480><c> people</c><00:53:54.640><c> have</c><00:53:54.800><c> picked</c><00:53:54.960><c> on</c><00:53:55.119><c> your</c><00:53:55.280><c> behalf</c> other people have picked on your behalf go<00:53:55.839><c> public</c><00:53:56.319><c> because</c><00:53:56.559><c> you</c><00:53:56.720><c> have</c><00:53:56.880><c> a</c><00:53:57.040><c> lock</c><00:53:57.280><c> on</c>

go public because you have a lock on that<00:53:57.680><c> market.</c><00:53:58.240><c> Work</c><00:53:58.480><c> of</c><00:53:58.720><c> genius.</c><00:53:59.440><c> It's</c><00:53:59.599><c> an</c><00:53:59.839><c> N</c> that market. Work of genius. It's an N of<00:54:00.240><c> one</c><00:54:00.480><c> business.</c> of one business. >> Well,<00:54:01.200><c> you</c><00:54:01.440><c> every</c><00:54:01.839><c> five</c><00:54:02.079><c> or</c><00:54:02.400><c> seven</c><00:54:02.640><c> years</c><00:54:02.800><c> you</c>

>> Well, you every five or seven years you do<00:54:03.119><c> have</c><00:54:03.200><c> to</c><00:54:03.280><c> recruit</c><00:54:03.520><c> a</c><00:54:03.680><c> Sam</c><00:54:03.839><c> Alman</c><00:54:04.160><c> or</c><00:54:04.319><c> Gary</c> do have to recruit a Sam Alman or Gary Tan<00:54:04.720><c> to</c><00:54:04.880><c> run</c><00:54:04.960><c> it.</c><00:54:05.200><c> Other</c><00:54:05.440><c> than</c><00:54:05.520><c> that,</c><00:54:05.760><c> yeah.</c> Tan to run it. Other than that, yeah.

>> Yeah.<00:54:06.720><c> You</c><00:54:06.880><c> have</c><00:54:06.960><c> seven</c><00:54:07.200><c> to</c><00:54:07.440><c> 10</c><00:54:07.680><c> people</c><00:54:08.000><c> at</c> >> Yeah. You have seven to 10 people at general<00:54:08.400><c> party</c><00:54:08.720><c> level</c><00:54:08.960><c> picking</c><00:54:09.280><c> deals</c><00:54:09.520><c> and</c> general party level picking deals and then<00:54:09.839><c> you</c><00:54:10.000><c> pick</c><00:54:10.079><c> the</c><00:54:10.240><c> best</c><00:54:10.400><c> one.</c><00:54:10.559><c> It's</c><00:54:10.720><c> it's</c>

then you pick the best one. It's it's again<00:54:11.599><c> it's</c><00:54:11.839><c> a</c><00:54:12.079><c> work</c><00:54:12.400><c> of</c><00:54:12.640><c> genius.</c><00:54:13.440><c> By</c><00:54:13.599><c> the</c><00:54:13.680><c> way,</c> again it's a work of genius. By the way, the<00:54:14.079><c> carry</c><00:54:14.480><c> premiums</c><00:54:14.880><c> that</c><00:54:15.040><c> they</c><00:54:15.280><c> charge</c><00:54:15.440><c> are</c> the carry premiums that they charge are incredible<00:54:16.319><c> too.</c><00:54:16.640><c> People</c><00:54:16.960><c> don't</c><00:54:17.200><c> know</c><00:54:17.440><c> or</c>

incredible too. People don't know or discuss<00:54:18.480><c> enough.</c> discuss enough. >> Unprecedented<00:54:20.240><c> 40</c><00:54:20.640><c> 50%</c><00:54:21.200><c> in</c><00:54:21.440><c> cases</c><00:54:21.920><c> 40</c><00:54:22.319><c> 50%.</c> >> Unprecedented 40 50% in cases 40 50%. Get<00:54:23.280><c> my</c><00:54:23.440><c> LPS.</c><00:54:24.319><c> Leave</c><00:54:24.480><c> it.</c><00:54:24.960><c> You</c><00:54:25.119><c> want</c><00:54:25.359><c> access.</c> Get my LPS. Leave it. You want access.

>> Congratulations. >> And<00:54:27.839><c> what</c><00:54:28.000><c> I</c><00:54:28.160><c> like</c><00:54:28.400><c> about</c><00:54:28.559><c> it</c><00:54:28.720><c> is</c><00:54:29.200><c> to</c><00:54:29.440><c> be</c><00:54:29.520><c> clear,</c> >> And what I like about it is to be clear, I<00:54:29.920><c> mean</c><00:54:30.079><c> the</c><00:54:30.240><c> original</c><00:54:30.480><c> idea</c><00:54:30.720><c> was</c><00:54:30.880><c> to</c><00:54:31.119><c> help</c> I mean the original idea was to help

startups.<00:54:31.839><c> So</c><00:54:32.000><c> I</c><00:54:32.160><c> know</c><00:54:32.319><c> it's</c><00:54:32.559><c> kind</c><00:54:32.640><c> of</c><00:54:32.800><c> one</c><00:54:32.880><c> of</c> startups. So I know it's kind of one of those<00:54:33.119><c> things</c><00:54:33.280><c> that</c><00:54:33.440><c> I</c><00:54:33.599><c> believe</c><00:54:33.760><c> to</c><00:54:34.000><c> be</c><00:54:34.079><c> true</c> those things that I believe to be true which<00:54:34.559><c> is</c><00:54:34.880><c> oddly</c><00:54:35.280><c> enough</c><00:54:35.920><c> as</c><00:54:36.079><c> a</c><00:54:36.319><c> person</c><00:54:36.480><c> who's</c>

which is oddly enough as a person who's very<00:54:36.800><c> much</c><00:54:36.960><c> invest</c><00:54:37.359><c> in</c><00:54:37.520><c> mind.</c><00:54:38.000><c> Some</c><00:54:38.160><c> of</c><00:54:38.240><c> the</c> very much invest in mind. Some of the hugest<00:54:38.880><c> fortunes</c><00:54:39.280><c> are</c><00:54:39.440><c> made</c><00:54:39.680><c> by</c><00:54:39.839><c> people</c><00:54:40.079><c> whose</c> hugest fortunes are made by people whose motivations<00:54:41.119><c> aren't</c><00:54:41.920><c> oh</c><00:54:42.160><c> I'm</c><00:54:42.400><c> going</c><00:54:42.480><c> to</c><00:54:42.559><c> be</c><00:54:42.720><c> a</c>

motivations aren't oh I'm going to be a great<00:54:43.040><c> investor.</c><00:54:43.599><c> It's</c><00:54:43.760><c> someone</c><00:54:44.000><c> who's</c><00:54:44.480><c> just</c> great investor. It's someone who's just I<00:54:45.520><c> want</c><00:54:45.599><c> to</c><00:54:45.760><c> do</c><00:54:45.920><c> this</c><00:54:46.079><c> thing</c><00:54:46.319><c> because</c><00:54:46.480><c> the</c> I want to do this thing because the world<00:54:46.880><c> needs</c><00:54:47.119><c> this</c><00:54:47.280><c> thing</c><00:54:47.440><c> and</c><00:54:47.599><c> it'll</c><00:54:47.839><c> be</c><00:54:48.000><c> fun</c>

world needs this thing and it'll be fun and<00:54:48.319><c> I</c><00:54:48.480><c> obviously</c><00:54:48.800><c> want</c><00:54:48.960><c> to</c><00:54:49.119><c> make</c><00:54:49.200><c> some</c><00:54:49.440><c> money.</c> and I obviously want to make some money. This<00:54:50.400><c> is</c><00:54:50.559><c> a</c><00:54:50.720><c> an</c><00:54:50.960><c> idea</c><00:54:51.119><c> and</c><00:54:51.280><c> it</c><00:54:51.440><c> turns</c><00:54:51.599><c> out</c><00:54:51.680><c> to</c><00:54:51.839><c> be</c>

This is a an idea and it turns out to be a<00:54:52.079><c> great</c><00:54:52.240><c> idea.</c><00:54:52.720><c> Turns</c><00:54:52.960><c> out</c><00:54:53.200><c> nine</c><00:54:53.599><c> people</c><00:54:54.160><c> in</c> a great idea. Turns out nine people in the<00:54:54.640><c> first</c><00:54:55.040><c> class</c><00:54:55.440><c> was</c><00:54:55.680><c> only</c><00:54:55.839><c> the</c><00:54:56.079><c> beginning.</c> the first class was only the beginning. >> Roy<00:54:57.119><c> is</c><00:54:57.280><c> just</c><00:54:57.520><c> like</c><00:54:57.680><c> me.</c><00:54:58.160><c> It</c><00:54:58.400><c> was</c><00:54:58.480><c> never</c><00:54:58.720><c> about</c>

>> Roy is just like me. It was never about money.<00:54:59.280><c> It</c><00:54:59.520><c> was</c><00:54:59.680><c> about</c><00:54:59.839><c> the</c><00:55:00.079><c> craft</c><00:55:00.400><c> of</c><00:55:00.640><c> the</c> money. It was about the craft of the podcast.<00:55:01.839><c> Yeah.</c> podcast. Yeah. >> Yes.<00:55:02.720><c> Harry,</c><00:55:03.200><c> you</c><00:55:03.760><c> you</c><00:55:03.920><c> can't</c><00:55:04.079><c> even</c><00:55:04.240><c> get</c> >> Yes. Harry, you you can't even get

through<00:55:04.559><c> the</c><00:55:04.720><c> sentence</c><00:55:05.040><c> without</c><00:55:05.359><c> smirking.</c> through the sentence without smirking. [laughter] >> Anyway,<00:55:08.400><c> enough</c><00:55:08.720><c> about</c><00:55:08.960><c> me.</c><00:55:09.280><c> Let's</c><00:55:09.520><c> talk</c> >> Anyway, enough about me. Let's talk about<00:55:09.920><c> me.</c><00:55:10.559><c> Um,</c><00:55:11.718><c> [laughter]</c> about me. Um, [laughter] >> let's<00:55:13.119><c> flip</c><00:55:13.280><c> the</c><00:55:13.440><c> mic</c><00:55:13.680><c> around</c>

>> let's flip the mic around >> again.<00:55:14.640><c> Literally,</c><00:55:14.880><c> I'm</c><00:55:15.119><c> nervous</c><00:55:15.440><c> we'll</c><00:55:15.760><c> have</c> >> again. Literally, I'm nervous we'll have a<00:55:16.000><c> topic</c><00:55:16.160><c> cuz</c><00:55:16.400><c> Rory's</c><00:55:16.880><c> face</c><00:55:17.040><c> is</c><00:55:17.359><c> like</c><00:55:17.599><c> very</c> a topic cuz Rory's face is like very real<00:55:18.160><c> time.</c> real time.

>> I'm<00:55:18.880><c> good.</c> >> I'm good. >> What<00:55:20.160><c> about</c><00:55:20.400><c> Phoebe</c><00:55:20.800><c> Gates</c><00:55:21.599><c> fear</c><00:55:22.000><c> drama?</c><00:55:22.880><c> No.</c> >> What about Phoebe Gates fear drama? No. Okay.<00:55:23.599><c> Clearly</c><00:55:23.920><c> no.</c><00:55:24.400><c> Uh,</c> Okay. Clearly no. Uh, >> I<00:55:25.280><c> didn't</c><00:55:25.440><c> like</c><00:55:25.599><c> I</c><00:55:25.760><c> didn't</c><00:55:25.920><c> like</c><00:55:26.079><c> the</c>

>> I didn't like I didn't like the criticism.<00:55:26.960><c> Um,</c><00:55:27.280><c> I</c><00:55:27.520><c> might</c><00:55:27.680><c> be</c><00:55:27.839><c> wrong.</c><00:55:28.480><c> I</c> criticism. Um, I might be wrong. I didn't<00:55:28.960><c> I</c><00:55:29.200><c> might</c><00:55:29.280><c> be</c><00:55:29.440><c> wrong.</c><00:55:29.839><c> Um</c><00:55:30.079><c> so</c> didn't I might be wrong. Um so >> let's<00:55:30.480><c> just</c><00:55:30.720><c> provide</c><00:55:30.960><c> some</c><00:55:31.119><c> context.</c><00:55:31.839><c> Fear</c><00:55:32.720><c> uh</c>

>> let's just provide some context. Fear uh Phoebe<00:55:33.359><c> Gates,</c><00:55:33.839><c> Bill</c><00:55:34.000><c> Gates's</c><00:55:34.559><c> daughter</c><00:55:35.280><c> and</c> Phoebe Gates, Bill Gates's daughter and her<00:55:35.839><c> co-founder</c><00:55:36.559><c> were</c><00:55:36.720><c> in</c><00:55:36.880><c> the</c><00:55:37.119><c> news</c><00:55:37.680><c> very</c><00:55:38.480><c> uh</c> her co-founder were in the news very uh critically<00:55:40.240><c> um</c><00:55:40.559><c> for</c><00:55:41.440><c> essentially</c><00:55:41.920><c> and</c><00:55:42.160><c> you</c>

critically um for essentially and you can<00:55:42.480><c> correct</c><00:55:42.720><c> me</c><00:55:42.800><c> if</c><00:55:42.960><c> I'm</c><00:55:43.119><c> wrong,</c><00:55:43.680><c> but</c><00:55:44.079><c> their</c> can correct me if I'm wrong, but their product<00:55:44.800><c> fear</c><00:55:45.200><c> was</c><00:55:45.520><c> injecting</c><00:55:46.240><c> their</c><00:55:46.559><c> code</c><00:55:47.040><c> in</c> product fear was injecting their code in to<00:55:47.599><c> take</c><00:55:47.920><c> attribution</c><00:55:48.640><c> when</c><00:55:48.880><c> it</c><00:55:49.200><c> probably</c>

to take attribution when it probably shouldn't<00:55:49.839><c> have</c><00:55:50.079><c> been</c><00:55:50.240><c> attributed</c><00:55:50.720><c> to</c><00:55:50.880><c> them</c> shouldn't have been attributed to them in<00:55:51.359><c> terms</c><00:55:51.520><c> of</c><00:55:51.680><c> online</c><00:55:52.079><c> e-commerce</c><00:55:52.799><c> sales.</c><00:55:53.839><c> And</c> in terms of online e-commerce sales. And that's<00:55:55.599><c> the</c><00:55:55.839><c> story.</c><00:55:56.319><c> taking</c><00:55:56.640><c> credit</c><00:55:56.880><c> where</c>

that's the story. taking credit where they<00:55:57.200><c> shouldn't</c><00:55:57.440><c> have</c><00:55:57.599><c> done.</c> they shouldn't have done. >> Jason, >> listen,<00:55:59.839><c> I'm</c><00:56:00.079><c> I</c><00:56:00.400><c> could</c><00:56:00.559><c> be</c><00:56:00.720><c> wrong,</c><00:56:01.040><c> okay?</c><00:56:01.440><c> Um,</c> >> listen, I'm I could be wrong, okay? Um, but<00:56:02.880><c> doing</c><00:56:03.200><c> basically</c><00:56:03.520><c> what</c><00:56:03.760><c> everyone</c><00:56:04.079><c> in</c>

but doing basically what everyone in your<00:56:04.480><c> industry</c><00:56:04.799><c> does,</c><00:56:05.359><c> doing</c><00:56:05.760><c> scammy</c> your industry does, doing scammy affiliate<00:56:06.640><c> marketing</c><00:56:06.960><c> when</c><00:56:07.200><c> it's</c><00:56:07.440><c> basically</c> affiliate marketing when it's basically part<00:56:08.640><c> of</c><00:56:08.799><c> your</c><00:56:08.960><c> thing.</c><00:56:09.280><c> I</c><00:56:09.520><c> mean,</c><00:56:10.160><c> I</c><00:56:10.559><c> I</c><00:56:10.880><c> mean,</c>

part of your thing. I mean, I I mean, startups<00:56:11.520><c> cut</c><00:56:11.760><c> corners,</c><00:56:12.400><c> right?</c><00:56:12.640><c> It's</c><00:56:12.880><c> not</c> startups cut corners, right? It's not This<00:56:13.280><c> isn't</c><00:56:13.599><c> Delveesque,</c><00:56:14.400><c> but</c><00:56:14.640><c> everyone</c><00:56:15.040><c> cuts</c> This isn't Delveesque, but everyone cuts a<00:56:15.440><c> a</c><00:56:15.599><c> corn</c><00:56:15.839><c> when</c><00:56:16.079><c> everyone</c><00:56:16.319><c> in</c><00:56:16.480><c> your</c><00:56:16.640><c> industry</c>

a a corn when everyone in your industry is<00:56:18.079><c> slightly</c><00:56:18.559><c> faking</c><00:56:19.440><c> uh</c><00:56:19.839><c> credit</c><00:56:20.160><c> for</c> is slightly faking uh credit for affiliate<00:56:20.799><c> fees,</c><00:56:21.200><c> including</c><00:56:21.599><c> Honey</c><00:56:22.000><c> when</c> affiliate fees, including Honey when after<00:56:22.559><c> PayPal</c><00:56:23.040><c> bought</c><00:56:23.280><c> it</c><00:56:23.760><c> and</c><00:56:24.000><c> it's</c><00:56:24.319><c> standard</c>

after PayPal bought it and it's standard course.<00:56:25.839><c> Um,</c><00:56:26.880><c> I</c><00:56:27.040><c> I</c><00:56:27.359><c> it's</c><00:56:27.599><c> not</c><00:56:27.680><c> that</c><00:56:27.839><c> I</c><00:56:28.000><c> don't</c> course. Um, I I it's not that I don't want<00:56:28.240><c> to</c><00:56:28.319><c> be</c><00:56:28.480><c> critical.</c><00:56:28.880><c> It's</c><00:56:29.040><c> just</c><00:56:29.520><c> it</c><00:56:29.520><c> it</c> want to be critical. It's just it it

doesn't<00:56:30.240><c> rise</c><00:56:30.559><c> to</c><00:56:30.799><c> the</c><00:56:31.040><c> to</c><00:56:31.200><c> the</c><00:56:31.359><c> level</c><00:56:31.520><c> of</c> doesn't rise to the to the level of outrage<00:56:32.079><c> in</c><00:56:32.319><c> me.</c><00:56:32.640><c> Um,</c><00:56:33.200><c> and</c><00:56:33.680><c> the</c><00:56:34.000><c> whole</c><00:56:34.160><c> area</c><00:56:34.400><c> of</c> outrage in me. Um, and the whole area of affiliate<00:56:35.040><c> marketing</c><00:56:35.359><c> is</c><00:56:35.599><c> scammy</c><00:56:36.079><c> on</c><00:56:36.240><c> top</c><00:56:36.319><c> of</c>

affiliate marketing is scammy on top of scammy<00:56:36.960><c> on</c><00:56:37.119><c> top</c><00:56:37.280><c> of</c><00:56:37.440><c> scammy</c><00:56:38.319><c> on</c><00:56:38.480><c> top</c><00:56:38.640><c> of</c><00:56:38.960><c> dark</c> scammy on top of scammy on top of dark dark<00:56:39.599><c> codes.</c><00:56:40.000><c> Impossible</c><00:56:40.559><c> to</c><00:56:40.720><c> cancel</c> dark codes. Impossible to cancel subscriptions.<00:56:42.240><c> Putting</c><00:56:42.640><c> stuff</c><00:56:42.880><c> in</c><00:56:43.119><c> your</c><00:56:43.520><c> uh</c>

subscriptions. Putting stuff in your uh in<00:56:43.839><c> your</c><00:56:44.079><c> in</c><00:56:44.319><c> your</c><00:56:44.640><c> um</c><00:56:45.520><c> in</c><00:56:45.760><c> your</c><00:56:46.160><c> uh</c><00:56:46.559><c> purchase</c> in your in your um in your uh purchase box<00:56:47.760><c> or</c><00:56:47.920><c> your</c><00:56:48.000><c> checkout</c><00:56:48.319><c> that</c><00:56:48.480><c> you</c><00:56:48.640><c> didn't</c> box or your checkout that you didn't even<00:56:48.880><c> intend</c><00:56:49.119><c> to</c><00:56:49.359><c> buy,</c><00:56:49.760><c> right?</c><00:56:50.079><c> Oh,</c><00:56:50.240><c> I</c><00:56:50.400><c> I</c><00:56:50.880><c> How</c>

even intend to buy, right? Oh, I I How did<00:56:51.200><c> I</c><00:56:51.359><c> buy</c><00:56:51.599><c> seven</c><00:56:51.920><c> subscriptions</c><00:56:52.400><c> to</c><00:56:52.640><c> Outlook</c> did I buy seven subscriptions to Outlook 365?<00:56:53.920><c> Thank</c><00:56:54.160><c> Thank</c><00:56:54.319><c> you</c><00:56:54.480><c> very</c><00:56:54.640><c> much,</c><00:56:54.799><c> GoDaddy.</c> 365? Thank Thank you very much, GoDaddy. Right.<00:56:55.760><c> I</c><00:56:55.920><c> mean,</c><00:56:56.079><c> I</c><00:56:56.240><c> don't</c><00:56:56.319><c> think</c><00:56:56.400><c> GoDaddy</c>

Right. I mean, I don't think GoDaddy could<00:56:57.119><c> exist</c><00:56:57.359><c> if</c><00:56:57.599><c> it</c><00:56:58.000><c> did</c><00:56:58.160><c> hadn't</c><00:56:58.480><c> perfected</c> could exist if it did hadn't perfected getting<00:56:59.520><c> you</c><00:56:59.680><c> to</c><00:56:59.839><c> stick</c><00:57:00.160><c> stuff</c><00:57:00.400><c> when</c><00:57:00.640><c> you</c><00:57:00.720><c> buy</c> getting you to stick stuff when you buy a<00:57:01.040><c> domain</c><00:57:01.280><c> name</c><00:57:01.520><c> you</c><00:57:01.760><c> never</c><00:57:01.920><c> knew.</c><00:57:02.400><c> I</c><00:57:02.640><c> got</c><00:57:02.799><c> so</c>

a domain name you never knew. I got so many<00:57:03.200><c> Outlook</c><00:57:03.680><c> 360</c><00:57:04.160><c> subscriptions</c><00:57:04.559><c> on</c> many Outlook 360 subscriptions on GoDaddy<00:57:05.200><c> domains.</c><00:57:05.520><c> I</c><00:57:05.599><c> don't</c><00:57:05.680><c> even</c><00:57:05.839><c> know</c><00:57:05.920><c> how</c> GoDaddy domains. I don't even know how to<00:57:06.160><c> shut</c><00:57:06.319><c> them</c><00:57:06.480><c> off,</c><00:57:06.720><c> guys.</c><00:57:07.119><c> Yeah,</c><00:57:07.280><c> I</c><00:57:07.440><c> got</c><00:57:07.520><c> to</c>

to shut them off, guys. Yeah, I got to contact<00:57:08.160><c> someone,</c><00:57:08.480><c> but</c><00:57:08.720><c> I</c><00:57:08.880><c> need</c><00:57:09.040><c> my</c><00:57:09.200><c> pin</c><00:57:09.520><c> code</c> contact someone, but I need my pin code and<00:57:10.400><c> everyone</c><00:57:10.720><c> has</c><00:57:10.960><c> a</c><00:57:11.119><c> different</c><00:57:11.359><c> pin</c><00:57:11.599><c> code</c><00:57:11.760><c> at</c> and everyone has a different pin code at GoDaddy.<00:57:12.400><c> Like,</c><00:57:12.559><c> I</c><00:57:12.640><c> don't</c><00:57:12.880><c> remember</c><00:57:13.119><c> my</c><00:57:13.280><c> pin</c>

GoDaddy. Like, I don't remember my pin code<00:57:13.760><c> from</c><00:57:13.920><c> a</c><00:57:14.319><c> domain</c><00:57:14.640><c> I</c><00:57:14.799><c> bought</c><00:57:15.040><c> 11</c><00:57:15.280><c> years</c> code from a domain I bought 11 years ago,<00:57:15.599><c> but</c><00:57:15.839><c> I'm</c><00:57:15.920><c> paying</c><00:57:16.160><c> Outlook</c><00:57:16.559><c> 3609.95</c><00:57:17.680><c> a</c> ago, but I'm paying Outlook 3609.95 a month<00:57:18.079><c> forever</c><00:57:18.400><c> for</c><00:57:18.559><c> that</c><00:57:18.720><c> domain,</c><00:57:19.200><c> right?</c><00:57:19.680><c> So</c>

month forever for that domain, right? So when<00:57:20.000><c> GoDaddy</c><00:57:20.559><c> does</c><00:57:20.720><c> that,</c><00:57:20.960><c> I</c><00:57:21.119><c> just</c><00:57:21.280><c> can't</c><00:57:21.520><c> get</c> when GoDaddy does that, I just can't get that<00:57:21.839><c> outrage</c><00:57:22.240><c> that</c><00:57:22.480><c> that</c><00:57:23.040><c> and</c><00:57:23.280><c> it's</c><00:57:23.520><c> not</c><00:57:23.680><c> like</c> that outrage that that and it's not like Phoebe's<00:57:24.319><c> the</c><00:57:24.559><c> director</c><00:57:24.880><c> of</c><00:57:25.119><c> marketing.</c><00:57:25.440><c> I</c>

Phoebe's the director of marketing. I mean,<00:57:25.760><c> she's</c><00:57:26.000><c> running</c><00:57:26.160><c> the</c><00:57:26.400><c> company,</c><00:57:26.640><c> right?</c> mean, she's running the company, right? The<00:57:27.040><c> team</c><00:57:27.200><c> did</c><00:57:27.359><c> it.</c><00:57:27.520><c> I'm</c><00:57:27.760><c> just</c><00:57:28.079><c> I</c><00:57:28.319><c> feel</c><00:57:28.400><c> like</c><00:57:28.559><c> we</c> The team did it. I'm just I feel like we got<00:57:28.880><c> bigger</c><00:57:29.200><c> things</c><00:57:29.359><c> to</c><00:57:29.520><c> be</c><00:57:29.599><c> outraged</c><00:57:30.079><c> about</c>

got bigger things to be outraged about and<00:57:30.480><c> they</c><00:57:30.640><c> they</c><00:57:30.880><c> walked</c><00:57:31.119><c> it</c><00:57:31.280><c> back</c><00:57:31.440><c> and</c><00:57:31.680><c> we</c><00:57:31.839><c> move</c> and they they walked it back and we move on. >> I<00:57:32.799><c> can</c><00:57:32.960><c> go</c><00:57:33.200><c> with</c><00:57:33.440><c> that.</c><00:57:34.079><c> Naughty,</c><00:57:34.480><c> naughty.</c> >> I can go with that. Naughty, naughty.

Shouldn't<00:57:35.200><c> have</c><00:57:35.280><c> done.</c><00:57:35.680><c> Stop</c><00:57:35.920><c> doing</c><00:57:36.160><c> it.</c><00:57:36.880><c> Yet</c> Shouldn't have done. Stop doing it. Yet another<00:57:37.440><c> startup</c><00:57:37.839><c> slightly</c><00:57:38.160><c> misbehaves.</c><00:57:38.799><c> I'm</c> another startup slightly misbehaves. I'm kind<00:57:39.040><c> of</c><00:57:39.119><c> with</c><00:57:39.359><c> Jason.</c><00:57:39.680><c> It's</c><00:57:39.760><c> not</c><00:57:39.920><c> idea.</c><00:57:40.400><c> You</c>

kind of with Jason. It's not idea. You shouldn't<00:57:40.720><c> do</c><00:57:40.880><c> it.</c><00:57:41.040><c> It's</c><00:57:41.839><c> But</c><00:57:42.319><c> move</c><00:57:42.480><c> on.</c> shouldn't do it. It's But move on. >> Well,<00:57:43.599><c> I'll</c><00:57:43.680><c> say</c><00:57:43.839><c> the</c><00:57:44.000><c> related</c><00:57:44.240><c> question</c><00:57:44.400><c> just</c> >> Well, I'll say the related question just for<00:57:44.640><c> fun.</c><00:57:44.960><c> Harry,</c><00:57:45.119><c> you</c><00:57:45.200><c> can</c><00:57:45.280><c> cut</c><00:57:45.440><c> me</c><00:57:45.599><c> off</c><00:57:45.680><c> if</c>

for fun. Harry, you can cut me off if you<00:57:46.000><c> want.</c><00:57:46.720><c> for</c><00:57:46.880><c> for</c><00:57:47.119><c> investing</c><00:57:47.599><c> for</c><00:57:47.760><c> startups</c> you want. for for investing for startups is<00:57:48.559><c> if</c><00:57:48.799><c> everybody</c><00:57:49.280><c> does</c><00:57:49.520><c> it,</c><00:57:50.400><c> is</c><00:57:50.559><c> it</c><00:57:50.799><c> okay?</c> is if everybody does it, is it okay? I'll<00:57:52.400><c> give</c><00:57:52.480><c> you</c><00:57:52.640><c> an</c><00:57:52.799><c> example.</c><00:57:53.359><c> Almost</c><00:57:53.760><c> every</c>

I'll give you an example. Almost every GTM<00:57:55.119><c> AI</c><00:57:55.520><c> agentic</c><00:57:56.079><c> GTM</c><00:57:56.640><c> provider</c><00:57:57.520><c> is</c><00:57:57.920><c> buying</c> GTM AI agentic GTM provider is buying data<00:57:58.720><c> sources</c><00:57:59.599><c> that</c><00:57:59.920><c> they</c><00:58:00.160><c> probably</c> data sources that they probably shouldn't<00:58:00.640><c> be</c><00:58:00.799><c> buying.</c><00:58:01.599><c> Almost</c><00:58:01.920><c> every</c>

shouldn't be buying. Almost every startup<00:58:02.480><c> that</c><00:58:02.720><c> is</c><00:58:02.880><c> doing</c><00:58:03.040><c> GTM,</c><00:58:03.520><c> they</c><00:58:03.680><c> are</c> startup that is doing GTM, they are buying<00:58:04.480><c> whether</c><00:58:04.720><c> it's</c><00:58:04.960><c> a</c><00:58:05.280><c> whether</c><00:58:05.520><c> it's</c><00:58:05.680><c> a</c> buying whether it's a whether it's a cleanse<00:58:06.480><c> Chinese</c><00:58:06.880><c> data</c><00:58:07.280><c> center,</c><00:58:07.839><c> they</c><00:58:08.000><c> are</c>

cleanse Chinese data center, they are taking<00:58:08.400><c> your</c><00:58:08.799><c> like</c><00:58:09.200><c> you</c><00:58:09.440><c> can't</c><00:58:09.599><c> be</c><00:58:09.839><c> that</c><00:58:10.160><c> good</c> taking your like you can't be that good with<00:58:10.640><c> data</c><00:58:11.359><c> if</c><00:58:11.599><c> you're</c><00:58:11.760><c> getting</c><00:58:12.000><c> it</c><00:58:12.160><c> the</c> with data if you're getting it the legitimate<00:58:12.799><c> way.</c><00:58:13.119><c> Okay?</c><00:58:13.359><c> And</c><00:58:13.520><c> every</c><00:58:13.760><c> startup</c>

legitimate way. Okay? And every startup is<00:58:14.319><c> and</c><00:58:14.720><c> no,</c><00:58:15.119><c> it</c><00:58:15.359><c> wasn't</c><00:58:15.520><c> me.</c><00:58:15.760><c> I</c><00:58:16.000><c> used</c><00:58:16.160><c> it</c> is and no, it wasn't me. I used it through<00:58:16.400><c> an</c><00:58:16.559><c> API,</c><00:58:17.200><c> right?</c><00:58:17.599><c> Um,</c><00:58:18.319><c> but</c><00:58:18.480><c> if</c><00:58:18.640><c> you're</c> through an API, right? Um, but if you're

doing<00:58:19.040><c> something</c><00:58:19.280><c> where</c><00:58:19.520><c> LinkedIn's</c><00:58:20.000><c> going</c> doing something where LinkedIn's going to<00:58:20.160><c> sue</c><00:58:20.400><c> you</c><00:58:20.559><c> when</c><00:58:20.720><c> you</c><00:58:20.799><c> get</c><00:58:20.960><c> bigger,</c><00:58:21.280><c> others,</c> to sue you when you get bigger, others, it's<00:58:21.920><c> not</c><00:58:22.079><c> cool.</c><00:58:22.480><c> But</c><00:58:22.799><c> every</c><00:58:23.119><c> startup's</c><00:58:23.599><c> doing</c>

it's not cool. But every startup's doing it.<00:58:23.920><c> Is</c><00:58:24.000><c> it</c><00:58:24.160><c> okay,</c><00:58:24.480><c> guys,</c><00:58:24.640><c> if</c><00:58:25.200><c> like</c><00:58:25.599><c> we're</c> it. Is it okay, guys, if like we're cutting<00:58:26.079><c> corners,</c><00:58:26.400><c> but</c><00:58:26.640><c> when</c><00:58:26.799><c> we're</c><00:58:27.040><c> bigger,</c> cutting corners, but when we're bigger, we'll<00:58:28.079><c> cut</c><00:58:28.319><c> back.</c><00:58:28.559><c> What</c><00:58:28.720><c> if</c><00:58:28.880><c> everybody's</c>

we'll cut back. What if everybody's doing<00:58:29.520><c> it?</c><00:58:29.839><c> What</c><00:58:30.000><c> if</c><00:58:30.160><c> everybody's</c><00:58:30.480><c> doing</c> doing it? What if everybody's doing affiliate<00:58:31.040><c> marketing?</c><00:58:31.280><c> What</c><00:58:31.440><c> if</c><00:58:31.599><c> everybody's</c> affiliate marketing? What if everybody's using<00:58:32.400><c> sketchy</c><00:58:33.119><c> uh</c><00:58:33.280><c> data</c><00:58:33.599><c> sources?</c><00:58:34.240><c> Um,</c><00:58:35.119><c> you</c>

using sketchy uh data sources? Um, you know,<00:58:35.359><c> in</c><00:58:35.520><c> B2B,</c><00:58:36.000><c> it's,</c><00:58:36.559><c> you</c><00:58:36.720><c> know,</c><00:58:36.880><c> I've</c> know, in B2B, it's, you know, I've always<00:58:37.359><c> said</c><00:58:37.520><c> no</c><00:58:37.760><c> to</c><00:58:37.920><c> those,</c><00:58:38.240><c> but</c><00:58:38.640><c> um</c> always said no to those, but um sometimes<00:58:39.119><c> they</c><00:58:39.359><c> get</c><00:58:39.520><c> big.</c><00:58:40.000><c> But</c><00:58:40.160><c> I</c><00:58:40.319><c> do</c><00:58:40.480><c> think</c>

sometimes they get big. But I do think in<00:58:40.799><c> the</c><00:58:40.960><c> era</c><00:58:41.119><c> of</c><00:58:41.359><c> greed</c><00:58:41.839><c> when</c><00:58:42.000><c> the</c><00:58:42.160><c> when</c><00:58:42.400><c> the</c> in the era of greed when the when the outcomes<00:58:42.880><c> are</c><00:58:43.119><c> so</c><00:58:43.359><c> big</c><00:58:44.160><c> it's</c><00:58:44.400><c> hard</c><00:58:44.480><c> to</c><00:58:44.640><c> tell</c><00:58:44.799><c> a</c> outcomes are so big it's hard to tell a

founder<00:58:45.280><c> to</c><00:58:45.520><c> do</c><00:58:45.760><c> no</c><00:58:46.240><c> when</c><00:58:46.480><c> it's</c><00:58:46.720><c> when</c><00:58:46.960><c> it's</c> founder to do no when it's when it's standard<00:58:47.440><c> in</c><00:58:47.680><c> the</c><00:58:47.839><c> industry</c><00:58:49.040><c> when</c><00:58:49.200><c> when</c><00:58:49.520><c> you</c> standard in the industry when when you look<00:58:49.680><c> at</c><00:58:50.079><c> you</c><00:58:50.160><c> know</c><00:58:50.319><c> there's</c><00:58:50.480><c> just</c><00:58:50.640><c> so</c><00:58:50.799><c> many</c>

look at you know there's just so many examples<00:58:51.359><c> even</c><00:58:51.599><c> and</c><00:58:51.760><c> I</c><00:58:51.920><c> know</c><00:58:52.000><c> it's</c><00:58:52.160><c> extreme</c> examples even and I know it's extreme but<00:58:52.640><c> even</c><00:58:52.799><c> when</c><00:58:52.960><c> you</c><00:58:53.119><c> look</c><00:58:53.200><c> at</c><00:58:53.680><c> poly</c><00:58:54.000><c> market</c><00:58:54.319><c> at</c> but even when you look at poly market at all<00:58:54.720><c> like</c><00:58:55.040><c> that</c><00:58:55.280><c> was</c><00:58:55.440><c> some</c><00:58:55.680><c> sketchy</c><00:58:56.000><c> stuff</c><00:58:56.240><c> and</c>

all like that was some sketchy stuff and like<00:58:56.720><c> pretty</c><00:58:56.960><c> good</c><00:58:57.119><c> returns</c><00:58:57.440><c> on</c><00:58:57.680><c> paper</c><00:58:58.000><c> right</c> like pretty good returns on paper right and<00:58:58.400><c> to</c><00:58:58.640><c> Harry's</c><00:58:58.960><c> point</c><00:58:59.200><c> I</c><00:58:59.359><c> probably</c><00:58:59.520><c> could</c> and to Harry's point I probably could sell<00:58:59.760><c> my</c><00:59:00.000><c> polymarket</c><00:59:00.559><c> stock</c><00:59:00.720><c> if</c><00:59:00.880><c> I</c><00:59:01.040><c> had</c><00:59:01.119><c> any</c>

sell my polymarket stock if I had any right<00:59:01.839><c> or</c><00:59:02.079><c> Khi</c><00:59:02.559><c> stock</c><00:59:03.040><c> I</c><00:59:03.280><c> probably</c><00:59:03.440><c> could</c><00:59:03.599><c> have</c> right or Khi stock I probably could have sold<00:59:04.000><c> it</c><00:59:04.160><c> even</c><00:59:04.400><c> if</c><00:59:04.880><c> some</c><00:59:05.359><c> I</c><00:59:05.599><c> mean</c><00:59:05.680><c> if</c> sold it even if some I mean if everybody's<00:59:06.400><c> doing</c><00:59:06.559><c> it</c><00:59:06.865><c> [laughter]</c>

everybody's doing it [laughter] >> you<00:59:08.160><c> know</c><00:59:08.240><c> I</c><00:59:08.480><c> will</c><00:59:08.640><c> confess</c><00:59:09.119><c> when</c><00:59:09.280><c> you</c><00:59:09.520><c> started</c> >> you know I will confess when you started I<00:59:10.319><c> this</c><00:59:10.640><c> conversation</c><00:59:11.200><c> I</c><00:59:11.440><c> was</c><00:59:11.520><c> like</c><00:59:11.760><c> no</c><00:59:12.079><c> you</c> I this conversation I was like no you

shouldn't<00:59:12.559><c> do</c><00:59:12.720><c> it</c><00:59:13.040><c> because</c><00:59:13.680><c> you</c><00:59:13.839><c> know</c><00:59:13.920><c> I</c><00:59:14.079><c> can</c> shouldn't do it because you know I can make<00:59:14.400><c> the</c><00:59:14.640><c> distinction</c><00:59:15.040><c> Einstein</c><00:59:15.680><c> between</c> make the distinction Einstein between just<00:59:16.400><c> again</c><00:59:16.640><c> for</c><00:59:16.880><c> context</c><00:59:17.280><c> folks</c><00:59:18.480><c> there</c><00:59:18.799><c> are</c>

just again for context folks there are it's<00:59:19.599><c> illegal</c><00:59:19.920><c> to</c><00:59:20.079><c> scrape</c><00:59:20.480><c> LinkedIn</c><00:59:20.960><c> and</c><00:59:21.200><c> most</c> it's illegal to scrape LinkedIn and most people<00:59:21.680><c> don't</c><00:59:21.920><c> do</c><00:59:22.000><c> it</c><00:59:22.160><c> but</c><00:59:22.319><c> there</c><00:59:22.559><c> are</c> people don't do it but there are companies<00:59:22.960><c> that</c><00:59:23.280><c> aggregate</c><00:59:24.079><c> information</c>

companies that aggregate information from<00:59:24.799><c> a</c><00:59:24.960><c> number</c><00:59:25.119><c> of</c><00:59:25.200><c> sources</c><00:59:25.680><c> including</c> from a number of sources including LinkedIn<00:59:26.559><c> and</c><00:59:26.799><c> many</c><00:59:27.040><c> reputable</c><00:59:27.520><c> companies</c> LinkedIn and many reputable companies buy<00:59:28.079><c> from</c><00:59:28.240><c> those</c><00:59:28.480><c> companies</c><00:59:29.119><c> so</c><00:59:29.359><c> it's</c><00:59:29.599><c> like</c><00:59:29.839><c> I</c>

buy from those companies so it's like I don't<00:59:30.160><c> do</c><00:59:30.319><c> bad</c><00:59:30.559><c> things</c><00:59:30.799><c> but</c><00:59:30.960><c> I</c><00:59:31.119><c> know</c><00:59:31.200><c> a</c><00:59:31.359><c> person</c> don't do bad things but I know a person who's<00:59:31.760><c> done</c><00:59:31.920><c> bad</c><00:59:32.079><c> things</c><00:59:32.240><c> and</c><00:59:32.400><c> I</c><00:59:32.559><c> give</c><00:59:32.720><c> him</c> who's done bad things and I give him

money<00:59:33.040><c> so</c><00:59:33.200><c> that's</c><00:59:33.440><c> the</c><00:59:33.599><c> example</c><00:59:33.839><c> you're</c><00:59:34.079><c> using</c> money so that's the example you're using so<00:59:35.119><c> Jason</c><00:59:35.520><c> so</c><00:59:35.680><c> yeah</c><00:59:35.920><c> I</c><00:59:36.079><c> I</c><00:59:36.799><c> so</c><00:59:37.200><c> part</c><00:59:37.440><c> of</c><00:59:37.520><c> me</c> so Jason so yeah I I so part of me wanted<00:59:38.079><c> to</c><00:59:38.240><c> say</c><00:59:38.640><c> no</c><00:59:38.960><c> you're</c><00:59:39.200><c> wrong</c><00:59:39.599><c> cuz</c><00:59:39.839><c> I</c>

wanted to say no you're wrong cuz I think<00:59:40.480><c> the</c><00:59:40.799><c> cookie</c><00:59:41.119><c> stuffing</c><00:59:41.520><c> that</c><00:59:41.680><c> FIA</c><00:59:42.000><c> has</c> think the cookie stuffing that FIA has alleged<00:59:42.400><c> to</c><00:59:42.559><c> have</c><00:59:42.720><c> done</c><00:59:43.040><c> is</c><00:59:43.440><c> more</c><00:59:44.000><c> intentful</c> alleged to have done is more intentful and<00:59:45.440><c> more</c> and more within<00:59:47.280><c> your</c><00:59:47.520><c> own</c><00:59:47.920><c> valition</c><00:59:48.400><c> than</c><00:59:48.640><c> buying</c>

within your own valition than buying from<00:59:49.119><c> someone</c><00:59:49.359><c> who</c><00:59:49.599><c> themselves</c><00:59:49.920><c> have</c><00:59:50.160><c> done</c> from someone who themselves have done something<00:59:50.559><c> wrong.</c><00:59:50.880><c> So</c><00:59:50.960><c> they</c><00:59:51.040><c> have</c><00:59:51.119><c> a</c><00:59:51.280><c> little</c> something wrong. So they have a little bit<00:59:51.440><c> of</c><00:59:51.599><c> distance.</c><00:59:51.920><c> So</c><00:59:52.000><c> I</c><00:59:52.160><c> could</c><00:59:52.240><c> argue</c><00:59:52.559><c> toss</c>

bit of distance. So I could argue toss with<00:59:53.119><c> you</c><00:59:53.440><c> but</c><00:59:53.680><c> when</c><00:59:53.839><c> you</c><00:59:54.000><c> started</c><00:59:54.319><c> talking</c><00:59:54.640><c> I</c> with you but when you started talking I realized<00:59:55.280><c> so</c><00:59:55.520><c> many</c><00:59:55.760><c> breakthroughs</c><00:59:56.319><c> rely</c><00:59:56.640><c> on</c><00:59:56.799><c> a</c> realized so many breakthroughs rely on a little<00:59:57.119><c> bit</c><00:59:57.280><c> of</c><00:59:57.440><c> pushing</c><00:59:57.760><c> the</c><00:59:58.000><c> boundaries.</c><00:59:58.400><c> I</c>

little bit of pushing the boundaries. I mean<00:59:58.720><c> Uber</c><00:59:59.119><c> did</c><00:59:59.359><c> with</c><00:59:59.680><c> taxi</c><01:00:00.160><c> regulation,</c> mean Uber did with taxi regulation, Airbnb<01:00:01.599><c> did</c><01:00:01.839><c> with</c><01:00:02.079><c> regulation.</c><01:00:02.640><c> You're</c> Airbnb did with regulation. You're right.<01:00:03.040><c> Poly</c><01:00:03.440><c> market</c><01:00:03.760><c> did</c><01:00:04.000><c> in</c><01:00:04.240><c> terms</c><01:00:04.400><c> of</c><01:00:04.559><c> how</c>

right. Poly market did in terms of how they're<01:00:05.040><c> regulated.</c><01:00:05.599><c> So</c><01:00:06.319><c> I'm</c><01:00:06.480><c> I'm</c><01:00:06.720><c> actually</c> they're regulated. So I'm I'm actually going<01:00:07.040><c> to</c><01:00:07.119><c> get</c><01:00:07.280><c> off</c><01:00:07.440><c> my</c><01:00:07.680><c> high</c><01:00:07.920><c> horse</c><01:00:08.240><c> and</c><01:00:08.400><c> say</c> going to get off my high horse and say you<01:00:08.880><c> actually</c><01:00:09.040><c> won</c><01:00:09.280><c> that</c><01:00:09.440><c> round</c><01:00:09.760><c> is</c><01:00:10.000><c> that</c><01:00:10.799><c> I</c>

you actually won that round is that I mean<01:00:11.200><c> the</c><01:00:11.520><c> interesting</c><01:00:11.839><c> thing</c><01:00:12.000><c> is</c><01:00:12.400><c> and</c> mean the interesting thing is and actually<01:00:13.119><c> as</c><01:00:13.359><c> another</c><01:00:13.680><c> reminder</c><01:00:14.160><c> but</c><01:00:14.319><c> on</c> actually as another reminder but on tropic<01:00:14.799><c> and</c><01:00:14.880><c> open</c><01:00:15.200><c> AI</c><01:00:15.520><c> did</c><01:00:15.760><c> in</c><01:00:16.000><c> terms</c><01:00:16.240><c> of</c><01:00:16.480><c> how</c>

tropic and open AI did in terms of how they<01:00:16.960><c> trained</c><01:00:17.599><c> information</c><01:00:18.079><c> and</c><01:00:18.480><c> generally</c> they trained information and generally my<01:00:19.040><c> observation</c><01:00:19.359><c> is</c><01:00:19.680><c> all</c><01:00:19.839><c> those</c><01:00:20.160><c> chickens</c> my observation is all those chickens come<01:00:20.720><c> home</c><01:00:20.880><c> to</c><01:00:21.119><c> roost</c><01:00:22.000><c> and</c><01:00:22.240><c> you</c><01:00:22.480><c> end</c><01:00:22.640><c> up</c><01:00:22.880><c> paying</c>

come home to roost and you end up paying the<01:00:23.359><c> tax</c><01:00:23.760><c> you</c><01:00:23.920><c> know</c><01:00:24.000><c> you</c><01:00:24.160><c> end</c><01:00:24.319><c> up</c><01:00:24.480><c> getting</c> the tax you know you end up getting caught<01:00:24.960><c> with</c><01:00:25.119><c> it</c><01:00:25.839><c> but</c><01:00:26.480><c> if</c><01:00:26.799><c> you</c><01:00:27.040><c> succeed</c><01:00:28.000><c> it's</c> caught with it but if you succeed it's all<01:00:28.559><c> okay.</c><01:00:29.040><c> I</c><01:00:29.200><c> I</c><01:00:29.599><c> I'm</c><01:00:30.160><c> I'm</c><01:00:30.400><c> going</c><01:00:30.559><c> to</c><01:00:30.640><c> do</c><01:00:30.799><c> my</c>

all okay. I I I'm I'm going to do my trip<01:00:31.680><c> down</c><01:00:31.920><c> history.</c><01:00:32.240><c> There's</c><01:00:32.480><c> the</c> trip down history. There's the Elizabethan<01:00:33.440><c> quote,</c><01:00:33.680><c> "Treason</c><01:00:34.319><c> does</c><01:00:34.559><c> not</c> Elizabethan quote, "Treason does not succeed,<01:00:35.359><c> but</c><01:00:35.680><c> what's</c><01:00:35.920><c> the</c><01:00:36.160><c> reason?</c><01:00:36.799><c> If</c><01:00:37.040><c> it</c>

succeed, but what's the reason? If it does<01:00:37.440><c> succeed,</c><01:00:37.920><c> no</c><01:00:38.160><c> one</c><01:00:38.319><c> calls</c><01:00:38.559><c> it</c><01:00:38.720><c> treason."</c> does succeed, no one calls it treason." When<01:00:39.599><c> you</c><01:00:39.760><c> succeed</c><01:00:40.079><c> as</c><01:00:40.319><c> Uber,</c><01:00:40.640><c> you</c><01:00:40.799><c> just</c><01:00:40.960><c> get</c> When you succeed as Uber, you just get what<01:00:41.200><c> you</c><01:00:41.359><c> did</c><01:00:41.520><c> legalized.</c><01:00:42.319><c> When</c><01:00:42.480><c> you</c><01:00:42.640><c> succeed</c>

what you did legalized. When you succeed as<01:00:43.280><c> Airbnb,</c><01:00:43.920><c> you</c><01:00:44.079><c> get</c><01:00:44.160><c> what</c><01:00:44.240><c> you</c><01:00:44.319><c> did</c> as Airbnb, you get what you did legalized.<01:00:44.960><c> So,</c><01:00:45.200><c> yes,</c><01:00:45.760><c> there</c><01:00:46.000><c> are</c><01:00:46.240><c> examples</c> legalized. So, yes, there are examples of<01:00:46.720><c> that.</c><01:00:47.040><c> I</c><01:00:47.200><c> still</c><01:00:47.359><c> think</c><01:00:47.599><c> cookie</c><01:00:47.920><c> stuffing</c>

of that. I still think cookie stuffing is<01:00:48.480><c> a</c><01:00:48.640><c> little</c><01:00:48.799><c> bit</c><01:00:48.880><c> unlikely</c><01:00:49.359><c> to</c><01:00:49.599><c> get</c><01:00:49.839><c> over</c> is a little bit unlikely to get over that<01:00:50.319><c> line,</c><01:00:50.720><c> Jason.</c><01:00:51.200><c> But</c><01:00:51.599><c> fair</c><01:00:51.920><c> point,</c> that line, Jason. But fair point, there's<01:00:52.720><c> a</c><01:00:52.880><c> fair</c><01:00:53.119><c> amount</c><01:00:53.359><c> of</c><01:00:53.599><c> ethical</c><01:00:54.079><c> gray</c>

there's a fair amount of ethical gray areas.<01:00:54.880><c> But</c><01:00:55.200><c> going</c><01:00:55.520><c> back</c><01:00:55.680><c> to</c><01:00:55.839><c> where</c><01:00:56.000><c> we</c> areas. But going back to where we started<01:00:56.480><c> with</c><01:00:56.720><c> Apple,</c> started with Apple, there<01:00:58.799><c> are</c><01:00:58.960><c> gray</c><01:00:59.280><c> areas</c><01:00:59.520><c> and</c><01:00:59.760><c> then</c><01:00:59.920><c> there</c> there are gray areas and then there

areas<01:01:00.480><c> that</c><01:01:00.720><c> you</c><01:01:00.960><c> step</c><01:01:01.200><c> over</c><01:01:01.440><c> at</c><01:01:01.599><c> your</c><01:01:01.839><c> pearl.</c> areas that you step over at your pearl. And<01:01:02.400><c> I</c><01:01:02.559><c> think</c><01:01:02.799><c> that</c><01:01:03.457><c> [snorts]</c><01:01:03.760><c> that</c><01:01:04.160><c> maybe</c> And I think that [snorts] that maybe would<01:01:04.640><c> be</c><01:01:04.720><c> my</c><01:01:04.880><c> nuance</c><01:01:05.359><c> comment,</c>

would be my nuance comment, >> right?<01:01:06.640><c> Do</c><01:01:06.799><c> you</c><01:01:06.960><c> just</c><01:01:07.119><c> have</c><01:01:07.280><c> like</c><01:01:07.520><c> a</c><01:01:07.680><c> a</c><01:01:07.920><c> bunch</c> >> right? Do you just have like a a bunch of<01:01:08.319><c> these</c><01:01:08.640><c> quotes</c><01:01:09.119><c> percolating</c><01:01:09.839><c> in</c><01:01:10.079><c> your</c> of these quotes percolating in your head? >> I<01:01:11.040><c> got</c><01:01:11.200><c> so</c><01:01:11.359><c> much</c><01:01:11.520><c> noise</c><01:01:11.760><c> in</c><01:01:11.920><c> my</c><01:01:12.079><c> head,</c><01:01:12.240><c> Harry.</c>

>> I got so much noise in my head, Harry. It's<01:01:12.799><c> terrifying.</c><01:01:13.280><c> But</c><01:01:13.359><c> that's</c><01:01:13.599><c> between</c><01:01:13.760><c> me</c> It's terrifying. But that's between me and >> like,<01:01:14.400><c> you</c><01:01:14.480><c> know,</c><01:01:14.720><c> like</c><01:01:14.880><c> a</c><01:01:15.119><c> quote</c><01:01:15.359><c> on</c><01:01:15.680><c> treason</c> >> like, you know, like a quote on treason being<01:01:16.720><c> normalized.</c><01:01:17.599><c> Like</c><01:01:18.000><c> we</c><01:01:18.160><c> call</c><01:01:18.400><c> this</c>

being normalized. Like we call this reading,<01:01:18.880><c> but</c><01:01:19.119><c> your</c><01:01:19.280><c> generation's</c><01:01:19.839><c> given</c><01:01:20.079><c> up.</c> reading, but your generation's given up. And<01:01:21.920><c> I</c><01:01:22.079><c> don't</c><01:01:22.160><c> read</c><01:01:22.400><c> anything</c><01:01:22.720><c> longer</c><01:01:23.040><c> than</c><01:01:23.200><c> a</c> And I don't read anything longer than a tweet. >> I<01:01:24.079><c> know.</c><01:01:24.240><c> Signs</c><01:01:24.559><c> on</c><01:01:24.799><c> it.</c><01:01:25.119><c> I</c><01:01:25.280><c> think</c><01:01:25.359><c> we</c><01:01:25.520><c> should</c>

>> I know. Signs on it. I think we should do<01:01:25.839><c> the</c><01:01:26.079><c> stuff</c><01:01:26.240><c> at</c><01:01:26.400><c> the</c><01:01:26.559><c> end.</c><01:01:26.880><c> The</c><01:01:27.040><c> Carter</c> do the stuff at the end. The Carter stuff,<01:01:28.000><c> the</c><01:01:28.720><c> constellation</c><01:01:29.359><c> and</c><01:01:29.520><c> zoom</c><01:01:29.760><c> info</c> stuff, the constellation and zoom info stuff.<01:01:30.319><c> I</c><01:01:30.480><c> think</c><01:01:30.559><c> it's</c><01:01:30.720><c> some</c><01:01:30.880><c> interesting</c>

stuff. I think it's some interesting stuff<01:01:31.359><c> there.</c> stuff there. >> Okay,<01:01:32.319><c> let's</c><01:01:32.640><c> totally</c><01:01:32.960><c> do</c><01:01:33.119><c> it.</c><01:01:33.359><c> Let's</c><01:01:33.520><c> start</c> >> Okay, let's totally do it. Let's start with<01:01:33.839><c> the</c><01:01:34.000><c> Carter</c><01:01:34.400><c> stuff.</c><01:01:34.720><c> The</c><01:01:34.960><c> top</c><01:01:35.200><c> 5%</c><01:01:35.680><c> of</c> with the Carter stuff. The top 5% of

seed<01:01:36.319><c> rounds</c><01:01:36.640><c> hit</c><01:01:37.040><c> $200</c><01:01:37.440><c> million</c><01:01:38.079><c> valuation.</c> seed rounds hit $200 million valuation. Bro,<01:01:40.319><c> why</c><01:01:40.480><c> don't</c><01:01:40.640><c> you</c><01:01:40.799><c> take</c><01:01:40.960><c> us</c><01:01:41.119><c> away</c><01:01:41.359><c> there?</c> Bro, why don't you take us away there? Look,<01:01:42.160><c> I</c><01:01:42.319><c> thought</c><01:01:42.400><c> it</c><01:01:42.559><c> was</c><01:01:42.960><c> Carter</c><01:01:43.280><c> is</c><01:01:43.520><c> super</c>

Look, I thought it was Carter is super interesting<01:01:44.240><c> and</c><01:01:44.720><c> and</c><01:01:45.040><c> you</c><01:01:45.119><c> know</c><01:01:45.280><c> they</c><01:01:45.440><c> made</c><01:01:45.520><c> a</c> interesting and and you know they made a comment<01:01:45.920><c> is</c><01:01:46.079><c> that</c><01:01:46.319><c> you</c><01:01:46.400><c> know</c><01:01:46.480><c> you</c><01:01:46.640><c> look</c><01:01:46.720><c> at</c><01:01:46.799><c> the</c> comment is that you know you look at the

seed<01:01:47.119><c> dis</c><01:01:47.520><c> all</c><01:01:47.680><c> seed</c><01:01:47.920><c> pricing</c><01:01:48.240><c> has</c><01:01:48.480><c> gone</c><01:01:48.640><c> up</c> seed dis all seed pricing has gone up but<01:01:48.960><c> there's</c><01:01:49.200><c> this</c><01:01:49.440><c> small</c><01:01:49.760><c> percentage</c><01:01:50.640><c> that</c> but there's this small percentage that are<01:01:51.119><c> 200</c><01:01:51.520><c> million</c><01:01:51.839><c> pre</c><01:01:52.160><c> and</c><01:01:53.119><c> you</c><01:01:53.280><c> know</c><01:01:53.359><c> what's</c>

are 200 million pre and you know what's going<01:01:53.839><c> on</c><01:01:54.079><c> and</c><01:01:54.319><c> I</c><01:01:54.559><c> think</c><01:01:54.640><c> really</c><01:01:55.280><c> when</c><01:01:55.520><c> you</c> going on and I think really when you break<01:01:55.920><c> it</c><01:01:56.160><c> down</c><01:01:56.559><c> and</c><01:01:56.799><c> I</c><01:01:57.040><c> think</c><01:01:57.200><c> Ben</c><01:01:57.440><c> Braman</c><01:01:58.000><c> had</c> break it down and I think Ben Braman had

a<01:01:58.240><c> good</c><01:01:58.319><c> tweet</c><01:01:58.559><c> on</c><01:01:58.799><c> this</c><01:01:59.040><c> is</c><01:01:59.280><c> that</c><01:01:59.440><c> there's</c><01:01:59.760><c> a</c> a good tweet on this is that there's a couple<01:02:00.160><c> of</c><01:02:00.640><c> there's</c><01:02:00.960><c> a</c><01:02:01.200><c> couple</c><01:02:01.359><c> of</c><01:02:01.760><c> consensus</c> couple of there's a couple of consensus bet<01:02:03.040><c> areas</c><01:02:03.599><c> where</c><01:02:03.920><c> people</c><01:02:04.160><c> are</c><01:02:04.400><c> willing</c><01:02:04.720><c> and</c>

bet areas where people are willing and to<01:02:05.520><c> some</c><01:02:05.680><c> extent</c><01:02:06.000><c> have</c><01:02:06.240><c> to</c><01:02:06.319><c> bet</c><01:02:06.640><c> aggressively</c> to some extent have to bet aggressively in<01:02:07.680><c> terms</c><01:02:07.839><c> of</c><01:02:08.079><c> dollar</c><01:02:08.400><c> size</c><01:02:09.040><c> out</c><01:02:09.200><c> of</c><01:02:09.359><c> the</c><01:02:09.520><c> gate</c> in terms of dollar size out of the gate and<01:02:10.160><c> that's</c><01:02:10.319><c> why</c><01:02:10.400><c> the</c><01:02:10.559><c> prices</c><01:02:10.880><c> are</c><01:02:11.040><c> high.</c><01:02:11.119><c> I</c>

and that's why the prices are high. I mean,<01:02:11.839><c> all</c><01:02:12.079><c> these</c><01:02:12.720><c> Neil</c><01:02:13.440><c> Labs,</c><01:02:14.400><c> you</c><01:02:14.559><c> know,</c><01:02:14.640><c> if</c> mean, all these Neil Labs, you know, if it's<01:02:15.040><c> going</c><01:02:15.119><c> to</c><01:02:15.200><c> take</c><01:02:15.359><c> you</c><01:02:15.599><c> 300</c><01:02:16.000><c> million</c><01:02:16.640><c> to</c> it's going to take you 300 million to get<01:02:17.119><c> something</c><01:02:17.440><c> done,</c><01:02:18.079><c> there's</c><01:02:18.319><c> no</c><01:02:18.480><c> point</c>

get something done, there's no point raising<01:02:19.280><c> 20</c><01:02:19.520><c> at</c><01:02:19.839><c> 20</c><01:02:20.160><c> pre.</c><01:02:20.640><c> You're</c><01:02:20.799><c> just</c><01:02:20.960><c> not</c> raising 20 at 20 pre. You're just not going<01:02:21.200><c> to</c><01:02:21.359><c> get</c><01:02:21.520><c> there.</c><01:02:22.000><c> So,</c><01:02:22.319><c> there's</c><01:02:22.559><c> a</c><01:02:22.720><c> bunch</c> going to get there. So, there's a bunch of<01:02:23.040><c> those</c><01:02:23.359><c> deals</c><01:02:23.760><c> where</c><01:02:24.559><c> it's</c><01:02:25.040><c> 200</c><01:02:25.440><c> million</c><01:02:25.680><c> or</c>

of those deals where it's 200 million or 200<01:02:26.160><c> million.</c><01:02:26.400><c> So,</c><01:02:26.559><c> the</c><01:02:26.720><c> dilution,</c><01:02:27.760><c> maybe</c> 200 million. So, the dilution, maybe it's<01:02:28.319><c> even</c><01:02:28.559><c> more</c><01:02:28.720><c> than</c><01:02:28.799><c> that.</c><01:02:29.040><c> The</c><01:02:29.200><c> dilution</c> it's even more than that. The dilution might<01:02:29.839><c> be</c><01:02:30.000><c> 20%</c><01:02:30.400><c> or</c><01:02:30.559><c> more,</c><01:02:30.720><c> but</c><01:02:30.880><c> the</c><01:02:31.040><c> check</c><01:02:31.280><c> size</c>

might be 20% or more, but the check size is<01:02:32.240><c> 200</c><01:02:32.559><c> million</c><01:02:32.880><c> plus,</c><01:02:33.760><c> right?</c><01:02:34.000><c> And</c><01:02:34.160><c> the</c><01:02:34.319><c> pre-</c> is 200 million plus, right? And the pre- money<01:02:34.720><c> is</c><01:02:34.880><c> a</c><01:02:35.040><c> million.</c><01:02:35.680><c> That's</c><01:02:35.920><c> one</c><01:02:36.079><c> category,</c> money is a million. That's one category, the<01:02:36.559><c> NEO.</c><01:02:36.960><c> And</c><01:02:37.119><c> then</c><01:02:37.280><c> the</c><01:02:37.440><c> other</c><01:02:37.599><c> category</c><01:02:38.000><c> is</c>

the NEO. And then the other category is the<01:02:38.400><c> kind</c><01:02:38.559><c> of</c><01:02:40.000><c> agentic</c><01:02:40.799><c> inference</c><01:02:41.680><c> known</c><01:02:42.079><c> big</c> the kind of agentic inference known big market<01:02:42.960><c> maybe</c><01:02:43.200><c> a</c><01:02:43.359><c> little</c><01:02:43.440><c> bit</c><01:02:43.680><c> capital</c> market maybe a little bit capital intensive<01:02:44.640><c> not</c><01:02:44.799><c> quite</c><01:02:45.040><c> like</c><01:02:45.280><c> building</c><01:02:45.520><c> a</c>

intensive not quite like building a neolab<01:02:46.720><c> but</c><01:02:47.359><c> you</c><01:02:47.520><c> know</c><01:02:47.920><c> building</c><01:02:48.160><c> out</c><01:02:48.400><c> the</c><01:02:48.559><c> AI</c> neolab but you know building out the AI infrastructure<01:02:49.839><c> where</c><01:02:50.240><c> again</c><01:02:51.200><c> there's</c><01:02:51.520><c> a</c> infrastructure where again there's a belief<01:02:52.400><c> that</c><01:02:52.720><c> there's</c><01:02:52.960><c> a</c><01:02:53.119><c> wall</c><01:02:53.359><c> of</c><01:02:53.520><c> money</c>

belief that there's a wall of money around<01:02:55.920><c> the</c><01:02:56.240><c> spend</c><01:02:56.720><c> there</c><01:02:56.960><c> that</c><01:02:57.200><c> you</c><01:02:57.440><c> can</c> around the spend there that you can access<01:02:57.920><c> and</c><01:02:58.160><c> so</c><01:02:58.400><c> people</c><01:02:58.559><c> are</c><01:02:58.640><c> just</c><01:02:58.799><c> willing</c><01:02:59.040><c> to</c> access and so people are just willing to write<01:02:59.280><c> bigger</c><01:02:59.599><c> checks.</c><01:03:00.240><c> So</c><01:03:00.480><c> yeah,</c><01:03:00.799><c> it</c><01:03:01.040><c> it</c>

write bigger checks. So yeah, it it totally<01:03:01.520><c> makes</c><01:03:01.760><c> sense</c><01:03:02.079><c> and</c><01:03:02.319><c> it's</c><01:03:02.559><c> five</c><01:03:02.960><c> I</c><01:03:03.200><c> mean</c> totally makes sense and it's five I mean the<01:03:03.760><c> point</c><01:03:03.920><c> he</c><01:03:04.160><c> was</c><01:03:04.319><c> making</c><01:03:04.559><c> in</c><01:03:04.720><c> the</c><01:03:04.880><c> Carter</c> the point he was making in the Carter tweet<01:03:05.440><c> was</c><01:03:05.680><c> it's</c><01:03:05.920><c> not</c><01:03:06.000><c> the</c><01:03:06.160><c> norm.</c><01:03:06.960><c> You</c><01:03:07.040><c> know,</c>

tweet was it's not the norm. You know, ordinary<01:03:07.760><c> pricing</c><01:03:08.079><c> has</c><01:03:08.240><c> gone</c><01:03:08.400><c> up</c><01:03:08.640><c> 10</c><01:03:08.960><c> 20%.</c><01:03:10.079><c> But</c> ordinary pricing has gone up 10 20%. But top<01:03:10.559><c> desile</c><01:03:11.040><c> pricing</c><01:03:11.440><c> has</c><01:03:11.760><c> gone</c><01:03:11.920><c> up</c><01:03:12.400><c> 6x</c><01:03:12.880><c> or</c> top desile pricing has gone up 6x or something<01:03:13.280><c> like</c><01:03:13.520><c> that.</c><01:03:14.000><c> And</c><01:03:14.240><c> that's</c><01:03:14.480><c> really</c>

something like that. And that's really just<01:03:14.880><c> a</c><01:03:15.039><c> function</c><01:03:15.359><c> of</c><01:03:15.920><c> there</c><01:03:16.160><c> are</c><01:03:16.319><c> a</c><01:03:16.559><c> class</c><01:03:16.799><c> of</c> just a function of there are a class of bet<01:03:17.760><c> that</c><01:03:18.000><c> frankly</c><01:03:18.400><c> didn't</c><01:03:18.640><c> exist</c><01:03:18.960><c> 5</c><01:03:19.200><c> years</c> bet that frankly didn't exist 5 years ago.<01:03:20.160><c> There</c><01:03:20.319><c> weren't</c><01:03:20.720><c> I</c><01:03:20.880><c> mean</c><01:03:21.440><c> DD</c><01:03:21.839><c> has</c><01:03:22.000><c> that</c>

ago. There weren't I mean DD has that great<01:03:22.400><c> list</c><01:03:22.640><c> of</c><01:03:22.880><c> 60</c><01:03:23.200><c> plus</c><01:03:23.520><c> neolabs.</c><01:03:24.160><c> I</c><01:03:24.240><c> mean</c> great list of 60 plus neolabs. I mean six<01:03:24.640><c> years</c><01:03:24.720><c> ago</c><01:03:24.960><c> there</c><01:03:25.119><c> were</c><01:03:25.280><c> none</c><01:03:25.520><c> except</c> six years ago there were none except open<01:03:26.160><c> AI,</c><01:03:26.960><c> right?</c><01:03:27.280><c> That</c><01:03:27.520><c> bet</c><01:03:27.839><c> didn't</c><01:03:28.160><c> exist.</c>

open AI, right? That bet didn't exist. and<01:03:29.039><c> the</c><01:03:29.200><c> inference</c><01:03:29.680><c> bet</c><01:03:30.160><c> are</c><01:03:30.400><c> some</c><01:03:30.640><c> of</c><01:03:30.799><c> the</c> and the inference bet are some of the other<01:03:31.760><c> kind</c><01:03:32.000><c> of</c><01:03:32.079><c> heavy</c><01:03:32.559><c> dollar</c><01:03:32.799><c> bets.</c><01:03:33.599><c> You</c> other kind of heavy dollar bets. You know,<01:03:34.400><c> five</c><01:03:34.640><c> years</c><01:03:34.720><c> ago,</c><01:03:35.119><c> people</c><01:03:35.280><c> weren't</c>

know, five years ago, people weren't doing<01:03:35.760><c> those.</c><01:03:36.880><c> So,</c> doing those. So, >> look,<01:03:37.359><c> I</c><01:03:37.440><c> I</c><01:03:37.680><c> have</c><01:03:37.920><c> for</c><01:03:38.079><c> what</c><01:03:38.160><c> it's</c><01:03:38.319><c> worth</c><01:03:38.559><c> that</c> >> look, I I have for what it's worth that that's<01:03:39.039><c> I</c><01:03:39.280><c> have</c><01:03:39.359><c> a</c><01:03:39.520><c> slightly</c><01:03:39.839><c> different</c><01:03:40.079><c> and</c>

that's I have a slightly different and maybe<01:03:40.480><c> less</c><01:03:40.799><c> interesting</c><01:03:41.119><c> take</c><01:03:41.359><c> on</c><01:03:41.520><c> it.</c> maybe less interesting take on it. There's<01:03:42.000><c> one</c><01:03:42.160><c> thing</c><01:03:42.240><c> that's</c><01:03:42.480><c> new</c><01:03:42.559><c> here,</c><01:03:42.720><c> but</c> There's one thing that's new here, but the<01:03:43.039><c> one</c><01:03:43.200><c> thing</c><01:03:43.280><c> that's</c><01:03:43.520><c> old</c><01:03:43.839><c> like</c><01:03:44.000><c> in</c><01:03:44.240><c> this</c>

the one thing that's old like in this card<01:03:44.640><c> of</c><01:03:44.799><c> thing,</c> card of thing, >> the<01:03:45.680><c> the</c><01:03:46.000><c> large</c><01:03:46.319><c> funds,</c><01:03:46.960><c> the</c><01:03:47.200><c> largest</c><01:03:47.599><c> funds,</c> >> the the large funds, the largest funds, um<01:03:48.559><c> this</c><01:03:48.799><c> was</c><01:03:48.960><c> like</c><01:03:49.039><c> the</c><01:03:49.200><c> one</c><01:03:49.440><c> and</c><01:03:49.599><c> only</c><01:03:50.079><c> board</c>

um this was like the one and only board I<01:03:50.559><c> was</c><01:03:50.640><c> ever</c><01:03:50.799><c> on</c><01:03:50.960><c> with</c><01:03:51.119><c> John</c><01:03:51.359><c> Door,</c><01:03:52.240><c> when</c><01:03:52.480><c> they</c> I was ever on with John Door, when they when<01:03:53.039><c> they</c><01:03:53.280><c> want</c><01:03:53.359><c> to</c><01:03:53.599><c> really</c><01:03:53.760><c> get</c><01:03:54.000><c> ownership,</c> when they want to really get ownership, if<01:03:54.799><c> they</c><01:03:54.960><c> have</c><01:03:55.039><c> the</c><01:03:55.280><c> money,</c><01:03:55.680><c> they're</c><01:03:55.920><c> not</c>

if they have the money, they're not they'll<01:03:56.799><c> do</c><01:03:56.960><c> it.</c><01:03:57.200><c> they'll</c><01:03:57.520><c> do</c><01:03:57.920><c> and</c><01:03:58.160><c> in</c><01:03:58.319><c> the</c><01:03:58.400><c> old</c> they'll do it. they'll do and in the old days<01:03:58.799><c> it</c><01:03:58.960><c> was</c><01:03:59.119><c> we'll</c><01:03:59.280><c> do</c><01:03:59.359><c> the</c><01:03:59.520><c> seed</c><01:03:59.760><c> and</c><01:03:59.839><c> the</c><01:04:00.000><c> A</c>

days it was we'll do the seed and the A at<01:04:00.319><c> the</c><01:04:00.480><c> same</c><01:04:00.640><c> time</c><01:04:00.880><c> that's</c><01:04:01.039><c> how</c><01:04:01.200><c> we'll</c><01:04:01.359><c> get</c> at the same time that's how we'll get our<01:04:01.760><c> 20%</c><01:04:02.480><c> right</c><01:04:03.200><c> and</c><01:04:03.440><c> so</c><01:04:03.680><c> it's</c><01:04:04.000><c> the</c><01:04:04.240><c> same</c><01:04:04.400><c> today</c> our 20% right and so it's the same today

if<01:04:04.960><c> you</c><01:04:05.440><c> it's</c><01:04:05.680><c> not</c><01:04:05.839><c> like</c><01:04:06.000><c> you</c><01:04:06.160><c> can</c><01:04:06.319><c> raise</c><01:04:06.480><c> a</c> if you it's not like you can raise a hund00<01:04:06.880><c> million</c><01:04:07.280><c> seed</c><01:04:07.520><c> if</c><01:04:07.680><c> you</c><01:04:07.839><c> have</c><01:04:08.000><c> nothing</c> hund00 million seed if you have nothing you<01:04:08.559><c> may</c><01:04:08.720><c> not</c><01:04:08.880><c> need</c><01:04:09.039><c> revenue</c><01:04:09.440><c> but</c><01:04:09.680><c> if</c><01:04:09.839><c> you</c><01:04:09.920><c> see</c>

you may not need revenue but if you see an<01:04:10.240><c> S</c><01:04:10.400><c> tier</c><01:04:10.799><c> team</c><01:04:11.599><c> and</c><01:04:11.839><c> it's</c><01:04:12.079><c> in</c><01:04:12.240><c> the</c><01:04:12.400><c> right</c> an S tier team and it's in the right space<01:04:13.280><c> and</c><01:04:13.520><c> you</c><01:04:13.680><c> want</c><01:04:13.839><c> to</c><01:04:14.000><c> hit</c><01:04:14.160><c> your</c><01:04:14.400><c> number</c> space and you want to hit your number

you're<01:04:14.960><c> 20%</c><01:04:15.440><c> ownership</c><01:04:15.839><c> and</c><01:04:16.079><c> your</c><01:04:16.240><c> fund</c><01:04:16.480><c> is</c><01:04:16.640><c> in</c> you're 20% ownership and your fund is in billions<01:04:17.280><c> the</c><01:04:17.440><c> math</c><01:04:17.680><c> just</c><01:04:17.839><c> makes</c><01:04:18.079><c> sense</c><01:04:18.400><c> it's</c> billions the math just makes sense it's a<01:04:18.799><c> bet</c><01:04:19.599><c> it's</c><01:04:19.920><c> just</c><01:04:20.079><c> a</c><01:04:20.240><c> bet</c><01:04:20.559><c> and</c><01:04:21.680><c> this</c><01:04:21.920><c> has</c><01:04:22.079><c> been</c>

a bet it's just a bet and this has been true<01:04:22.559><c> like</c><01:04:23.119><c> since</c><01:04:23.440><c> I</c><01:04:23.680><c> started</c><01:04:23.920><c> investing</c><01:04:25.200><c> off</c> true like since I started investing off that's<01:04:25.920><c> even</c><01:04:26.160><c> that</c><01:04:26.400><c> happens</c><01:04:26.720><c> like</c><01:04:27.119><c> all</c><01:04:27.359><c> the</c> that's even that happens like all the top<01:04:27.680><c> YC</c><01:04:28.160><c> companies</c><01:04:28.559><c> like</c><01:04:28.799><c> okay</c><01:04:29.039><c> sell</c><01:04:29.520><c> only</c>

top YC companies like okay sell only sell<01:04:30.000><c> 6%</c><01:04:30.559><c> only</c><01:04:30.799><c> sell</c><01:04:30.960><c> 8%.</c><01:04:31.760><c> But</c><01:04:31.920><c> if</c><01:04:32.079><c> someone</c> sell 6% only sell 8%. But if someone wants<01:04:32.480><c> to</c><01:04:32.559><c> come</c><01:04:32.640><c> in</c><01:04:32.799><c> and</c><01:04:32.960><c> do</c><01:04:33.039><c> two</c><01:04:33.200><c> and</c><01:04:33.280><c> a</c><01:04:33.440><c> half</c> wants to come in and do two and a half

rounds,<01:04:34.000><c> then</c><01:04:34.319><c> you</c><01:04:34.400><c> know,</c><01:04:34.559><c> then</c><01:04:34.720><c> you</c><01:04:34.880><c> can</c><01:04:34.960><c> sell</c> rounds, then you know, then you can sell it<01:04:35.280><c> to</c><01:04:35.440><c> to</c><01:04:35.520><c> to</c><01:04:35.920><c> Mark</c><01:04:36.160><c> and</c><01:04:36.400><c> friends,</c><01:04:36.720><c> right?</c> it to to to Mark and friends, right? That's<01:04:37.119><c> how</c><01:04:37.280><c> you</c><01:04:37.440><c> get</c><01:04:37.839><c> the</c><01:04:38.079><c> big</c><01:04:38.319><c> ownership</c><01:04:38.640><c> out</c>

That's how you get the big ownership out of<01:04:38.960><c> YC</c><01:04:39.280><c> is</c><01:04:39.440><c> you</c><01:04:39.520><c> do</c><01:04:39.680><c> two</c><01:04:39.839><c> rounds,</c><01:04:40.559><c> right?</c><01:04:40.799><c> And</c> of YC is you do two rounds, right? And it's<01:04:41.280><c> not</c><01:04:41.520><c> new.</c><01:04:42.400><c> It's</c><01:04:42.559><c> just</c><01:04:42.640><c> the</c><01:04:42.880><c> out</c><01:04:43.280><c> like</c><01:04:43.520><c> the</c> it's not new. It's just the out like the

the<01:04:44.400><c> outcomes</c><01:04:45.200><c> have</c><01:04:45.520><c> changed</c><01:04:45.760><c> it.</c><01:04:46.079><c> But</c><01:04:46.160><c> I</c> the outcomes have changed it. But I don't<01:04:46.480><c> know</c><01:04:46.559><c> that</c><01:04:46.720><c> it's</c><01:04:47.200><c> capital</c><01:04:47.599><c> needs</c><01:04:48.160><c> is</c> don't know that it's capital needs is the<01:04:48.720><c> main</c><01:04:49.119><c> driver.</c><01:04:49.520><c> I</c><01:04:49.760><c> think</c><01:04:49.839><c> it's</c><01:04:50.079><c> part</c><01:04:50.240><c> of</c>

the main driver. I think it's part of it,<01:04:50.559><c> but</c><01:04:50.880><c> we</c><01:04:51.039><c> don't</c><01:04:51.200><c> we</c><01:04:51.520><c> don't</c><01:04:51.680><c> raise</c><01:04:51.920><c> it.</c><01:04:52.160><c> We</c> it, but we don't we don't raise it. We don't<01:04:52.400><c> give</c><01:04:52.640><c> startups</c><01:04:53.520><c> mass</c><01:04:53.839><c> evaluations</c> don't give startups mass evaluations just<01:04:54.960><c> because</c><01:04:55.200><c> they</c><01:04:55.440><c> need</c><01:04:55.599><c> the</c><01:04:55.839><c> capital.</c>

just because they need the capital. Though<01:04:56.400><c> sometimes</c><01:04:56.720><c> you</c><01:04:56.880><c> have</c><01:04:57.039><c> to</c><01:04:57.200><c> to</c><01:04:57.440><c> solve</c> Though sometimes you have to to solve it,<01:04:57.920><c> right?</c><01:04:58.400><c> I</c><01:04:58.640><c> did</c><01:04:58.720><c> this</c><01:04:58.880><c> in</c><01:04:59.039><c> my</c><01:04:59.200><c> first</c> it, right? I did this in my first startup.<01:04:59.680><c> I</c><01:04:59.920><c> needed</c><01:05:00.160><c> 10</c><01:05:00.400><c> million</c><01:05:00.559><c> to</c><01:05:00.720><c> start</c>

startup. I needed 10 million to start and<01:05:00.960><c> I</c><01:05:01.119><c> got</c><01:05:01.200><c> to</c><01:05:01.280><c> do</c><01:05:01.359><c> it</c><01:05:01.440><c> at</c><01:05:01.599><c> three</c><01:05:01.839><c> pre.</c><01:05:02.160><c> It</c><01:05:02.240><c> was</c> and I got to do it at three pre. It was great.<01:05:03.520><c> It</c><01:05:03.760><c> was</c><01:05:04.000><c> great.</c><01:05:04.720><c> It</c><01:05:04.960><c> was</c><01:05:05.200><c> great.</c><01:05:06.000><c> Thank</c>

great. It was great. It was great. Thank you<01:05:06.319><c> very</c><01:05:06.640><c> I</c><01:05:06.799><c> hated</c><01:05:07.119><c> VCs</c><01:05:07.599><c> for</c><01:05:07.760><c> so</c><01:05:08.000><c> many</c><01:05:08.160><c> years</c> you very I hated VCs for so many years after<01:05:08.880><c> when</c><01:05:09.039><c> I</c><01:05:09.200><c> gave</c><01:05:09.359><c> them</c><01:05:09.440><c> a</c><01:05:09.599><c> 5</c><01:05:09.760><c> and</c><01:05:09.839><c> a</c><01:05:09.920><c> halfx</c>

after when I gave them a 5 and a halfx return<01:05:10.640><c> in</c><01:05:10.880><c> 12</c><01:05:11.039><c> months</c><01:05:11.200><c> and</c><01:05:11.440><c> no</c><01:05:11.599><c> one</c><01:05:11.760><c> showed</c><01:05:11.920><c> up</c> return in 12 months and no one showed up to<01:05:12.160><c> the</c><01:05:12.240><c> closing</c><01:05:12.559><c> dinner</c><01:05:12.799><c> and</c><01:05:12.960><c> they</c><01:05:13.039><c> they</c> to the closing dinner and they they bought<01:05:13.520><c> 80%</c><01:05:13.920><c> of</c><01:05:14.079><c> my</c><01:05:14.240><c> seed.</c><01:05:14.640><c> Thank</c><01:05:14.720><c> you</c><01:05:14.880><c> very</c>

bought 80% of my seed. Thank you very much.<01:05:15.520><c> But</c><01:05:15.760><c> I</c><01:05:15.920><c> I</c><01:05:16.240><c> think</c><01:05:16.319><c> it's</c><01:05:16.640><c> just</c><01:05:16.960><c> to</c><01:05:17.520><c> to</c><01:05:17.680><c> hit</c> much. But I I think it's just to to hit my<01:05:18.000><c> target</c><01:05:18.240><c> when</c><01:05:18.480><c> the</c><01:05:18.640><c> outcomes</c><01:05:18.960><c> can</c><01:05:19.119><c> be</c><01:05:19.200><c> huge.</c> my target when the outcomes can be huge.

I<01:05:19.599><c> don't</c><01:05:19.680><c> think</c><01:05:19.760><c> it's</c><01:05:19.920><c> more</c><01:05:20.160><c> complicated.</c><01:05:20.880><c> And</c> I don't think it's more complicated. And if<01:05:21.200><c> you</c><01:05:21.359><c> have</c><01:05:21.440><c> a</c><01:05:21.680><c> three</c><01:05:21.920><c> four</c><01:05:22.160><c> multi-billion</c> if you have a three four multi-billion dollar<01:05:22.960><c> fund,</c><01:05:23.200><c> the</c><01:05:23.359><c> math</c><01:05:23.599><c> pencils</c><01:05:24.000><c> out.</c>

dollar fund, the math pencils out. >> I<01:05:24.805><c> [snorts]</c><01:05:24.880><c> think</c><01:05:24.960><c> it's</c><01:05:25.200><c> smart</c><01:05:25.359><c> there</c><01:05:25.599><c> to</c><01:05:25.680><c> say</c> >> I [snorts] think it's smart there to say like<01:05:26.000><c> it's</c><01:05:26.160><c> kind</c><01:05:26.319><c> of</c><01:05:26.400><c> the</c><01:05:26.720><c> combining</c><01:05:27.200><c> multiple</c> like it's kind of the combining multiple rounds<01:05:27.920><c> into</c><01:05:28.160><c> one.</c><01:05:28.319><c> And</c><01:05:28.559><c> I</c><01:05:28.640><c> think</c><01:05:28.720><c> the</c><01:05:28.880><c> other</c>

rounds into one. And I think the other way<01:05:29.119><c> to</c><01:05:29.280><c> look</c><01:05:29.359><c> at</c><01:05:29.520><c> that</c><01:05:29.680><c> is</c><01:05:29.839><c> the</c><01:05:30.000><c> rise</c><01:05:30.160><c> of</c> way to look at that is the rise of tranch<01:05:30.799><c> rounds</c><01:05:31.359><c> where</c><01:05:31.599><c> you</c><01:05:31.839><c> see</c><01:05:32.880><c> have</c><01:05:33.039><c> often</c> tranch rounds where you see have often been<01:05:33.520><c> cited</c><01:05:33.839><c> as</c><01:05:34.079><c> doing</c><01:05:34.319><c> one</c><01:05:34.480><c> at</c><01:05:34.799><c> 50</c><01:05:35.359><c> and</c><01:05:35.520><c> then</c>

been cited as doing one at 50 and then the<01:05:35.839><c> majority</c><01:05:36.240><c> come</c><01:05:36.400><c> in</c><01:05:36.640><c> at</c><01:05:36.880><c> 500</c><01:05:37.599><c> and</c><01:05:37.839><c> it's</c> the majority come in at 500 and it's >> but<01:05:38.480><c> even</c><01:05:38.640><c> that</c><01:05:38.799><c> isn't</c><01:05:39.039><c> new.</c><01:05:39.359><c> It's</c><01:05:39.520><c> just</c> >> but even that isn't new. It's just exacerbated<01:05:40.480><c> by</c><01:05:40.640><c> AI.</c><01:05:41.039><c> It's</c><01:05:41.280><c> not</c><01:05:41.440><c> brand</c><01:05:41.599><c> new.</c>

exacerbated by AI. It's not brand new. Like<01:05:42.079><c> these</c><01:05:42.319><c> things</c><01:05:42.480><c> are</c><01:05:42.640><c> not</c><01:05:42.799><c> brand</c><01:05:42.960><c> new,</c> Like these things are not brand new, right?<01:05:43.599><c> They've</c><01:05:43.839><c> just</c><01:05:44.000><c> become</c><01:05:44.240><c> normal</c><01:05:44.559><c> is</c> right? They've just become normal is what's<01:05:45.039><c> changed</c><01:05:45.359><c> instead</c><01:05:45.599><c> of</c><01:05:46.079><c> for</c><01:05:46.240><c> for</c>

what's changed instead of for for potential<01:05:47.359><c> outliers.</c><01:05:48.160><c> This</c><01:05:48.400><c> behavior</c><01:05:48.799><c> has</c> potential outliers. This behavior has become<01:05:49.200><c> normal</c><01:05:49.520><c> for</c><01:05:49.760><c> potential</c><01:05:50.079><c> outliers</c><01:05:50.799><c> and</c> become normal for potential outliers and [snorts]<01:05:51.039><c> there's</c><01:05:51.200><c> just</c><01:05:51.359><c> more</c><01:05:51.599><c> potential</c>

[snorts] there's just more potential outliers. >> Yeah.<01:05:53.200><c> is</c><01:05:53.359><c> just</c><01:05:53.599><c> keying</c><01:05:54.000><c> off</c><01:05:54.160><c> a</c><01:05:54.319><c> comment</c><01:05:54.559><c> you</c> >> Yeah. is just keying off a comment you made<01:05:54.960><c> is</c><01:05:55.200><c> that</c><01:05:55.359><c> you</c><01:05:55.599><c> don't</c><01:05:55.760><c> have</c><01:05:55.839><c> to</c><01:05:56.000><c> give</c><01:05:56.160><c> them</c> made is that you don't have to give them

a<01:05:56.400><c> high</c><01:05:56.640><c> price</c><01:05:56.880><c> just</c><01:05:57.039><c> cuz</c><01:05:57.200><c> it</c><01:05:57.440><c> needs</c><01:05:57.599><c> a</c><01:05:57.760><c> lot</c><01:05:57.839><c> of</c> a high price just cuz it needs a lot of capital<01:05:58.480><c> and</c><01:05:58.640><c> that</c><01:05:58.799><c> was</c><01:05:58.880><c> actually</c><01:05:59.039><c> very</c><01:05:59.280><c> wise.</c> capital and that was actually very wise. I<01:05:59.839><c> was</c><01:05:59.920><c> reflecting</c><01:06:00.240><c> on</c><01:06:00.400><c> that</c><01:06:00.640><c> cuz</c><01:06:01.200><c> you</c><01:06:01.359><c> know</c><01:06:01.440><c> we</c>

I was reflecting on that cuz you know we used<01:06:01.760><c> to</c><01:06:01.839><c> do</c><01:06:02.319><c> two</c><01:06:02.559><c> decades</c><01:06:02.799><c> ago</c><01:06:03.039><c> a</c><01:06:03.119><c> fair</c><01:06:03.280><c> amount</c> used to do two decades ago a fair amount of<01:06:03.520><c> biotech</c><01:06:04.000><c> where</c><01:06:04.240><c> you</c><01:06:04.400><c> know</c><01:06:04.799><c> you</c><01:06:05.039><c> knew</c><01:06:05.200><c> going</c> of biotech where you know you knew going

in<01:06:05.520><c> it</c><01:06:05.680><c> would</c><01:06:05.839><c> take</c><01:06:05.920><c> a</c><01:06:06.000><c> h</c><01:06:06.079><c> 100red</c><01:06:06.319><c> million</c><01:06:06.720><c> but</c> in it would take a h 100red million but you're<01:06:07.119><c> exactly</c><01:06:07.440><c> right</c><01:06:07.680><c> what</c><01:06:07.920><c> would</c><01:06:08.079><c> happen</c> you're exactly right what would happen is<01:06:08.559><c> the</c><01:06:08.880><c> price</c><01:06:09.039><c> would</c><01:06:09.280><c> still</c><01:06:09.440><c> be</c><01:06:09.599><c> low</c><01:06:09.760><c> which</c>

is the price would still be low which was<01:06:10.079><c> tough</c><01:06:10.240><c> on</c><01:06:10.400><c> the</c><01:06:10.559><c> entrepreneur</c><01:06:11.440><c> cuz</c><01:06:11.680><c> the</c> was tough on the entrepreneur cuz the investors<01:06:12.400><c> would</c><01:06:12.640><c> frequently</c><01:06:13.119><c> commit</c><01:06:13.440><c> up</c> investors would frequently commit up front<01:06:13.839><c> and</c><01:06:14.000><c> then</c><01:06:14.160><c> taunch</c><01:06:14.559><c> it</c><01:06:14.880><c> so</c><01:06:15.119><c> they're</c>

front and then taunch it so they're signing<01:06:15.599><c> up</c><01:06:15.760><c> for</c><01:06:15.920><c> the</c><01:06:16.079><c> 100</c><01:06:16.480><c> the</c><01:06:16.640><c> price</c><01:06:16.799><c> is</c><01:06:17.039><c> low</c> signing up for the 100 the price is low maybe<01:06:17.599><c> stepped</c><01:06:17.920><c> up</c><01:06:18.079><c> for</c><01:06:18.160><c> the</c><01:06:18.319><c> later</c><01:06:18.559><c> one</c> maybe stepped up for the later one because<01:06:19.280><c> they</c><01:06:19.520><c> were</c><01:06:19.680><c> saying</c><01:06:19.920><c> I'm</c><01:06:20.160><c> taking</c><01:06:20.319><c> the</c>

because they were saying I'm taking the risk<01:06:20.960><c> so</c><01:06:21.680><c> I</c><01:06:22.720><c> have</c><01:06:22.880><c> to</c><01:06:23.039><c> get</c><01:06:23.119><c> the</c><01:06:23.280><c> ownership</c><01:06:23.920><c> you</c> risk so I have to get the ownership you what's<01:06:24.559><c> happening</c><01:06:24.799><c> in</c><01:06:24.960><c> some</c><01:06:25.119><c> of</c><01:06:25.200><c> these</c> what's happening in some of these neolabs<01:06:26.000><c> case</c><01:06:26.240><c> is</c><01:06:26.880><c> it's</c><01:06:27.119><c> a</c><01:06:27.280><c> combination</c><01:06:27.680><c> of</c>

neolabs case is it's a combination of the<01:06:28.960><c> capital</c><01:06:29.280><c> need</c><01:06:29.520><c> is</c><01:06:29.680><c> there</c><01:06:30.240><c> but</c><01:06:30.480><c> because</c> the capital need is there but because the<01:06:30.960><c> demand</c><01:06:31.280><c> from</c><01:06:31.440><c> the</c><01:06:31.599><c> big</c><01:06:31.760><c> funds</c><01:06:32.079><c> is</c><01:06:32.240><c> greater</c> the demand from the big funds is greater than<01:06:32.640><c> the</c><01:06:32.880><c> supply</c><01:06:33.280><c> of</c><01:06:33.599><c> entrepreneurs</c><01:06:34.319><c> and</c>

than the supply of entrepreneurs and because<01:06:34.799><c> the</c><01:06:35.039><c> perception</c><01:06:36.319><c> rightly</c><01:06:36.640><c> or</c><01:06:36.799><c> not</c><01:06:36.960><c> is</c> because the perception rightly or not is that<01:06:37.359><c> the</c><01:06:37.520><c> outcomes</c><01:06:37.839><c> are</c><01:06:38.000><c> so</c><01:06:38.240><c> huge</c><01:06:38.960><c> the</c><01:06:39.200><c> supply</c> that the outcomes are so huge the supply demand<01:06:39.920><c> equation</c><01:06:40.480><c> allows</c><01:06:40.880><c> the</c><01:06:41.200><c> entrepreneur</c>

demand equation allows the entrepreneur to<01:06:42.720><c> just</c><01:06:42.960><c> get</c><01:06:43.119><c> a</c><01:06:43.280><c> valuation</c><01:06:43.680><c> that</c><01:06:44.000><c> you</c><01:06:44.160><c> know</c><01:06:44.400><c> 10</c> to just get a valuation that you know 10 years<01:06:44.799><c> ago</c><01:06:45.039><c> if</c><01:06:45.280><c> you</c><01:06:45.359><c> were</c><01:06:45.520><c> funding</c><01:06:45.760><c> a</c><01:06:45.920><c> biotech</c> years ago if you were funding a biotech

or<01:06:46.480><c> a</c><01:06:46.640><c> semiconductor</c><01:06:47.280><c> company</c><01:06:47.520><c> where</c><01:06:47.760><c> the</c> or a semiconductor company where the capital<01:06:48.400><c> lead</c><01:06:48.559><c> was</c><01:06:48.880><c> 100</c><01:06:49.119><c> million</c><01:06:49.680><c> you</c><01:06:49.920><c> you're</c> capital lead was 100 million you you're right<01:06:50.400><c> you</c><01:06:50.559><c> would</c><01:06:50.720><c> be</c><01:06:50.880><c> getting</c><01:06:51.039><c> a</c><01:06:51.280><c> 20</c><01:06:51.599><c> on</c><01:06:51.920><c> 20</c><01:06:52.160><c> in</c>

right you would be getting a 20 on 20 in a<01:06:52.559><c> tranched</c><01:06:52.960><c> agreement</c><01:06:53.280><c> for</c><01:06:53.520><c> 80</c><01:06:53.760><c> million</c><01:06:54.079><c> more</c> a tranched agreement for 80 million more and<01:06:54.640><c> you'd</c><01:06:54.880><c> be</c><01:06:55.039><c> down</c><01:06:55.200><c> to</c><01:06:55.440><c> 7</c><01:06:55.760><c> 10%</c><01:06:56.240><c> ownership</c><01:06:56.720><c> by</c> and you'd be down to 7 10% ownership by the<01:06:56.960><c> time</c><01:06:57.039><c> you</c><01:06:57.280><c> did</c><01:06:57.440><c> your</c><01:06:57.520><c> big</c><01:06:57.680><c> round</c><01:06:58.480><c> So</c><01:06:58.640><c> I</c><01:06:58.799><c> I</c><01:06:58.799><c> I</c>

the time you did your big round So I I I I<01:06:59.039><c> I</c><01:06:59.359><c> think</c><01:06:59.520><c> you're</c><01:06:59.680><c> right.</c><01:06:59.839><c> It's</c><01:07:00.000><c> that</c><01:07:00.480><c> at</c> I I think you're right. It's that at least<01:07:00.880><c> a</c><01:07:01.119><c> good</c><01:07:01.280><c> portion</c><01:07:01.599><c> of</c><01:07:01.760><c> this</c><01:07:02.240><c> technology</c> least a good portion of this technology is<01:07:02.960><c> now</c><01:07:03.200><c> doing</c><01:07:03.440><c> capital</c><01:07:03.839><c> intensive</c><01:07:04.240><c> deals</c>

is now doing capital intensive deals again<01:07:05.200><c> and</c><01:07:05.440><c> they're</c><01:07:05.680><c> doing</c><01:07:05.920><c> it</c><01:07:06.079><c> on</c><01:07:06.319><c> terms</c><01:07:07.200><c> that</c> again and they're doing it on terms that are<01:07:07.599><c> way</c><01:07:07.760><c> more</c><01:07:08.000><c> favorable</c><01:07:08.319><c> to</c><01:07:08.480><c> the</c> are way more favorable to the entrepreneur<01:07:09.280><c> than</c><01:07:09.440><c> you</c><01:07:09.599><c> would</c><01:07:09.680><c> see</c><01:07:09.839><c> it</c><01:07:10.000><c> in</c>

entrepreneur than you would see it in the<01:07:10.240><c> past</c><01:07:10.880><c> and</c><01:07:11.039><c> they're</c><01:07:11.280><c> doing</c><01:07:11.440><c> that</c><01:07:11.680><c> for</c><01:07:11.920><c> one</c> the past and they're doing that for one reason.<01:07:12.480><c> They</c><01:07:12.720><c> have</c><01:07:12.880><c> the</c><01:07:13.119><c> money</c><01:07:13.440><c> and</c><01:07:13.680><c> there's</c> reason. They have the money and there's a<01:07:14.160><c> perception</c><01:07:14.480><c> that</c><01:07:14.720><c> the</c><01:07:14.880><c> existing</c><01:07:15.200><c> stuff</c><01:07:15.520><c> has</c>

a perception that the existing stuff has worked<01:07:15.920><c> well</c><01:07:16.160><c> enough</c><01:07:16.319><c> to</c><01:07:16.559><c> be</c><01:07:16.640><c> worth</c><01:07:16.799><c> the</c><01:07:16.960><c> risk.</c> worked well enough to be worth the risk. I<01:07:17.520><c> mean</c><01:07:17.599><c> we'll</c><01:07:17.839><c> see.</c> I mean we'll see. >> I'm<01:07:18.799><c> not</c><01:07:18.880><c> sure</c><01:07:19.039><c> if</c><01:07:19.200><c> you</c><01:07:19.280><c> saw</c><01:07:19.599><c> but</c><01:07:20.160><c> very</c><01:07:20.480><c> hot</c>

>> I'm not sure if you saw but very hot round<01:07:21.280><c> got</c><01:07:21.520><c> announced</c><01:07:21.839><c> today</c><01:07:22.079><c> which</c><01:07:22.319><c> was</c><01:07:22.400><c> Chai</c> round got announced today which was Chai Discovery<01:07:23.680><c> 400</c><01:07:24.079><c> million</c><01:07:24.319><c> at</c><01:07:24.559><c> a</c><01:07:24.720><c> $3.8</c><01:07:25.119><c> $8</c> Discovery 400 million at a $3.8 $8 billion<01:07:26.000><c> valuation</c><01:07:26.960><c> led</c><01:07:27.200><c> by</c><01:07:27.520><c> index,</c><01:07:28.480><c> Kleiner,</c>

billion valuation led by index, Kleiner, Sequoia,<01:07:30.400><c> Dimension.</c><01:07:31.680><c> Um,</c> Sequoia, Dimension. Um, I<01:07:33.359><c> mean,</c><01:07:33.520><c> listen,</c><01:07:34.000><c> in</c><01:07:34.160><c> terms</c><01:07:34.319><c> of</c><01:07:34.480><c> dilution,</c> I mean, listen, in terms of dilution, good<01:07:35.200><c> round</c><01:07:35.440><c> for</c><01:07:35.599><c> founders</c><01:07:36.000><c> there.</c> good round for founders there. >> Great. >> Yeah.<01:07:37.920><c> Not</c><01:07:38.160><c> too</c><01:07:38.319><c> late</c><01:07:38.480><c> for</c><01:07:38.640><c> 10</c><01:07:38.799><c> from</c><01:07:39.039><c> 20</c><01:07:39.280><c> VC.</c>

>> Yeah. Not too late for 10 from 20 VC. There's<01:07:40.160><c> You</c><01:07:40.240><c> can</c><01:07:40.319><c> always</c><01:07:40.480><c> squeeze</c><01:07:40.799><c> that</c><01:07:40.880><c> one</c> There's You can always squeeze that one in<01:07:41.280><c> on</c><01:07:41.440><c> top.</c> in on top. >> No<01:07:43.359><c> comment.</c><01:07:44.321><c> [laughter]</c> >> No comment. [laughter] >> Not<01:07:45.839><c> too</c><01:07:46.079><c> late.</c><01:07:46.799><c> Not</c><01:07:47.039><c> too</c><01:07:47.200><c> late.</c>

>> Not too late. Not too late. >> No<01:07:48.240><c> comment.</c> >> No comment. >> Not<01:07:48.720><c> too</c><01:07:48.880><c> late.</c> >> Not too late. >> I<01:07:49.440><c> mean,</c><01:07:49.599><c> genuine</c><01:07:50.079><c> comment</c><01:07:50.400><c> here</c><01:07:50.559><c> that</c> >> I mean, genuine comment here that category<01:07:52.160><c> and</c><01:07:52.559><c> avoid</c><01:07:52.880><c> the</c><01:07:53.119><c> specifics.</c><01:07:53.680><c> It's</c>

category and avoid the specifics. It's just<01:07:54.400><c> on</c><01:07:54.640><c> one,</c><01:07:54.799><c> it's</c><01:07:55.119><c> super</c><01:07:55.520><c> interesting,</c><01:07:56.319><c> but</c> just on one, it's super interesting, but it<01:07:56.799><c> will</c><01:07:56.960><c> be</c><01:07:57.119><c> interesting</c><01:07:57.520><c> to</c><01:07:57.760><c> see</c><01:07:58.480><c> how</c><01:07:58.720><c> much</c> it will be interesting to see how much those<01:07:59.359><c> companies</c><01:07:59.920><c> end</c><01:08:00.160><c> up</c><01:08:00.319><c> being</c><01:08:00.640><c> like</c><01:08:01.119><c> an</c><01:08:01.359><c> LLM</c>

those companies end up being like an LLM and<01:08:02.079><c> a</c><01:08:02.240><c> language</c><01:08:02.640><c> model</c><01:08:03.680><c> and</c><01:08:03.920><c> how</c><01:08:04.160><c> much</c><01:08:04.240><c> they</c> and a language model and how much they end<01:08:04.640><c> up</c><01:08:04.799><c> being</c><01:08:04.960><c> like</c><01:08:05.039><c> a</c><01:08:05.200><c> biotech</c><01:08:05.839><c> company,</c> end up being like a biotech company, which<01:08:06.400><c> is</c><01:08:06.559><c> a</c><01:08:06.720><c> very</c><01:08:06.880><c> different</c><01:08:07.200><c> trajectory.</c><01:08:07.839><c> We</c>

which is a very different trajectory. We can<01:08:08.160><c> revisit</c><01:08:08.559><c> that</c><01:08:08.799><c> another</c><01:08:09.200><c> day.</c><01:08:10.000><c> Do</c> can revisit that another day. Do >> you<01:08:10.240><c> know</c><01:08:10.319><c> what's</c><01:08:10.480><c> really</c><01:08:10.880><c> Do</c><01:08:10.960><c> you</c><01:08:11.039><c> know</c><01:08:11.200><c> I</c> >> you know what's really Do you know I think<01:08:11.359><c> it's</c><01:08:11.520><c> actually</c><01:08:11.680><c> really</c><01:08:11.920><c> interesting</c>

think it's actually really interesting is<01:08:12.240><c> like</c><01:08:12.480><c> blast</c><01:08:12.960><c> radius</c><01:08:14.000><c> from</c><01:08:14.319><c> rounds.</c><01:08:15.119><c> And</c> is like blast radius from rounds. And what<01:08:15.440><c> I</c><01:08:15.599><c> mean</c><01:08:15.760><c> by</c><01:08:15.920><c> that</c><01:08:16.080><c> is</c><01:08:16.400><c> isomorphic</c><01:08:17.199><c> was</c> what I mean by that is isomorphic was incredibly<01:08:18.159><c> oversubscribed</c><01:08:19.040><c> to</c><01:08:19.279><c> the</c><01:08:19.440><c> tune</c><01:08:19.679><c> of</c>

incredibly oversubscribed to the tune of 8<01:08:19.920><c> to</c><01:08:20.080><c> 10x.</c><01:08:21.040><c> the</c><01:08:21.359><c> majority</c><01:08:21.759><c> of</c><01:08:21.920><c> people</c><01:08:22.159><c> did</c><01:08:22.400><c> not</c> 8 to 10x. the majority of people did not get<01:08:22.880><c> anything</c><01:08:23.279><c> at</c><01:08:23.520><c> all</c><01:08:23.920><c> when</c><01:08:24.239><c> they</c><01:08:24.400><c> wanted</c> get anything at all when they wanted huge<01:08:25.040><c> amounts.</c><01:08:26.000><c> That</c><01:08:26.319><c> then</c><01:08:26.960><c> causes</c><01:08:27.359><c> a</c><01:08:27.600><c> blast</c>

huge amounts. That then causes a blast radius<01:08:28.480><c> where</c><01:08:28.960><c> I'm</c><01:08:29.279><c> not</c><01:08:29.440><c> saying</c><01:08:29.679><c> it's</c><01:08:29.920><c> second</c> radius where I'm not saying it's second best<01:08:30.480><c> by</c><01:08:30.719><c> any</c><01:08:30.960><c> means,</c><01:08:31.600><c> but</c><01:08:31.920><c> there's</c><01:08:32.239><c> a</c><01:08:32.480><c> lot</c><01:08:32.640><c> of</c> best by any means, but there's a lot of interest<01:08:33.040><c> in</c><01:08:33.359><c> Chai</c><01:08:34.000><c> and</c><01:08:34.159><c> then</c><01:08:34.319><c> it</c><01:08:34.480><c> means</c>

interest in Chai and then it means there's<01:08:34.880><c> a</c><01:08:35.040><c> lot</c><01:08:35.120><c> of</c><01:08:35.199><c> interest</c><01:08:35.440><c> in</c><01:08:35.679><c> another</c> there's a lot of interest in another company<01:08:36.319><c> latent</c><01:08:36.719><c> labs</c><01:08:37.040><c> in</c><01:08:37.279><c> London</c><01:08:37.920><c> and</c><01:08:38.159><c> it</c><01:08:39.600><c> it</c> company latent labs in London and it it is<01:08:40.000><c> a</c><01:08:40.159><c> blast</c><01:08:40.480><c> radius</c><01:08:40.880><c> from</c><01:08:41.040><c> a</c><01:08:41.199><c> very</c><01:08:41.520><c> hot</c><01:08:41.759><c> deal</c>

is a blast radius from a very hot deal which<01:08:42.239><c> was</c><01:08:42.400><c> originally</c><01:08:42.880><c> isomorphic.</c> which was originally isomorphic. >> It's<01:08:44.319><c> one</c><01:08:44.480><c> reason</c><01:08:44.719><c> honestly</c><01:08:45.120><c> sometimes</c><01:08:45.520><c> to</c> >> It's one reason honestly sometimes to not<01:08:45.839><c> announce</c><01:08:46.080><c> a</c><01:08:46.239><c> deal</c><01:08:46.400><c> at</c><01:08:46.560><c> all.</c> not announce a deal at all.

>> I<01:08:48.560><c> I</c><01:08:48.799><c> I've</c><01:08:49.040><c> see</c><01:08:49.199><c> this</c><01:08:49.279><c> a</c><01:08:49.440><c> lot.</c><01:08:49.600><c> I</c><01:08:49.839><c> mean,</c><01:08:50.000><c> I</c><01:08:50.159><c> just</c> >> I I I've see this a lot. I mean, I just just<01:08:50.640><c> don't</c><01:08:50.960><c> do</c><01:08:51.120><c> it.</c><01:08:51.359><c> I</c><01:08:51.600><c> think</c><01:08:51.679><c> there's</c><01:08:51.920><c> a</c><01:08:52.080><c> lot</c>

just don't do it. I think there's a lot of<01:08:52.319><c> reasons,</c><01:08:52.880><c> the</c><01:08:53.120><c> most</c><01:08:53.279><c> in</c><01:08:53.520><c> my</c><01:08:53.759><c> career</c><01:08:54.000><c> today,</c> of reasons, the most in my career today, there<01:08:54.560><c> are</c><01:08:54.640><c> the</c><01:08:54.799><c> most</c><01:08:55.040><c> reasons</c><01:08:55.759><c> to</c><01:08:56.080><c> not</c> there are the most reasons to not announce,<01:08:56.640><c> if</c><01:08:56.799><c> you</c><01:08:56.880><c> can</c><01:08:56.960><c> get</c><01:08:57.040><c> away</c><01:08:57.279><c> with</c><01:08:57.359><c> it,</c>

announce, if you can get away with it, to<01:08:57.759><c> not</c><01:08:57.920><c> announce</c><01:08:58.159><c> a</c><01:08:58.400><c> hot</c><01:08:58.640><c> round,</c> to not announce a hot round, right?<01:09:00.719><c> If</c><01:09:00.880><c> you've</c><01:09:01.120><c> already</c><01:09:01.279><c> got</c><01:09:01.520><c> enough,</c><01:09:02.000><c> if</c> right? If you've already got enough, if you've<01:09:02.400><c> already</c><01:09:02.560><c> got</c><01:09:02.799><c> enough</c><01:09:03.120><c> going</c><01:09:03.279><c> on</c><01:09:03.440><c> to</c>

you've already got enough going on to attract<01:09:04.000><c> talent,</c><01:09:04.560><c> right,</c><01:09:04.719><c> for</c><01:09:04.960><c> recruiting,</c> attract talent, right, for recruiting, um,<01:09:06.799><c> especially</c><01:09:07.199><c> if</c><01:09:07.440><c> you're</c><01:09:07.600><c> not</c><01:09:07.759><c> selling</c> um, especially if you're not selling directly<01:09:08.400><c> to</c><01:09:08.560><c> tech</c><01:09:08.799><c> buyers,</c><01:09:09.279><c> right,</c><01:09:09.440><c> to</c><01:09:09.600><c> the</c>

directly to tech buyers, right, to the ex<01:09:10.000><c> folks,</c><01:09:10.400><c> I</c><01:09:10.640><c> say</c><01:09:10.880><c> don't</c><01:09:11.040><c> announce</c><01:09:11.359><c> it,</c><01:09:11.600><c> man.</c> ex folks, I say don't announce it, man. >> Yeah,<01:09:12.239><c> it</c><01:09:12.400><c> will</c><01:09:12.560><c> be</c> >> Yeah, it will be >> brings<01:09:13.279><c> out</c><01:09:13.359><c> the</c><01:09:13.520><c> daggers,</c><01:09:14.319><c> funds</c><01:09:14.719><c> your</c>

>> brings out the daggers, funds your competitors,<01:09:15.920><c> creates</c><01:09:16.400><c> issues.</c><01:09:17.199><c> You</c><01:09:17.359><c> just</c> competitors, creates issues. You just you<01:09:17.839><c> just</c><01:09:18.000><c> become</c><01:09:18.239><c> a</c><01:09:18.480><c> target,</c><01:09:18.880><c> right?</c><01:09:19.120><c> And</c><01:09:19.279><c> so</c> you just become a target, right? And so that<01:09:19.679><c> press</c><01:09:19.839><c> release</c><01:09:20.080><c> better</c><01:09:20.400><c> be</c><01:09:20.560><c> worth</c><01:09:20.719><c> it</c>

that press release better be worth it because<01:09:21.279><c> it's</c><01:09:21.440><c> like</c><01:09:21.600><c> a</c><01:09:21.759><c> Dorito</c><01:09:22.239><c> or</c><01:09:22.480><c> a</c><01:09:22.719><c> Pringle.</c> because it's like a Dorito or a Pringle. It's<01:09:23.359><c> gone</c><01:09:23.600><c> the</c><01:09:23.839><c> next</c><01:09:24.000><c> day,</c><01:09:24.319><c> right?</c><01:09:24.880><c> Better</c> It's gone the next day, right? Better [snorts]<01:09:25.199><c> be</c><01:09:25.359><c> worth</c><01:09:25.520><c> it.</c><01:09:26.480><c> If</c><01:09:26.719><c> no</c><01:09:26.880><c> one's</c><01:09:27.040><c> heard</c>

[snorts] be worth it. If no one's heard of<01:09:27.359><c> you,</c><01:09:27.600><c> do</c><01:09:27.759><c> it.</c> of you, do it. >> It's<01:09:28.640><c> also</c><01:09:28.960><c> interesting.</c><01:09:29.600><c> Thrive</c><01:09:30.000><c> in</c><01:09:30.239><c> Chai.</c> >> It's also interesting. Thrive in Chai. I'm<01:09:31.040><c> like,</c><01:09:31.440><c> wait</c><01:09:31.679><c> a</c><01:09:31.759><c> minute.</c><01:09:32.560><c> Thought</c><01:09:32.799><c> you</c> I'm like, wait a minute. Thought you

just<01:09:33.040><c> led</c><01:09:33.359><c> isomorphic.</c> just led isomorphic. >> Different<01:09:34.719><c> partners,</c><01:09:35.199><c> Harry.</c><01:09:35.679><c> Different</c> >> Different partners, Harry. Different partners<01:09:36.880><c> and</c><01:09:37.040><c> we've</c><01:09:37.279><c> got</c><01:09:37.440><c> paper</c><01:09:37.759><c> walls</c><01:09:38.239><c> right</c> partners and we've got paper walls right right<01:09:38.799><c> between</c><01:09:39.120><c> them.</c><01:09:39.600><c> They're</c><01:09:39.839><c> thin.</c><01:09:40.560><c> We</c><01:09:40.799><c> can</c>

right between them. They're thin. We can hear<01:09:41.199><c> the</c><01:09:41.440><c> other</c><01:09:41.600><c> side,</c><01:09:41.920><c> but</c><01:09:42.159><c> but</c><01:09:42.239><c> but</c><01:09:42.640><c> there</c> hear the other side, but but but there it<01:09:43.199><c> is.</c><01:09:43.520><c> It</c><01:09:43.759><c> is</c><01:09:43.920><c> it</c><01:09:44.159><c> is</c><01:09:44.239><c> a</c><01:09:44.480><c> wall.</c><01:09:44.880><c> I</c><01:09:45.120><c> think</c><01:09:45.199><c> the</c>

it is. It is it is a wall. I think the overlap<01:09:45.920><c> in</c><01:09:46.080><c> terms</c><01:09:46.239><c> of</c><01:09:46.400><c> competitor</c><01:09:46.880><c> risk</c><01:09:47.120><c> is</c> overlap in terms of competitor risk is fairly<01:09:47.600><c> low</c><01:09:48.080><c> especially</c><01:09:48.319><c> if</c><01:09:48.480><c> you're</c><01:09:48.560><c> not</c><01:09:48.719><c> on</c> fairly low especially if you're not on the<01:09:49.040><c> board.</c><01:09:49.600><c> So</c><01:09:49.839><c> I</c><01:09:50.400><c> so</c><01:09:50.640><c> actually</c><01:09:51.279><c> that's</c><01:09:51.600><c> one</c>

the board. So I so actually that's one argument<01:09:52.159><c> for</c><01:09:52.400><c> I</c><01:09:52.560><c> think</c><01:09:52.640><c> it's</c><01:09:52.880><c> totally</c><01:09:53.120><c> fine</c> argument for I think it's totally fine to<01:09:53.520><c> invest</c><01:09:53.759><c> in</c><01:09:54.000><c> both.</c><01:09:54.480><c> Let</c><01:09:54.640><c> me</c><01:09:54.800><c> make</c><01:09:54.960><c> another</c> to invest in both. Let me make another which<01:09:55.520><c> goes</c><01:09:55.760><c> back</c><01:09:55.920><c> to</c><01:09:56.080><c> Harry's</c><01:09:56.480><c> latest</c><01:09:56.800><c> stage</c>

which goes back to Harry's latest stage thing.<01:09:57.600><c> One</c><01:09:57.840><c> of</c><01:09:57.840><c> the</c><01:09:58.000><c> bigs</c><01:09:58.480><c> I've</c><01:09:58.640><c> had</c><01:09:58.800><c> is</c><01:09:58.960><c> this.</c> thing. One of the bigs I've had is this. In<01:09:59.760><c> the</c><01:09:59.920><c> early</c><01:10:00.159><c> stage</c><01:10:00.400><c> when</c><01:10:00.560><c> you're</c><01:10:00.719><c> on</c><01:10:00.880><c> the</c> In the early stage when you're on the

board<01:10:01.199><c> you</c><01:10:01.360><c> can't</c><01:10:01.520><c> invest</c><01:10:01.760><c> in</c><01:10:02.000><c> two</c> board you can't invest in two competitors. In<01:10:04.159><c> the</c><01:10:04.320><c> late</c><01:10:04.560><c> stage</c><01:10:04.960><c> structurally</c><01:10:05.440><c> you</c><01:10:05.600><c> have</c> In the late stage structurally you have to<01:10:06.320><c> and</c><01:10:06.480><c> we'll</c><01:10:06.640><c> talk</c><01:10:06.800><c> about</c><01:10:06.960><c> that</c><01:10:07.520><c> not</c><01:10:07.520><c> not</c>

to and we'll talk about that not not have<01:10:07.840><c> to</c><01:10:08.000><c> but</c><01:10:08.239><c> you</c><01:10:08.400><c> you</c><01:10:08.640><c> should</c><01:10:08.800><c> be</c><01:10:08.960><c> able</c><01:10:09.120><c> to</c> have to but you you should be able to because<01:10:09.840><c> the</c><01:10:10.080><c> if</c><01:10:10.239><c> you</c><01:10:10.320><c> believe</c><01:10:10.480><c> that</c><01:10:10.640><c> the</c><01:10:10.880><c> late</c> because the if you believe that the late

stage<01:10:11.280><c> is</c><01:10:11.520><c> the</c><01:10:11.760><c> replacement</c><01:10:12.320><c> for</c><01:10:12.560><c> what</c><01:10:12.880><c> was</c> stage is the replacement for what was the<01:10:13.280><c> public</c><01:10:13.600><c> markets</c><01:10:14.000><c> for</c><01:10:14.320><c> kind</c><01:10:14.560><c> of</c><01:10:14.719><c> high</c> the public markets for kind of high growth<01:10:15.280><c> companies</c><01:10:16.000><c> fidelity</c><01:10:16.560><c> growth</c><01:10:16.880><c> would</c>

growth companies fidelity growth would have<01:10:17.280><c> invested</c><01:10:17.679><c> in</c><01:10:17.840><c> open</c><01:10:18.080><c> AI</c><01:10:18.320><c> and</c><01:10:18.480><c> entropic</c> have invested in open AI and entropic they're<01:10:19.120><c> not</c><01:10:19.280><c> on</c><01:10:19.360><c> the</c><01:10:19.440><c> board</c><01:10:19.600><c> of</c><01:10:19.760><c> either</c><01:10:20.080><c> they</c> they're not on the board of either they want<01:10:20.320><c> to</c><01:10:20.480><c> make</c><01:10:20.560><c> the</c><01:10:20.719><c> secular</c><01:10:21.120><c> bet</c><01:10:21.920><c> so</c><01:10:22.080><c> I</c><01:10:22.320><c> think</c>

want to make the secular bet so I think the<01:10:22.719><c> companies</c><01:10:23.040><c> that</c><01:10:23.280><c> are</c><01:10:23.440><c> replacing</c><01:10:23.920><c> them</c><01:10:24.080><c> in</c> the companies that are replacing them in the<01:10:24.320><c> latest</c><01:10:24.640><c> stage</c><01:10:24.880><c> private</c><01:10:25.199><c> markets</c><01:10:25.520><c> are</c> the latest stage private markets are going<01:10:25.760><c> to</c><01:10:25.840><c> do</c><01:10:25.920><c> roughly</c><01:10:26.239><c> the</c><01:10:26.400><c> same</c><01:10:26.560><c> thing</c><01:10:27.520><c> drive</c>

going to do roughly the same thing drive is<01:10:27.840><c> a</c><01:10:28.000><c> master</c><01:10:28.239><c> of</c><01:10:28.400><c> late</c><01:10:28.719><c> now</c><01:10:28.960><c> ironically</c> is a master of late now ironically you're<01:10:29.679><c> right</c><01:10:30.000><c> they</c><01:10:30.239><c> said</c><01:10:30.320><c> that</c><01:10:30.480><c> they</c> you're right they said that they wouldn't<01:10:30.960><c> invest</c><01:10:31.199><c> in</c><01:10:31.360><c> entropic</c><01:10:31.920><c> when</c><01:10:32.000><c> they</c>

wouldn't invest in entropic when they invested<01:10:32.480><c> in</c><01:10:32.640><c> open</c><01:10:32.880><c> AI</c><01:10:33.120><c> so</c><01:10:33.280><c> it</c><01:10:33.520><c> is</c><01:10:33.679><c> odd,</c><01:10:34.000><c> but</c> invested in open AI so it is odd, but generally<01:10:34.640><c> thinking,</c><01:10:34.960><c> I</c><01:10:35.120><c> think</c><01:10:35.199><c> it</c><01:10:35.440><c> actually</c> generally thinking, I think it actually is<01:10:35.920><c> not</c><01:10:36.159><c> a</c><01:10:36.480><c> problem</c><01:10:37.440><c> if</c><01:10:37.679><c> you</c><01:10:37.840><c> have</c><01:10:38.000><c> limited</c>

is not a problem if you have limited information<01:10:38.800><c> rights</c><01:10:39.120><c> to</c><01:10:39.280><c> be</c><01:10:39.360><c> invested</c><01:10:39.760><c> as</c><01:10:40.000><c> a</c> information rights to be invested as a pure<01:10:40.480><c> latestage</c><01:10:40.960><c> investor</c><01:10:41.360><c> or</c><01:10:41.520><c> non-board</c> pure latestage investor or non-board member<01:10:42.719><c> in</c><01:10:43.040><c> multiple</c><01:10:43.440><c> companies</c><01:10:43.760><c> in</c><01:10:44.000><c> the</c><01:10:44.159><c> same</c>

member in multiple companies in the same broad<01:10:44.719><c> thematic</c><01:10:45.120><c> area.</c><01:10:45.440><c> It's</c><01:10:45.600><c> not</c><01:10:45.760><c> our</c> broad thematic area. It's not our business,<01:10:46.239><c> but</c><01:10:47.040><c> especially</c> business, but especially >> I<01:10:47.520><c> will</c><01:10:47.679><c> say</c><01:10:47.840><c> one</c><01:10:48.000><c> thing</c><01:10:48.080><c> that's</c><01:10:48.320><c> changed</c><01:10:48.560><c> over</c>

>> I will say one thing that's changed over the<01:10:48.880><c> years</c><01:10:49.120><c> too</c><01:10:49.760><c> um</c><01:10:50.159><c> more</c><01:10:50.400><c> recently</c><01:10:50.800><c> is</c><01:10:51.280><c> um</c> the years too um more recently is um >> monogous. >> Harry<01:10:53.360><c> Perry</c><01:10:53.760><c> has</c><01:10:53.920><c> even</c><01:10:54.159><c> more</c><01:10:54.400><c> data.</c><01:10:54.880><c> He</c><01:10:55.040><c> can</c> >> Harry Perry has even more data. He can

challenge<01:10:55.440><c> me</c><01:10:55.520><c> on</c><01:10:55.679><c> it,</c><01:10:55.760><c> but</c><01:10:56.000><c> in</c><01:10:56.159><c> my</c><01:10:56.320><c> my</c> challenge me on it, but in my my experience<01:10:57.520><c> for</c><01:10:57.679><c> these</c><01:10:58.159><c> smaller</c><01:10:58.640><c> late</c><01:10:58.960><c> stage</c> experience for these smaller late stage investors,<01:10:59.679><c> they</c><01:10:59.920><c> get</c><01:11:00.159><c> nothing</c><01:11:00.560><c> from</c><01:11:00.800><c> the</c>

investors, they get nothing from the company.<01:11:02.000><c> 100%</c><01:11:03.040><c> 100%</c> company. 100% 100% >> nothing.<01:11:04.719><c> So</c><01:11:04.880><c> let's</c><01:11:05.120><c> say</c><01:11:05.199><c> I'm</c><01:11:05.360><c> a</c><01:11:05.520><c> founder.</c><01:11:05.840><c> You</c> >> nothing. So let's say I'm a founder. You could<01:11:06.080><c> ask</c><01:11:06.239><c> me</c><01:11:06.400><c> like</c><01:11:06.640><c> let's</c><01:11:06.880><c> let's</c><01:11:07.120><c> say</c><01:11:07.600><c> let's</c>

could ask me like let's let's say let's say<01:11:08.080><c> whoever</c><01:11:08.880><c> whatever</c><01:11:09.280><c> fund</c><01:11:09.520><c> invested</c><01:11:09.920><c> in</c><01:11:10.159><c> my</c> say whoever whatever fund invested in my competitor<01:11:11.280><c> but</c><01:11:11.440><c> they're</c><01:11:11.679><c> only</c><01:11:11.840><c> 80%</c> competitor but they're only 80% competitor<01:11:12.719><c> to</c><01:11:12.880><c> Harry's</c><01:11:13.199><c> to</c><01:11:13.360><c> Royy's</c><01:11:13.679><c> partner</c>

competitor to Harry's to Royy's partner or<01:11:14.080><c> 20</c><01:11:14.239><c> or</c><01:11:14.400><c> 40,</c><01:11:14.800><c> right?</c><01:11:15.920><c> This</c><01:11:16.159><c> might</c><01:11:16.320><c> really</c> or 20 or 40, right? This might really bother<01:11:16.800><c> me</c><01:11:16.960><c> at</c><01:11:17.120><c> the</c><01:11:17.199><c> seed</c><01:11:17.520><c> stage.</c><01:11:17.760><c> If</c><01:11:17.920><c> I</c><01:11:18.080><c> like</c> bother me at the seed stage. If I like

their<01:11:18.480><c> brand</c><01:11:19.120><c> and</c><01:11:19.360><c> I'm</c><01:11:19.520><c> going</c><01:11:19.600><c> to</c><01:11:19.679><c> give</c><01:11:19.840><c> them</c> their brand and I'm going to give them nothing,<01:11:20.719><c> they're</c><01:11:20.960><c> going</c><01:11:21.040><c> to</c><01:11:21.120><c> learn</c> nothing, they're going to learn literally<01:11:22.480><c> less</c><01:11:22.800><c> than</c><01:11:23.199><c> that</c><01:11:23.440><c> less</c><01:11:23.760><c> less</c><01:11:24.000><c> than</c>

literally less than that less less than a<01:11:24.320><c> Google</c><01:11:24.560><c> search,</c><01:11:24.880><c> let</c><01:11:25.040><c> alone</c><01:11:25.520><c> an</c><01:11:25.679><c> anthropic</c> a Google search, let alone an anthropic deep<01:11:26.800><c> dive.</c><01:11:27.840><c> Maybe</c><01:11:28.000><c> I</c><01:11:28.239><c> just</c><01:11:28.560><c> literally</c><01:11:29.040><c> don't</c> deep dive. Maybe I just literally don't care.<01:11:29.679><c> And</c><01:11:29.920><c> maybe</c><01:11:30.080><c> I</c><01:11:30.320><c> even</c><01:11:30.560><c> like</c><01:11:30.719><c> to</c><01:11:30.960><c> usurp</c>

care. And maybe I even like to usurp that<01:11:31.760><c> investor</c><01:11:32.560><c> from</c><01:11:32.880><c> my</c><01:11:33.120><c> competitor,</c><01:11:33.760><c> right?</c> that investor from my competitor, right? Um,<01:11:34.960><c> so</c><01:11:35.600><c> in</c><01:11:35.840><c> the</c><01:11:35.920><c> old</c><01:11:36.080><c> days</c><01:11:36.560><c> you</c><01:11:36.800><c> ask</c><01:11:37.120><c> and</c><01:11:37.280><c> I</c> Um, so in the old days you ask and I still<01:11:37.679><c> think</c><01:11:37.840><c> you</c><01:11:38.000><c> ask</c><01:11:38.239><c> the</c><01:11:38.480><c> founder.</c><01:11:38.880><c> I</c><01:11:39.120><c> hope</c>

still think you ask the founder. I hope you<01:11:39.440><c> ask</c><01:11:39.679><c> the</c><01:11:39.840><c> founder,</c><01:11:40.560><c> but</c><01:11:40.800><c> you</c><01:11:40.960><c> can</c> you ask the founder, but you can position<01:11:41.440><c> in</c><01:11:41.600><c> the</c><01:11:41.679><c> way</c><01:11:41.840><c> they're</c><01:11:42.080><c> getting</c> position in the way they're getting nothing,<01:11:42.800><c> right?</c><01:11:43.120><c> The</c><01:11:43.280><c> founder</c><01:11:43.600><c> might</c><01:11:43.760><c> like</c>

nothing, right? The founder might like it.<01:11:44.239><c> I</c><01:11:44.400><c> mean,</c><01:11:44.880><c> you</c><01:11:45.120><c> never</c><01:11:45.360><c> know.</c><01:11:45.679><c> You</c><01:11:45.840><c> just</c> it. I mean, you never know. You just maybe<01:11:46.560><c> that</c><01:11:46.719><c> maybe</c><01:11:46.880><c> the</c><01:11:47.040><c> latter</c><01:11:47.360><c> part</c><01:11:47.520><c> I</c><01:11:47.679><c> got</c><01:11:47.840><c> a</c> maybe that maybe the latter part I got a

little<01:11:48.000><c> bit</c><01:11:48.080><c> backwards,</c><01:11:48.480><c> but</c><01:11:48.640><c> my</c><01:11:48.800><c> point</c><01:11:48.960><c> is</c> little bit backwards, but my point is there's<01:11:49.440><c> just</c><01:11:49.600><c> like</c><01:11:49.760><c> no</c><01:11:50.080><c> effing</c><01:11:50.480><c> disclosure</c> there's just like no effing disclosure now.<01:11:52.239><c> It's</c><01:11:52.480><c> like</c><01:11:52.640><c> doing</c><01:11:52.800><c> an</c><01:11:52.960><c> angelist</c>

now. It's like doing an angelist investment<01:11:53.840><c> from</c><01:11:54.000><c> the</c><01:11:54.159><c> old</c><01:11:54.320><c> days.</c><01:11:54.719><c> Like</c><01:11:54.960><c> you</c> investment from the old days. Like you don't<01:11:55.280><c> hear</c><01:11:55.520><c> for</c><01:11:55.679><c> you</c><01:11:55.840><c> might</c><01:11:55.920><c> not</c><01:11:56.080><c> hear</c> don't hear for you might not hear anybody<01:11:56.480><c> from</c><01:11:56.719><c> 5</c><01:11:56.960><c> years.</c><01:11:57.679><c> Congratulations,</c>

anybody from 5 years. Congratulations, Harry.<01:11:58.719><c> Here's</c><01:11:58.960><c> your</c><01:11:59.120><c> 2</c><01:11:59.280><c> and</c><01:11:59.360><c> 1/2x</c><01:11:59.840><c> check.</c><01:12:00.560><c> Uh</c> Harry. Here's your 2 and 1/2x check. Uh the<01:12:01.120><c> the</c><01:12:01.280><c> the</c><01:12:01.600><c> round</c><01:12:01.760><c> on</c><01:12:02.000><c> Techrunch</c><01:12:02.560><c> looked</c> the the the round on Techrunch looked like<01:12:02.880><c> a</c><01:12:03.120><c> massive</c><01:12:03.360><c> exit.</c><01:12:03.760><c> It's</c><01:12:03.920><c> 2</c><01:12:04.080><c> and</c><01:12:04.239><c> 1</c><01:12:04.239><c> halfx,</c>

like a massive exit. It's 2 and 1 halfx, but<01:12:04.880><c> here's</c><01:12:05.040><c> your</c><01:12:05.199><c> money.</c><01:12:05.679><c> Thanks</c><01:12:05.920><c> for</c><01:12:06.080><c> being</c> but here's your money. Thanks for being a<01:12:06.400><c> part</c><01:12:06.480><c> of</c><01:12:06.560><c> it.</c><01:12:06.719><c> Thanks</c><01:12:06.880><c> for</c><01:12:07.040><c> the</c><01:12:07.120><c> mention</c><01:12:07.360><c> on</c> a part of it. Thanks for the mention on 20VC,<01:12:08.080><c> by</c><01:12:08.159><c> the</c><01:12:08.239><c> way.</c><01:12:08.400><c> Very</c><01:12:08.640><c> helpful</c><01:12:08.960><c> a</c><01:12:09.120><c> year</c>

20VC, by the way. Very helpful a year ago.<01:12:09.599><c> [snorts]</c> ago. [snorts] >> Dude,<01:12:10.239><c> I</c><01:12:10.880><c> normally</c><01:12:11.600><c> normally.</c><01:12:12.640><c> 2x,</c><01:12:13.040><c> but</c><01:12:13.280><c> yeah,</c> >> Dude, I normally normally. 2x, but yeah, thanks.<01:12:14.184><c> [laughter]</c> thanks. [laughter] >> I<01:12:16.080><c> I</c><01:12:16.400><c> think</c><01:12:16.480><c> the</c><01:12:16.640><c> point</c><01:12:16.800><c> there's</c><01:12:17.120><c> really</c><01:12:17.360><c> three</c>

>> I I think the point there's really three categories<01:12:18.000><c> of</c><01:12:18.159><c> investor.</c><01:12:18.640><c> There's</c><01:12:18.960><c> passive</c> categories of investor. There's passive early<01:12:19.679><c> angels.</c><01:12:20.080><c> I</c><01:12:20.239><c> don't</c><01:12:20.320><c> have</c><01:12:20.400><c> an</c><01:12:20.560><c> opinion</c><01:12:20.800><c> on</c> early angels. I don't have an opinion on that.<01:12:21.120><c> It's</c><01:12:21.280><c> not</c><01:12:21.440><c> my</c><01:12:21.600><c> business.</c><01:12:22.239><c> It's</c><01:12:22.480><c> kind</c><01:12:22.640><c> of</c>

that. It's not my business. It's kind of A<01:12:22.880><c> and</c><01:12:23.120><c> B</c><01:12:23.280><c> where</c><01:12:23.520><c> we</c><01:12:23.679><c> play</c><01:12:23.920><c> where</c><01:12:24.080><c> you're</c> A and B where we play where you're taking<01:12:24.400><c> a</c><01:12:24.640><c> board.</c><01:12:25.120><c> You</c><01:12:25.360><c> absolutely</c><01:12:25.760><c> can't</c><01:12:26.000><c> do</c> taking a board. You absolutely can't do competitive<01:12:26.719><c> deals.</c><01:12:27.040><c> And</c><01:12:27.199><c> then</c><01:12:27.440><c> there</c><01:12:27.600><c> is</c>

competitive deals. And then there is this<01:12:27.920><c> new</c><01:12:28.239><c> market</c><01:12:28.560><c> that</c><01:12:28.880><c> in</c><01:12:29.120><c> the</c><01:12:29.280><c> last</c><01:12:29.520><c> 15</c> this new market that in the last 15 years<01:12:30.320><c> the</c><01:12:30.560><c> latest</c><01:12:30.880><c> stage</c><01:12:31.120><c> replacement</c><01:12:31.679><c> for</c> years the latest stage replacement for public<01:12:32.560><c> companies</c><01:12:32.880><c> where</c><01:12:33.120><c> I</c><01:12:33.280><c> think</c><01:12:33.360><c> you</c><01:12:33.600><c> can</c>

public companies where I think you can because<01:12:34.400><c> you</c><01:12:34.640><c> are</c><01:12:34.880><c> replicating</c><01:12:35.760><c> economic</c> because you are replicating economic terms<01:12:36.960><c> what</c><01:12:37.199><c> used</c><01:12:37.360><c> to</c><01:12:37.520><c> be</c><01:12:38.320><c> the</c><01:12:38.560><c> NASDAQ</c><01:12:39.199><c> small</c> terms what used to be the NASDAQ small cap<01:12:39.840><c> marketplace</c><01:12:40.400><c> and</c><01:12:40.560><c> there</c><01:12:40.719><c> was</c><01:12:40.880><c> no</c>

cap marketplace and there was no prohibition<01:12:41.440><c> on</c><01:12:41.679><c> cross</c><01:12:42.000><c> investing</c><01:12:42.800><c> so</c><01:12:43.040><c> it's</c> prohibition on cross investing so it's inefficient<01:12:43.679><c> to</c><01:12:43.840><c> create</c><01:12:44.080><c> one</c> inefficient to create one >> we're<01:12:46.000><c> going</c><01:12:46.080><c> to</c><01:12:46.239><c> discuss</c><01:12:46.640><c> a</c><01:12:46.800><c> final</c><01:12:47.360><c> final</c>

>> we're going to discuss a final final topic<01:12:48.320><c> which</c><01:12:48.719><c> is</c><01:12:49.040><c> kind</c><01:12:49.679><c> could</c><01:12:49.840><c> be</c><01:12:49.920><c> in</c><01:12:50.080><c> the</c><01:12:50.159><c> same</c> topic which is kind could be in the same realm<01:12:50.560><c> in</c><01:12:50.719><c> some</c><01:12:50.880><c> respects</c><01:12:51.520><c> but</c><01:12:51.760><c> I</c><01:12:51.920><c> mean</c><01:12:52.159><c> I</c> realm in some respects but I mean I

actually<01:12:52.560><c> really</c><01:12:52.800><c> wanted</c><01:12:52.960><c> to</c><01:12:53.120><c> do</c><01:12:53.199><c> this</c><01:12:53.280><c> which</c> actually really wanted to do this which we<01:12:53.679><c> mentioned</c><01:12:53.920><c> last</c><01:12:54.159><c> week</c><01:12:54.320><c> Bending</c><01:12:54.640><c> Spoons</c> we mentioned last week Bending Spoons their<01:12:55.120><c> IPO</c><01:12:55.520><c> very</c><01:12:55.760><c> successful</c><01:12:56.719><c> uh</c><01:12:56.880><c> and</c><01:12:57.120><c> needing</c>

their IPO very successful uh and needing the<01:12:57.520><c> B2B</c><01:12:58.000><c> version</c><01:12:58.239><c> of</c><01:12:58.400><c> that.</c><01:12:58.960><c> Um</c> the B2B version of that. Um Constellation<01:13:00.800><c> buys</c><01:13:01.199><c> Touch</c><01:13:01.600><c> Beastro</c> Constellation buys Touch Beastro respectfully.<01:13:03.520><c> I'm</c><01:13:03.679><c> sure</c><01:13:03.920><c> no</c><01:13:04.080><c> one's</c><01:13:04.320><c> heard</c><01:13:04.480><c> of</c> respectfully. I'm sure no one's heard of

it.<01:13:05.120><c> 70</c><01:13:05.520><c> million</c><01:13:05.840><c> AR</c><01:13:06.400><c> toast</c><01:13:06.719><c> competitor</c><01:13:07.920><c> not</c> it. 70 million AR toast competitor not growing.<01:13:08.960><c> They</c><01:13:09.199><c> bought</c><01:13:09.440><c> a</c><01:13:09.760><c> 70</c><01:13:10.159><c> million</c><01:13:10.640><c> ARR</c> growing. They bought a 70 million ARR company<01:13:12.239><c> for</c><01:13:12.800><c> $70</c><01:13:13.520><c> million.</c> company for $70 million.

How<01:13:16.480><c> do</c><01:13:16.640><c> we</c><01:13:16.800><c> think</c><01:13:16.960><c> about</c><01:13:17.120><c> this?</c><01:13:17.440><c> Is</c><01:13:17.679><c> this</c><01:13:17.840><c> the</c> How do we think about this? Is this the future<01:13:18.320><c> of</c><01:13:18.800><c> preAI</c><01:13:19.600><c> SAS?</c><01:13:20.480><c> Uh</c><01:13:20.800><c> I</c><01:13:21.040><c> just</c><01:13:21.199><c> had</c><01:13:21.760><c> um</c> future of preAI SAS? Uh I just had um the<01:13:22.320><c> Wix</c><01:13:22.719><c> founder</c><01:13:23.040><c> on</c><01:13:23.199><c> the</c><01:13:23.360><c> show.</c>

the Wix founder on the show. >> Yeah.<01:13:25.199><c> 2.1</c><01:13:25.840><c> billion</c><01:13:26.159><c> in</c><01:13:26.400><c> revenue,</c><01:13:27.440><c> 2.1</c> >> Yeah. 2.1 billion in revenue, 2.1 billion<01:13:28.480><c> market</c><01:13:28.800><c> cap.</c><01:13:29.280><c> The</c><01:13:29.440><c> touch</c><01:13:29.760><c> beastro</c> billion market cap. The touch beastro thing<01:13:30.480><c> first</c><01:13:30.640><c> of</c><01:13:30.800><c> all</c><01:13:31.520><c> is</c><01:13:32.000><c> it</c><01:13:32.239><c> is</c><01:13:32.480><c> your</c><01:13:32.719><c> destiny</c>

thing first of all is it is your destiny if<01:13:33.760><c> on</c><01:13:34.080><c> top</c><01:13:34.239><c> of</c><01:13:34.400><c> a</c><01:13:34.640><c> slow</c><01:13:34.960><c> growth</c><01:13:35.440><c> company</c><01:13:35.840><c> you</c> if on top of a slow growth company you also<01:13:36.480><c> put</c><01:13:36.719><c> a</c><01:13:36.960><c> whole</c><01:13:37.120><c> bunch</c><01:13:37.280><c> of</c><01:13:37.440><c> leverage</c><01:13:37.920><c> and</c> also put a whole bunch of leverage and

you<01:13:38.560><c> know</c><01:13:38.719><c> they</c><01:13:38.960><c> did</c><01:13:39.199><c> a</c><01:13:39.520><c> round</c><01:13:39.760><c> with</c><01:13:40.000><c> I</c><01:13:40.159><c> think</c> you know they did a round with I think in<01:13:41.280><c> 19</c><01:13:41.679><c> at</c><01:13:42.080><c> 600</c><01:13:42.560><c> million</c><01:13:42.880><c> pre</c><01:13:43.520><c> but</c><01:13:43.760><c> then</c><01:13:43.920><c> they</c> in 19 at 600 million pre but then they took<01:13:44.239><c> money</c><01:13:44.400><c> from</c><01:13:44.640><c> Francisco</c><01:13:45.199><c> partners</c><01:13:46.239><c> which</c>

took money from Francisco partners which in<01:13:46.880><c> the</c><01:13:46.960><c> form</c><01:13:47.199><c> of</c><01:13:47.360><c> debt</c><01:13:48.080><c> when</c><01:13:48.239><c> they</c><01:13:48.480><c> missed</c> in the form of debt when they missed that<01:13:49.360><c> debt</c><01:13:49.679><c> was</c><01:13:50.000><c> converted</c><01:13:50.480><c> to</c><01:13:50.640><c> senior</c><01:13:51.040><c> equity</c> that debt was converted to senior equity and<01:13:51.840><c> my</c><01:13:52.080><c> guess</c><01:13:52.239><c> is</c><01:13:52.480><c> the</c><01:13:52.719><c> company</c><01:13:52.960><c> was</c><01:13:53.199><c> running</c>

and my guess is the company was running out<01:13:53.600><c> of</c><01:13:53.760><c> money</c><01:13:54.480><c> the</c><01:13:54.719><c> senior</c><01:13:55.120><c> equity</c><01:13:55.920><c> which</c><01:13:56.239><c> had</c> out of money the senior equity which had seniority<01:13:57.120><c> could</c><01:13:57.520><c> had</c><01:13:57.520><c> could</c><01:13:57.760><c> put</c><01:13:57.840><c> in</c><01:13:58.080><c> 100</c><01:13:58.320><c> and</c> seniority could had could put in 100 and they<01:13:58.560><c> could</c><01:13:58.960><c> all</c><01:13:59.120><c> the</c><01:13:59.280><c> money</c><01:13:59.520><c> back</c><01:13:59.600><c> in</c><01:13:59.840><c> a</c><01:14:00.000><c> sale</c>

they could all the money back in a sale and<01:14:01.040><c> no</c><01:14:01.199><c> one</c><01:14:01.360><c> else</c><01:14:01.520><c> had</c><01:14:01.760><c> any</c><01:14:01.920><c> incentive</c><01:14:02.320><c> to</c><01:14:02.480><c> put</c> and no one else had any incentive to put money<01:14:02.880><c> in.</c><01:14:03.280><c> So</c><01:14:04.480><c> the</c><01:14:04.719><c> aha</c><01:14:05.199><c> here</c><01:14:05.360><c> is</c><01:14:05.920><c> slow</c><01:14:06.239><c> growth</c> money in. So the aha here is slow growth

businesses<01:14:07.679><c> with</c><01:14:08.000><c> clean</c><01:14:08.400><c> cap</c><01:14:08.719><c> tables,</c><01:14:09.120><c> they</c> businesses with clean cap tables, they probably<01:14:09.600><c> could</c><01:14:09.760><c> have</c><01:14:09.920><c> done</c><01:14:10.159><c> better.</c><01:14:10.800><c> They</c> probably could have done better. They probably<01:14:11.280><c> could</c><01:14:11.440><c> have</c><01:14:11.600><c> kept</c><01:14:11.840><c> going.</c><01:14:12.159><c> Maybe</c>

probably could have kept going. Maybe they<01:14:12.560><c> could</c><01:14:12.640><c> have</c><01:14:12.800><c> made</c><01:14:12.960><c> that</c><01:14:13.199><c> 7140.</c><01:14:14.080><c> It's</c> they could have made that 7140. It's never<01:14:14.400><c> going</c><01:14:14.480><c> to</c><01:14:14.560><c> be</c><01:14:14.719><c> transformative.</c><01:14:16.080><c> But</c><01:14:16.239><c> if</c> never going to be transformative. But if you<01:14:16.560><c> have</c><01:14:16.640><c> a</c><01:14:16.800><c> slow</c><01:14:17.040><c> growth</c><01:14:17.360><c> company</c><01:14:17.600><c> and</c><01:14:17.760><c> on</c>

you have a slow growth company and on top<01:14:18.080><c> of</c><01:14:18.159><c> that</c><01:14:18.320><c> you</c><01:14:18.480><c> have</c><01:14:18.560><c> a</c><01:14:18.719><c> big</c><01:14:18.880><c> ass</c><01:14:19.120><c> wall</c><01:14:19.360><c> of</c> top of that you have a big ass wall of debt,<01:14:20.239><c> then</c><01:14:20.480><c> yes,</c><01:14:20.719><c> this</c><01:14:20.960><c> could</c><01:14:21.120><c> be</c><01:14:21.199><c> your</c> debt, then yes, this could be your future.<01:14:21.760><c> I</c><01:14:22.080><c> read</c><01:14:22.239><c> that</c><01:14:22.480><c> case</c><01:14:23.360><c> a</c><01:14:23.600><c> couple</c><01:14:23.679><c> of</c>

future. I read that case a couple of days<01:14:24.000><c> ago</c><01:14:24.159><c> and</c><01:14:24.320><c> I'm</c><01:14:24.480><c> like</c><01:14:25.600><c> it's</c><01:14:25.840><c> just</c><01:14:26.000><c> the</c><01:14:26.159><c> real</c> days ago and I'm like it's just the real dangers<01:14:26.719><c> of</c><01:14:26.960><c> adding</c><01:14:27.199><c> a</c><01:14:27.360><c> big</c><01:14:27.600><c> slug</c><01:14:27.840><c> of</c><01:14:28.080><c> venture</c> dangers of adding a big slug of venture

debt<01:14:28.719><c> on</c><01:14:28.960><c> top</c><01:14:29.199><c> of</c><01:14:29.440><c> a</c><01:14:29.679><c> slow</c><01:14:29.920><c> growth</c><01:14:30.239><c> business.</c> debt on top of a slow growth business. You<01:14:30.960><c> you</c><01:14:31.280><c> just</c><01:14:31.440><c> end</c><01:14:31.600><c> up</c><01:14:31.760><c> trapped.</c><01:14:32.080><c> You</c><01:14:32.159><c> put</c> You you just end up trapped. You put your<01:14:32.480><c> equity</c><01:14:32.719><c> at</c><01:14:32.880><c> risk</c><01:14:33.440><c> and</c><01:14:33.600><c> you</c><01:14:33.760><c> end</c><01:14:33.920><c> up</c><01:14:34.000><c> with</c>

your equity at risk and you end up with a<01:14:34.239><c> cap</c><01:14:34.560><c> table</c><01:14:34.719><c> which</c><01:14:34.960><c> is</c><01:14:35.040><c> very</c><01:14:35.280><c> misaligned.</c> a cap table which is very misaligned. You<01:14:36.400><c> end</c><01:14:36.560><c> up</c><01:14:36.719><c> with</c><01:14:36.800><c> a</c><01:14:36.960><c> bunch</c><01:14:37.120><c> of</c><01:14:37.280><c> people</c><01:14:37.440><c> who</c> You end up with a bunch of people who are<01:14:37.760><c> like</c><01:14:38.080><c> at</c><01:14:38.320><c> the</c><01:14:38.480><c> top</c><01:14:38.560><c> of</c><01:14:38.640><c> the</c><01:14:38.800><c> cap</c><01:14:39.040><c> table</c>

are like at the top of the cap table just<01:14:39.440><c> looking</c><01:14:39.679><c> out</c><01:14:39.840><c> for</c><01:14:40.000><c> them</c><01:14:40.400><c> look</c><01:14:40.719><c> doing</c> just looking out for them look doing their<01:14:41.199><c> job</c><01:14:41.679><c> of</c><01:14:41.920><c> minding</c><01:14:42.239><c> their</c><01:14:42.400><c> money</c><01:14:42.640><c> and</c> their job of minding their money and they're<01:14:42.960><c> like</c><01:14:43.440><c> I've</c><01:14:43.679><c> lent</c><01:14:43.840><c> you</c><01:14:44.080><c> 100</c><01:14:44.400><c> million.</c>

they're like I've lent you 100 million. I<01:14:44.800><c> want</c><01:14:44.880><c> my</c><01:14:45.120><c> 100</c><01:14:45.360><c> million</c><01:14:45.600><c> back.</c><01:14:46.320><c> and</c><01:14:46.560><c> one</c> I want my 100 million back. and one level<01:14:47.040><c> down</c><01:14:47.280><c> they're</c><01:14:47.440><c> like</c><01:14:47.679><c> I've</c><01:14:47.840><c> got</c><01:14:48.000><c> 200</c> level down they're like I've got 200 million<01:14:48.560><c> in</c><01:14:48.800><c> equity</c><01:14:49.120><c> in</c><01:14:49.360><c> here</c><01:14:49.679><c> unless</c><01:14:50.000><c> I</c><01:14:50.159><c> get</c>

million in equity in here unless I get to<01:14:50.480><c> 300</c><01:14:50.800><c> million</c><01:14:51.440><c> the</c><01:14:51.600><c> first</c><01:14:51.840><c> 100</c><01:14:52.080><c> and</c><01:14:52.320><c> the</c> to 300 million the first 100 and the first<01:14:52.640><c> 100</c><01:14:52.880><c> million</c><01:14:53.360><c> is</c><01:14:53.679><c> senior</c><01:14:54.080><c> to</c><01:14:54.239><c> me</c><01:14:54.960><c> so</c><01:14:55.199><c> I</c> first 100 million is senior to me so I

have<01:14:55.520><c> nothing</c><01:14:55.760><c> to</c><01:14:55.920><c> play</c><01:14:56.080><c> for</c><01:14:57.120><c> right</c><01:14:57.360><c> so</c><01:14:57.600><c> yeah</c> have nothing to play for right so yeah that's<01:14:58.159><c> the</c><01:14:58.400><c> aha</c><01:14:58.800><c> here</c><01:14:59.520><c> right</c><01:15:00.159><c> I</c><01:15:00.400><c> think</c><01:15:00.560><c> so</c><01:15:01.760><c> for</c> that's the aha here right I think so for what<01:15:02.159><c> it's</c><01:15:02.320><c> worth</c><01:15:02.640><c> I</c><01:15:02.719><c> I</c><01:15:02.960><c> thought</c><01:15:03.120><c> it</c><01:15:03.280><c> was</c>

what it's worth I I thought it was modestly<01:15:03.840><c> interesting</c><01:15:04.159><c> because</c><01:15:04.480><c> yeah</c> modestly interesting because yeah structurally<01:15:05.520><c> they</c><01:15:05.679><c> took</c><01:15:05.840><c> on</c><01:15:06.080><c> way</c><01:15:06.239><c> too</c><01:15:06.400><c> much</c> structurally they took on way too much debt<01:15:07.040><c> there's</c><01:15:07.199><c> going</c><01:15:07.280><c> to</c><01:15:07.360><c> be</c><01:15:07.440><c> a</c><01:15:07.600><c> lot</c><01:15:07.679><c> more</c><01:15:07.840><c> of</c>

debt there's going to be a lot more of these<01:15:08.159><c> stories</c><01:15:08.400><c> coming</c><01:15:08.640><c> in</c><01:15:08.800><c> the</c><01:15:08.880><c> coming</c><01:15:09.040><c> years</c> these stories coming in the coming years I<01:15:09.360><c> really</c><01:15:09.520><c> don't</c><01:15:09.600><c> want</c><01:15:09.679><c> to</c><01:15:09.760><c> talk</c><01:15:09.920><c> to</c><01:15:10.080><c> them</c><01:15:10.239><c> but</c> I really don't want to talk to them but it<01:15:10.560><c> just</c><01:15:10.719><c> don't</c><01:15:10.880><c> do</c><01:15:11.120><c> I</c><01:15:11.280><c> just</c><01:15:11.360><c> hate</c><01:15:11.520><c> debt</c><01:15:11.679><c> now</c>

it just don't do I just hate debt now >> I<01:15:12.719><c> hate</c><01:15:12.880><c> it</c><01:15:13.040><c> I</c><01:15:13.199><c> hate</c><01:15:13.280><c> it</c><01:15:13.520><c> hate</c><01:15:13.679><c> it</c><01:15:13.840><c> hate</c><01:15:14.000><c> it</c><01:15:14.159><c> hate</c> >> I hate it I hate it hate it hate it hate it<01:15:14.560><c> I</c><01:15:14.719><c> used</c><01:15:14.880><c> to</c><01:15:15.040><c> be</c><01:15:15.120><c> a</c><01:15:15.280><c> fan</c><01:15:15.920><c> But</c><01:15:16.159><c> people</c><01:15:16.320><c> take</c><01:15:16.480><c> on</c>

it I used to be a fan But people take on too<01:15:16.960><c> much</c><01:15:17.120><c> and</c><01:15:18.000><c> certainly</c><01:15:18.320><c> don't</c><01:15:18.560><c> do</c><01:15:18.719><c> debt</c> too much and certainly don't do debt instead<01:15:19.199><c> of</c><01:15:19.280><c> an</c><01:15:19.520><c> equity</c><01:15:19.760><c> round.</c><01:15:20.159><c> That's</c><01:15:20.320><c> the</c> instead of an equity round. That's the sucker<01:15:20.800><c> bet,</c><01:15:21.199><c> right?</c><01:15:21.440><c> It's</c><01:15:21.679><c> just</c><01:15:22.159><c> you</c><01:15:22.320><c> better</c>

sucker bet, right? It's just you better be<01:15:22.719><c> the</c><01:15:22.800><c> hottest</c><01:15:23.120><c> thing</c><01:15:23.199><c> on</c><01:15:23.440><c> planet</c><01:15:23.679><c> earth</c><01:15:23.920><c> or</c> be the hottest thing on planet earth or it's<01:15:24.400><c> going</c><01:15:24.480><c> to</c><01:15:24.640><c> it's</c><01:15:24.960><c> going</c><01:15:25.040><c> to</c><01:15:25.120><c> kill</c><01:15:25.360><c> you.</c><01:15:25.679><c> Um</c> it's going to it's going to kill you. Um

took<01:15:26.400><c> me</c><01:15:26.480><c> a</c><01:15:26.560><c> while</c><01:15:26.719><c> to</c><01:15:26.880><c> see</c><01:15:27.040><c> it,</c><01:15:27.280><c> but</c><01:15:27.520><c> but</c><01:15:27.760><c> more</c> took me a while to see it, but but more I<01:15:28.159><c> think</c><01:15:28.320><c> more</c><01:15:28.480><c> interestingly</c><01:15:28.880><c> and</c><01:15:29.120><c> it's</c><01:15:29.280><c> not</c> I think more interestingly and it's not a<01:15:29.520><c> huge</c><01:15:29.679><c> point</c><01:15:30.239><c> because</c><01:15:30.640><c> all</c><01:15:30.800><c> the</c><01:15:30.960><c> equity</c>

a huge point because all the equity holders<01:15:31.840><c> were</c><01:15:32.000><c> basically</c><01:15:32.480><c> wiped</c><01:15:32.800><c> out</c><01:15:33.120><c> right</c> holders were basically wiped out right in<01:15:33.440><c> the</c><01:15:33.600><c> conversion,</c><01:15:33.920><c> right?</c><01:15:34.000><c> I</c><01:15:34.159><c> think</c><01:15:34.640><c> made</c><01:15:34.880><c> 2</c> in the conversion, right? I think made 2 million<01:15:35.199><c> on</c><01:15:35.360><c> its</c><01:15:35.600><c> 100</c><01:15:35.840><c> million.</c><01:15:36.719><c> It's</c><01:15:36.960><c> it's</c><01:15:37.199><c> it</c>

million on its 100 million. It's it's it became<01:15:37.840><c> a</c><01:15:38.159><c> clean</c><01:15:38.640><c> look</c><01:15:39.600><c> at</c><01:15:40.080><c> a</c><01:15:40.320><c> stalled</c><01:15:40.800><c> unicorn</c> became a clean look at a stalled unicorn at<01:15:41.520><c> at</c><01:15:41.840><c> scale.</c><01:15:42.159><c> There</c><01:15:42.320><c> weren't</c><01:15:42.560><c> egos</c><01:15:42.880><c> in</c><01:15:43.120><c> it.</c> at at scale. There weren't egos in it. There<01:15:43.679><c> weren't</c><01:15:44.000><c> 2021</c><01:15:44.719><c> markups</c><01:15:45.199><c> to</c><01:15:45.440><c> maintain.</c>

There weren't 2021 markups to maintain. There<01:15:46.480><c> weren't</c><01:15:46.800><c> even</c><01:15:47.040><c> founder</c><01:15:47.520><c> drama</c><01:15:47.920><c> to</c><01:15:48.080><c> deal</c> There weren't even founder drama to deal with.<01:15:48.640><c> What</c><01:15:48.880><c> is</c><01:15:49.040><c> it</c><01:15:49.199><c> worth</c><01:15:49.520><c> to</c><01:15:49.760><c> just</c><01:15:50.080><c> get</c><01:15:50.400><c> out</c> with. What is it worth to just get out of<01:15:50.800><c> this</c><01:15:51.120><c> thing</c><01:15:51.920><c> and</c><01:15:52.159><c> it</c><01:15:52.400><c> was</c><01:15:52.480><c> worth</c><01:15:52.719><c> 1x.</c><01:15:53.440><c> And</c>

of this thing and it was worth 1x. And so<01:15:53.760><c> I</c><01:15:53.920><c> think</c><01:15:54.000><c> it's</c><01:15:54.239><c> almost</c><01:15:54.480><c> a</c><01:15:54.719><c> clean</c><01:15:54.960><c> look</c> so I think it's almost a clean look because<01:15:55.920><c> too</c><01:15:56.159><c> many</c><01:15:56.239><c> of</c><01:15:56.320><c> these</c><01:15:56.480><c> situations</c> because too many of these situations just<01:15:57.199><c> aren't</c><01:15:57.520><c> clean</c><01:15:57.920><c> or</c><01:15:58.159><c> obscured,</c><01:15:58.960><c> right?</c>

just aren't clean or obscured, right? It's<01:15:59.760><c> a</c><01:15:59.920><c> clean</c><01:16:00.159><c> look</c><01:16:00.400><c> of</c><01:16:00.800><c> what's</c><01:16:01.679><c> 8%</c><01:16:02.560><c> 6%</c><01:16:03.199><c> growth</c> It's a clean look of what's 8% 6% growth with<01:16:03.840><c> deteriorating</c><01:16:04.480><c> market</c><01:16:04.719><c> share</c><01:16:04.960><c> at</c><01:16:05.280><c> 70</c> with deteriorating market share at 70 million<01:16:06.000><c> er</c><01:16:06.960><c> where</c><01:16:07.199><c> you're</c><01:16:07.440><c> not</c><01:16:07.600><c> reigning</c>

million er where you're not reigning cash<01:16:08.320><c> worth.</c><01:16:08.640><c> It's</c><01:16:08.880><c> worth</c><01:16:09.120><c> 1x.</c> cash worth. It's worth 1x. >> And<01:16:10.640><c> that's</c><01:16:10.880><c> a</c><01:16:11.040><c> brutal</c><01:16:11.440><c> lesson</c><01:16:11.679><c> to</c><01:16:11.920><c> founders</c> >> And that's a brutal lesson to founders like<01:16:13.360><c> If</c><01:16:13.520><c> you</c><01:16:13.600><c> don't</c><01:16:13.679><c> want</c><01:16:13.760><c> to</c><01:16:13.920><c> be</c><01:16:14.000><c> worth</c><01:16:14.239><c> 1x,</c>

like If you don't want to be worth 1x, like<01:16:15.120><c> do</c><01:16:15.360><c> something</c><01:16:15.600><c> before</c><01:16:15.840><c> it's</c><01:16:16.080><c> too</c><01:16:16.239><c> late,</c> like do something before it's too late, man. >> The<01:16:17.199><c> other</c><01:16:17.360><c> thing</c><01:16:17.440><c> I</c><01:16:17.600><c> just</c><01:16:17.760><c> look</c><01:16:17.920><c> for</c><01:16:18.000><c> is</c><01:16:18.239><c> like,</c> >> The other thing I just look for is like,

was<01:16:18.560><c> it</c><01:16:18.719><c> still</c><01:16:18.880><c> founder</c><01:16:19.360><c> led?</c><01:16:19.600><c> Like,</c><01:16:19.760><c> was</c><01:16:19.920><c> the</c> was it still founder led? Like, was the CEO<01:16:20.400><c> still</c><01:16:20.640><c> a</c><01:16:20.800><c> founder?</c><01:16:21.120><c> And</c><01:16:21.360><c> no,</c><01:16:22.159><c> found</c> CEO still a founder? And no, found founder stepped<01:16:24.880><c> away</c><01:16:25.280><c> March</c><01:16:25.600><c> 2021.</c>

stepped away March 2021. >> I<01:16:26.960><c> mean,</c><01:16:27.120><c> that's</c><01:16:27.280><c> part</c><01:16:27.440><c> of</c><01:16:27.600><c> why</c><01:16:27.760><c> it</c><01:16:27.920><c> got</c><01:16:28.080><c> in</c><01:16:28.239><c> the</c> >> I mean, that's part of why it got in the position,<01:16:28.880><c> right?</c><01:16:29.280><c> But</c><01:16:29.440><c> it</c><01:16:29.600><c> also</c><01:16:29.840><c> makes</c><01:16:30.000><c> the</c> position, right? But it also makes the

deal<01:16:30.400><c> possible,</c><01:16:30.960><c> right?</c><01:16:31.120><c> If</c><01:16:31.280><c> the</c><01:16:31.440><c> founders</c> deal possible, right? If the founders have<01:16:31.840><c> a</c><01:16:32.000><c> veto,</c><01:16:32.880><c> they,</c><01:16:33.199><c> you</c><01:16:33.280><c> know,</c><01:16:33.440><c> they</c><01:16:33.840><c> 1x</c><01:16:34.320><c> may</c> have a veto, they, you know, they 1x may not<01:16:34.640><c> be</c><01:16:34.800><c> exciting</c><01:16:35.120><c> when</c><01:16:35.360><c> the</c><01:16:35.520><c> when</c><01:16:35.760><c> there's</c>

not be exciting when the when there's nothing<01:16:36.320><c> when</c><01:16:36.480><c> when</c><01:16:36.800><c> it</c><01:16:36.960><c> doesn't</c><01:16:37.120><c> clear</c><01:16:37.360><c> the</c> nothing when when it doesn't clear the preference<01:16:38.159><c> tag.</c><01:16:38.807><c> [laughter]</c> preference tag. [laughter] >> They're<01:16:39.360><c> made</c><01:16:39.520><c> out</c><01:16:39.679><c> of</c><01:16:39.840><c> being</c><01:16:40.000><c> trusted.</c><01:16:40.159><c> And</c><01:16:40.320><c> I</c>

>> They're made out of being trusted. And I agree<01:16:40.800><c> this</c><01:16:40.880><c> is</c><01:16:41.040><c> I</c><01:16:41.199><c> mean</c><01:16:41.280><c> look</c><01:16:41.520><c> I</c><01:16:41.679><c> don't</c><01:16:41.760><c> want</c> agree this is I mean look I don't want to<01:16:41.920><c> pick</c><01:16:42.080><c> on</c><01:16:42.239><c> them.</c><01:16:42.640><c> Stuff</c><01:16:42.880><c> happens.</c><01:16:43.280><c> I've</c><01:16:43.520><c> had</c> to pick on them. Stuff happens. I've had

deals<01:16:44.000><c> fail</c><01:16:44.320><c> too.</c><01:16:44.960><c> But</c><01:16:45.120><c> this</c><01:16:45.360><c> is</c><01:16:45.520><c> the</c><01:16:45.679><c> laundry</c> deals fail too. But this is the laundry list<01:16:46.320><c> of</c><01:16:46.560><c> everything</c><01:16:46.960><c> that</c><01:16:47.280><c> can</c><01:16:47.520><c> go</c><01:16:47.679><c> wrong.</c> list of everything that can go wrong. It's<01:16:48.400><c> the</c><01:16:49.040><c> slow</c><01:16:49.440><c> growth</c><01:16:50.320><c> non</c><01:16:51.040><c> wildly</c><01:16:51.440><c> exciting</c>

It's the slow growth non wildly exciting business<01:16:52.640><c> misaligned</c><01:16:53.360><c> cap</c><01:16:53.679><c> table.</c><01:16:54.400><c> You've</c> business misaligned cap table. You've already<01:16:55.040><c> made</c><01:16:55.199><c> the</c><01:16:55.440><c> CEO</c><01:16:56.000><c> change.</c><01:16:56.400><c> You've</c><01:16:56.560><c> got</c> already made the CEO change. You've got no<01:16:56.960><c> move</c><01:16:57.199><c> left.</c><01:16:57.920><c> This</c><01:16:58.159><c> is</c><01:16:58.239><c> the</c><01:16:58.400><c> low</c><01:16:58.560><c> end</c><01:16:58.719><c> of</c><01:16:58.880><c> the</c>

no move left. This is the low end of the outcomes<01:16:59.600><c> which</c><01:16:59.920><c> segus</c><01:17:00.400><c> to</c><01:17:00.560><c> the</c><01:17:00.719><c> buyer</c> outcomes which segus to the buyer constellation.<01:17:02.080><c> Right.</c><01:17:02.800><c> Um</c><01:17:03.199><c> because</c><01:17:03.600><c> we</c><01:17:03.840><c> t</c> constellation. Right. Um because we t and<01:17:04.320><c> you</c><01:17:04.480><c> mentioned</c><01:17:04.800><c> in</c><01:17:04.880><c> the</c><01:17:05.040><c> context</c><01:17:05.280><c> of</c>

and you mentioned in the context of bending<01:17:05.840><c> spoons</c><01:17:06.239><c> and</c><01:17:06.880><c> we</c><01:17:07.120><c> had</c><01:17:07.199><c> a</c><01:17:07.360><c> good</c> bending spoons and we had a good discussion<01:17:07.920><c> that</c><01:17:08.080><c> last</c><01:17:08.320><c> time.</c><01:17:08.480><c> It's</c><01:17:08.640><c> like,</c> discussion that last time. It's like, you<01:17:09.040><c> know,</c><01:17:09.120><c> you</c><01:17:09.199><c> got</c><01:17:09.360><c> Bending</c><01:17:09.679><c> Spoons</c><01:17:10.000><c> buying</c>

you know, you got Bending Spoons buying consumer<01:17:10.719><c> businesses</c> consumer businesses trading<01:17:12.640><c> at</c><01:17:12.880><c> 12</c><01:17:13.120><c> times</c><01:17:13.360><c> and</c><01:17:13.600><c> you</c><01:17:13.679><c> got</c> trading at 12 times and you got Constellation<01:17:14.560><c> buying</c><01:17:14.800><c> B2B</c><01:17:15.280><c> businesses</c> Constellation buying B2B businesses trading<01:17:15.920><c> at</c><01:17:16.080><c> three</c><01:17:16.320><c> times.</c><01:17:16.719><c> But</c><01:17:16.880><c> as</c><01:17:17.040><c> Jason</c>

trading at three times. But as Jason pointed<01:17:17.840><c> out,</c><01:17:18.080><c> you</c><01:17:18.239><c> know,</c> pointed out, you know, we<01:17:20.320><c> said</c><01:17:20.480><c> it</c><01:17:20.640><c> last</c><01:17:20.880><c> time,</c><01:17:21.520><c> there's</c><01:17:21.840><c> more</c> we said it last time, there's more disruption<01:17:22.480><c> in</c><01:17:22.640><c> the</c><01:17:22.719><c> B2B</c><01:17:23.199><c> space</c><01:17:24.080><c> and</c><01:17:24.400><c> these</c>

disruption in the B2B space and these preAI<01:17:25.360><c> companies</c><01:17:25.760><c> might</c><01:17:26.080><c> not</c><01:17:26.320><c> have</c><01:17:26.560><c> the</c> preAI companies might not have the durability<01:17:27.280><c> of</c><01:17:27.520><c> revenue</c><01:17:28.880><c> that</c><01:17:29.120><c> Bending</c> durability of revenue that Bending Spoons<01:17:29.840><c> does.</c><01:17:30.159><c> I</c><01:17:30.320><c> still</c><01:17:30.560><c> think</c><01:17:30.719><c> the</c>

Spoons does. I still think the difference<01:17:31.360><c> between</c><01:17:31.760><c> 12x</c><01:17:32.239><c> and</c><01:17:32.400><c> 3x</c><01:17:32.719><c> for</c><01:17:32.880><c> two</c> difference between 12x and 3x for two rollups<01:17:33.520><c> is</c><01:17:33.760><c> just</c><01:17:34.000><c> a</c><01:17:34.320><c> little</c><01:17:34.560><c> much.</c><01:17:35.280><c> And</c><01:17:35.520><c> I,</c><01:17:35.840><c> by</c> rollups is just a little much. And I, by the<01:17:36.080><c> way,</c><01:17:36.400><c> one</c><01:17:36.719><c> thought</c><01:17:36.880><c> I</c><01:17:37.120><c> had</c><01:17:37.280><c> since</c><01:17:37.520><c> then</c><01:17:37.679><c> is</c>

the way, one thought I had since then is one<01:17:38.239><c> of</c><01:17:38.320><c> the</c><01:17:38.400><c> biggest</c><01:17:38.640><c> advantage</c><01:17:39.040><c> bending</c> one of the biggest advantage bending spoons<01:17:39.760><c> might</c><01:17:39.920><c> have</c><01:17:40.080><c> is</c><01:17:40.400><c> there's</c><01:17:40.640><c> only</c><01:17:40.880><c> one</c> spoons might have is there's only one buyer<01:17:41.280><c> of</c><01:17:41.440><c> consumer</c><01:17:41.840><c> assets</c><01:17:42.239><c> and</c><01:17:42.400><c> there's</c><01:17:42.560><c> a</c>

buyer of consumer assets and there's a ton<01:17:42.880><c> of</c><01:17:42.960><c> buyers</c><01:17:43.199><c> of</c><01:17:43.280><c> B2B</c><01:17:43.679><c> assets.</c><01:17:44.000><c> So</c><01:17:44.159><c> they</c> ton of buyers of B2B assets. So they probably<01:17:44.480><c> get</c><01:17:44.560><c> the</c><01:17:44.719><c> pick</c><01:17:44.880><c> of</c><01:17:44.960><c> the</c><01:17:45.120><c> litter,</c> probably get the pick of the litter, right?<01:17:46.560><c> You</c><01:17:46.640><c> know,</c><01:17:46.880><c> in</c><01:17:47.040><c> a</c><01:17:47.199><c> way</c><01:17:47.280><c> that</c><01:17:47.600><c> like</c>

right? You know, in a way that like there's<01:17:47.920><c> a</c><01:17:48.159><c> 100</c><01:17:48.719><c> PE</c><01:17:49.120><c> firms</c><01:17:49.360><c> that</c><01:17:49.600><c> want</c><01:17:49.679><c> to</c><01:17:49.760><c> buy</c> there's a 100 PE firms that want to buy your<01:17:50.080><c> shitty</c><01:17:50.400><c> B2B</c><01:17:50.880><c> company,</c><01:17:51.440><c> but</c><01:17:51.679><c> no</c><01:17:51.840><c> one</c><01:17:51.920><c> was</c> your shitty B2B company, but no one was

touching<01:17:52.560><c> consumer</c><01:17:52.960><c> assets.</c><01:17:53.440><c> So</c><01:17:53.520><c> I</c><01:17:53.679><c> think</c><01:17:53.920><c> a</c> touching consumer assets. So I think a little<01:17:54.239><c> bit</c><01:17:54.480><c> they're</c><01:17:54.640><c> getting</c><01:17:54.880><c> the</c><01:17:55.120><c> premium</c> little bit they're getting the premium for<01:17:55.920><c> being</c><01:17:56.080><c> the</c><01:17:56.320><c> only</c><01:17:56.480><c> player</c><01:17:56.719><c> in</c><01:17:56.960><c> that</c><01:17:57.120><c> town.</c>

for being the only player in that town. But<01:17:58.159><c> on</c><01:17:58.320><c> the</c><01:17:58.400><c> B2B</c><01:17:58.880><c> side,</c><01:17:59.199><c> the</c><01:17:59.520><c> interesting</c> But on the B2B side, the interesting question<01:18:00.400><c> now,</c><01:18:00.640><c> let</c><01:18:00.800><c> me</c><01:18:00.960><c> put</c><01:18:01.120><c> it</c><01:18:01.280><c> back</c><01:18:01.360><c> at</c><01:18:01.520><c> you</c> question now, let me put it back at you Jason.<01:18:03.199><c> Do</c><01:18:03.440><c> you</c><01:18:03.600><c> think</c><01:18:03.920><c> at</c><01:18:04.239><c> 3x</c><01:18:05.040><c> run</c><01:18:05.280><c> rate</c>

Jason. Do you think at 3x run rate revenues<01:18:06.159><c> for</c><01:18:06.480><c> a</c><01:18:06.719><c> constellation</c><01:18:08.080><c> which</c><01:18:08.320><c> is</c><01:18:08.400><c> a</c> revenues for a constellation which is a buy<01:18:09.040><c> r</c><01:18:09.679><c> cash</c><01:18:09.920><c> flow</c><01:18:10.800><c> business</c><01:18:11.520><c> buying</c><01:18:11.920><c> preai</c> buy r cash flow business buying preai business<01:18:12.880><c> do</c><01:18:13.040><c> you</c><01:18:13.120><c> think</c><01:18:13.199><c> that's</c><01:18:13.360><c> a</c><01:18:13.520><c> good</c><01:18:13.679><c> bet</c>

business do you think that's a good bet or<01:18:14.159><c> do</c><01:18:14.239><c> you</c><01:18:14.400><c> think</c><01:18:14.560><c> that's</c><01:18:15.520><c> fairly</c><01:18:16.000><c> valued</c> or do you think that's fairly valued dirt<01:18:17.059><c> [snorts]</c><01:18:17.280><c> cheap</c><01:18:17.760><c> going</c><01:18:18.000><c> to</c><01:18:18.159><c> zero</c><01:18:18.400><c> from</c> dirt [snorts] cheap going to zero from here?<01:18:18.800><c> How</c><01:18:18.960><c> do</c><01:18:19.040><c> you</c><01:18:19.120><c> think</c><01:18:19.199><c> about</c><01:18:19.360><c> that?</c>

here? How do you think about that? >> Again<01:18:20.159><c> I</c><01:18:20.320><c> don't</c><01:18:20.400><c> want</c><01:18:20.480><c> to</c><01:18:20.560><c> pick</c><01:18:20.719><c> on</c><01:18:20.960><c> touch</c> >> Again I don't want to pick on touch beastro<01:18:21.920><c> but</c><01:18:22.159><c> I</c><01:18:22.320><c> think</c><01:18:22.400><c> in</c><01:18:22.560><c> the</c><01:18:22.640><c> agentic</c><01:18:23.199><c> world</c> beastro but I think in the agentic world they<01:18:23.679><c> can't</c><01:18:23.920><c> be</c><01:18:24.080><c> turned</c><01:18:24.320><c> around</c><01:18:24.880><c> unless</c><01:18:25.440><c> you</c>

they can't be turned around unless you have<01:18:26.800><c> an</c><01:18:27.040><c> incredible</c><01:18:27.679><c> new</c><01:18:28.000><c> bending</c><01:18:28.480><c> spoons</c> have an incredible new bending spoons leader<01:18:29.360><c> that</c><01:18:29.520><c> wants</c><01:18:29.760><c> to</c><01:18:29.920><c> do</c><01:18:30.080><c> it.</c><01:18:30.960><c> um</c><01:18:31.199><c> you</c><01:18:31.440><c> you</c> leader that wants to do it. um you you there<01:18:32.239><c> they</c><01:18:32.560><c> have</c><01:18:32.719><c> sticky</c><01:18:33.120><c> revenue,</c><01:18:33.600><c> right?</c>

there they have sticky revenue, right? Anything<01:18:34.080><c> with</c><01:18:34.239><c> POS</c><01:18:34.719><c> has</c><01:18:34.880><c> sticky</c><01:18:35.280><c> revenue</c> Anything with POS has sticky revenue because<01:18:36.000><c> it's</c><01:18:36.239><c> it's</c><01:18:36.640><c> work,</c><01:18:37.120><c> right?</c><01:18:37.840><c> But</c><01:18:38.000><c> it</c><01:18:38.159><c> it</c> because it's it's work, right? But it it is<01:18:38.640><c> terminal</c><01:18:39.040><c> in</c><01:18:39.199><c> the</c><01:18:39.360><c> AIH,</c><01:18:40.000><c> right?</c><01:18:40.320><c> And</c><01:18:40.560><c> so</c>

is terminal in the AIH, right? And so it's<01:18:41.440><c> nothing</c><01:18:41.679><c> new.</c><01:18:42.000><c> This</c><01:18:42.159><c> is</c><01:18:42.239><c> just</c><01:18:42.400><c> a</c><01:18:42.880><c> a</c><01:18:43.760><c> a</c> it's nothing new. This is just a a a crisp<01:18:44.480><c> case</c><01:18:44.719><c> study.</c> crisp case study. >> But<01:18:45.360><c> do</c><01:18:45.520><c> you</c><01:18:45.600><c> think</c><01:18:45.760><c> I</c><01:18:46.000><c> agree</c> >> But do you think I agree

Dutch<01:18:47.920><c> beast</c><01:18:48.239><c> was</c><01:18:48.320><c> a</c><01:18:48.480><c> given?</c><01:18:48.880><c> The</c><01:18:49.120><c> interesting</c> Dutch beast was a given? The interesting thing<01:18:49.600><c> is</c><01:18:50.000><c> can</c><01:18:50.400><c> constellation</c><01:18:51.199><c> like</c><01:18:51.440><c> at</c><01:18:51.920><c> 3x</c> thing is can constellation like at 3x revenues<01:18:52.960><c> it's</c><01:18:53.199><c> probably</c><01:18:53.679><c> I</c><01:18:53.840><c> don't</c><01:18:53.920><c> know</c><01:18:54.159><c> 20</c>

revenues it's probably I don't know 20 it's<01:18:54.960><c> probably</c><01:18:55.360><c> trading</c><01:18:55.760><c> at</c><01:18:56.480><c> uh</c><01:18:56.880><c> 20.3.</c> it's probably trading at uh 20.3. Yeah,<01:18:58.800><c> I</c><01:18:58.960><c> don't</c><01:18:59.360><c> um</c><01:19:00.320><c> 12</c><01:19:00.719><c> 13x</c><01:19:01.520><c> cash</c><01:19:01.760><c> flow.</c><01:19:02.480><c> You</c> Yeah, I don't um 12 13x cash flow. You know,<01:19:02.880><c> Salesforce</c><01:19:03.360><c> is</c><01:19:03.520><c> below</c><01:19:03.760><c> 10x</c><01:19:04.239><c> forecast</c>

know, Salesforce is below 10x forecast cash<01:19:04.880><c> flow.</c><01:19:05.199><c> Now,</c><01:19:05.440><c> these</c><01:19:05.760><c> guys</c><01:19:05.920><c> are</c><01:19:06.080><c> really</c> cash flow. Now, these guys are really forecasting<01:19:06.960><c> these</c><01:19:07.199><c> kind</c><01:19:07.360><c> of</c><01:19:07.520><c> companies</c> forecasting these kind of companies don't<01:19:08.400><c> last</c><01:19:08.640><c> 10</c><01:19:08.880><c> years</c><01:19:09.120><c> is</c><01:19:09.280><c> what</c><01:19:09.440><c> they're</c>

don't last 10 years is what they're effectively<01:19:10.080><c> saying.</c><01:19:10.560><c> That</c><01:19:10.800><c> the</c><01:19:10.960><c> revenue</c><01:19:11.360><c> and</c> effectively saying. That the revenue and >> I<01:19:11.840><c> don't</c><01:19:11.920><c> think</c><01:19:12.080><c> they</c><01:19:12.239><c> do.</c> >> I don't think they do. >> You<01:19:13.280><c> don't.</c><01:19:13.679><c> Interesting.</c><01:19:14.080><c> That's</c><01:19:14.239><c> a</c><01:19:14.320><c> big</c>

>> You don't. Interesting. That's a big >> I<01:19:14.719><c> think</c><01:19:14.800><c> when</c><01:19:14.880><c> the</c><01:19:15.040><c> renewals</c><01:19:15.440><c> come,</c><01:19:15.679><c> they</c><01:19:15.840><c> all</c> >> I think when the renewals come, they all they<01:19:16.400><c> they</c><01:19:16.560><c> all</c><01:19:16.719><c> they</c><01:19:16.880><c> all</c><01:19:17.120><c> they</c><01:19:17.280><c> all</c><01:19:17.440><c> just</c><01:19:17.600><c> die</c>

they they all they all they all just die like<01:19:18.000><c> Marquetto.</c><01:19:18.560><c> They're</c><01:19:18.719><c> just</c><01:19:18.880><c> all</c><01:19:19.040><c> going</c> like Marquetto. They're just all going to<01:19:19.280><c> die.</c> to die. >> If<01:19:20.000><c> you</c><01:19:20.159><c> don't</c><01:19:20.320><c> have,</c><01:19:20.480><c> you</c><01:19:20.640><c> know,</c><01:19:20.880><c> interesting</c> >> If you don't have, you know, interesting if<01:19:21.520><c> you</c><01:19:21.679><c> don't</c><01:19:21.840><c> have</c><01:19:22.000><c> the</c><01:19:22.239><c> new</c><01:19:22.400><c> revenue,</c><01:19:22.800><c> you</c>

if you don't have the new revenue, you really<01:19:23.199><c> are</c><01:19:23.360><c> toast.</c> really are toast. >> I<01:19:24.880><c> think</c><01:19:25.040><c> listen,</c><01:19:25.280><c> it's</c><01:19:25.440><c> just</c><01:19:25.600><c> one</c><01:19:25.760><c> because</c> >> I think listen, it's just one because I'm<01:19:26.080><c> close</c><01:19:26.239><c> to</c><01:19:26.400><c> it</c><01:19:26.640><c> for</c><01:19:26.800><c> fun.</c><01:19:27.199><c> I</c><01:19:27.520><c> was</c><01:19:27.600><c> also</c><01:19:27.760><c> one</c>

I'm close to it for fun. I was also one of<01:19:28.000><c> the</c><01:19:28.080><c> first</c><01:19:28.320><c> 10</c><01:19:28.480><c> customers.</c><01:19:29.040><c> I'm</c><01:19:29.280><c> just</c> of the first 10 customers. I'm just watching<01:19:29.760><c> Marquetto</c><01:19:30.320><c> which</c><01:19:30.480><c> Adobe</c><01:19:30.880><c> bot</c><01:19:31.280><c> it</c><01:19:31.600><c> if</c> watching Marquetto which Adobe bot it if you<01:19:32.000><c> if</c><01:19:32.400><c> just</c><01:19:32.560><c> because</c><01:19:32.800><c> I</c><01:19:33.280><c> I'</c><01:19:33.600><c> I've</c><01:19:33.840><c> I've</c><01:19:34.080><c> used</c>

you if just because I I' I've I've used it<01:19:34.320><c> as</c><01:19:34.400><c> a</c><01:19:34.560><c> case</c><01:19:34.719><c> study</c><01:19:34.960><c> but</c><01:19:35.120><c> now</c><01:19:35.280><c> I'm</c><01:19:35.440><c> connected</c> it as a case study but now I'm connected to<01:19:36.000><c> so</c><01:19:36.159><c> many</c><01:19:36.320><c> folks</c><01:19:36.480><c> there.</c><01:19:36.719><c> It</c><01:19:36.960><c> is</c><01:19:37.120><c> going</c><01:19:37.280><c> to</c> to so many folks there. It is going to

zero.<01:19:38.159><c> It</c><01:19:38.400><c> is</c><01:19:38.560><c> but</c><01:19:38.800><c> it</c><01:19:38.960><c> is</c><01:19:39.040><c> one</c><01:19:39.199><c> of</c><01:19:39.280><c> the</c><01:19:39.440><c> slowest</c> zero. It is but it is one of the slowest decays<01:19:40.239><c> you</c><01:19:40.400><c> can</c><01:19:40.560><c> get</c><01:19:40.880><c> right</c><01:19:41.360><c> because</c><01:19:41.760><c> moving</c> decays you can get right because moving off<01:19:42.719><c> moving</c><01:19:43.120><c> off</c><01:19:43.679><c> a</c><01:19:43.920><c> marketing</c><01:19:44.320><c> automation</c>

off moving off a marketing automation system<01:19:44.960><c> in</c><01:19:45.120><c> the</c><01:19:45.280><c> enterprise</c><01:19:45.600><c> is</c><01:19:45.920><c> very</c><01:19:46.239><c> slow</c> system in the enterprise is very slow but<01:19:46.960><c> it</c><01:19:47.120><c> is</c><01:19:47.360><c> without</c><01:19:47.760><c> question</c><01:19:48.239><c> going</c><01:19:48.640><c> to</c><01:19:48.719><c> to</c> but it is without question going to to zero.<01:19:49.280><c> There</c><01:19:49.440><c> are</c><01:19:49.600><c> no</c><01:19:49.760><c> net</c><01:19:50.000><c> new</c><01:19:50.239><c> logos</c><01:19:50.880><c> and</c>

zero. There are no net new logos and everyone<01:19:51.600><c> hates</c><01:19:51.920><c> it</c><01:19:52.320><c> and</c><01:19:52.560><c> they</c><01:19:52.719><c> just</c><01:19:52.960><c> raised</c> everyone hates it and they just raised prices<01:19:53.679><c> again</c><01:19:54.000><c> on</c><01:19:54.239><c> us</c><01:19:54.640><c> 20%.</c><01:19:55.600><c> For</c><01:19:56.239><c> while</c> prices again on us 20%. For while deprecating<01:19:57.040><c> the</c><01:19:57.280><c> API</c><01:19:57.920><c> so</c><01:19:58.159><c> we're</c><01:19:58.400><c> finally</c>

deprecating the API so we're finally leaving.<01:19:59.120><c> Salesforce</c><01:19:59.600><c> did</c><01:19:59.760><c> an</c><01:19:59.920><c> LLM</c><01:20:00.320><c> lift.</c><01:20:00.560><c> It</c> leaving. Salesforce did an LLM lift. It took<01:20:00.880><c> one</c><01:20:01.040><c> day</c><01:20:01.199><c> to</c><01:20:01.520><c> leave.</c><01:20:01.920><c> It</c><01:20:02.159><c> used</c><01:20:02.320><c> to</c><01:20:02.400><c> be</c><01:20:02.560><c> a</c> took one day to leave. It used to be a

year.<01:20:03.280><c> Now</c><01:20:03.440><c> it's</c><01:20:03.679><c> one</c><01:20:03.920><c> day.</c><01:20:04.719><c> So</c><01:20:04.880><c> I</c><01:20:05.120><c> just</c><01:20:05.280><c> think</c> year. Now it's one day. So I just think all<01:20:05.679><c> of</c><01:20:05.840><c> these</c><01:20:06.080><c> ones</c><01:20:06.400><c> are</c><01:20:06.800><c> and</c><01:20:06.960><c> I</c><01:20:07.120><c> don't</c><01:20:07.280><c> I</c> all of these ones are and I don't I don't<01:20:07.600><c> know</c><01:20:07.679><c> what</c><01:20:07.920><c> constellation</c><01:20:08.480><c> does</c><01:20:08.560><c> with</c>

don't know what constellation does with them<01:20:08.880><c> if</c><01:20:09.040><c> they're</c><01:20:09.120><c> in</c><01:20:09.280><c> terminal</c><01:20:09.600><c> decay.</c><01:20:09.840><c> I</c> them if they're in terminal decay. I mean<01:20:10.080><c> I</c><01:20:10.239><c> guess</c><01:20:10.320><c> if</c><01:20:10.480><c> you</c><01:20:10.560><c> have</c><01:20:10.719><c> 40%</c><01:20:11.679><c> free</c><01:20:12.000><c> cash</c> mean I guess if you have 40% free cash flow,<01:20:12.480><c> it's</c><01:20:12.640><c> just</c><01:20:12.800><c> a</c><01:20:12.960><c> spreadsheet.</c><01:20:13.600><c> But</c><01:20:13.760><c> but</c>

flow, it's just a spreadsheet. But but it's<01:20:14.719><c> the</c><01:20:14.880><c> terminal</c><01:20:15.280><c> decay</c><01:20:15.600><c> is</c><01:20:15.920><c> accelerating</c> it's the terminal decay is accelerating faster<01:20:17.040><c> than</c><01:20:17.280><c> I</c><01:20:17.360><c> would</c><01:20:17.520><c> have</c><01:20:17.600><c> thought</c><01:20:17.760><c> when</c><01:20:17.920><c> we</c> faster than I would have thought when we started<01:20:18.320><c> this</c><01:20:18.480><c> podcast</c><01:20:18.880><c> for</c><01:20:19.040><c> sure.</c>

started this podcast for sure. >> That's<01:20:19.600><c> the</c><01:20:19.679><c> sentence.</c><01:20:20.159><c> So</c><01:20:20.800><c> So</c><01:20:21.199><c> and</c><01:20:21.360><c> that's</c> >> That's the sentence. So So and that's helpful<01:20:21.920><c> that</c><01:20:22.320><c> you're</c><01:20:22.640><c> right</c><01:20:22.800><c> that</c><01:20:23.120><c> it</c><01:20:23.280><c> may</c> helpful that you're right that it may well<01:20:23.600><c> be</c><01:20:23.760><c> it's</c><01:20:23.920><c> priced</c><01:20:24.239><c> correctly</c><01:20:24.800><c> because</c>

well be it's priced correctly because the<01:20:25.600><c> the</c><01:20:26.000><c> fact</c><01:20:26.159><c> is</c><01:20:27.280><c> all</c><01:20:27.520><c> these</c><01:20:27.840><c> rollups</c><01:20:28.560><c> had</c> the the fact is all these rollups had terminal<01:20:29.199><c> decay</c><01:20:29.520><c> in</c><01:20:29.679><c> the</c><01:20:29.840><c> future.</c><01:20:30.159><c> But</c><01:20:30.239><c> your</c> terminal decay in the future. But your comment<01:20:30.719><c> is</c><01:20:30.880><c> correct.</c><01:20:31.199><c> If</c><01:20:31.360><c> the</c><01:20:31.600><c> speed</c><01:20:31.760><c> of</c>

comment is correct. If the speed of terminal<01:20:32.320><c> decay</c><01:20:33.520><c> accelerates</c><01:20:34.610><c> [snorts]</c><01:20:34.719><c> then</c> terminal decay accelerates [snorts] then you're<01:20:35.120><c> right.</c><01:20:35.280><c> Then</c><01:20:35.440><c> the</c><01:20:35.600><c> spreadsheet</c><01:20:35.920><c> blows</c> you're right. Then the spreadsheet blows up.<01:20:36.480><c> Interesting.</c><01:20:36.880><c> I'm</c><01:20:37.120><c> going</c><01:20:37.199><c> to</c><01:20:37.440><c> look</c><01:20:37.600><c> at</c>

up. Interesting. I'm going to look at those<01:20:37.920><c> numbers</c><01:20:38.239><c> again.</c> those numbers again. >> Sorry.<01:20:39.199><c> issue</c><01:20:39.520><c> while</c><01:20:39.679><c> we</c><01:20:39.840><c> were</c><01:20:40.000><c> recording</c> >> Sorry. issue while we were recording final<01:20:40.880><c> one</c><01:20:41.120><c> I</c><01:20:41.360><c> think</c><01:20:41.760><c> but</c><01:20:41.920><c> and</c><01:20:42.159><c> it</c><01:20:42.480><c> it</c><01:20:42.640><c> may</c><01:20:42.719><c> not</c>

final one I think but and it it may not be<01:20:42.960><c> one</c><01:20:43.199><c> for</c><01:20:43.360><c> a</c><01:20:43.520><c> discussion</c><01:20:43.920><c> or</c><01:20:44.159><c> a</c> be one for a discussion or a continuation<01:20:44.800><c> of</c><01:20:44.960><c> what</c><01:20:45.120><c> we</c><01:20:45.360><c> discussed</c><01:20:45.679><c> before</c> continuation of what we discussed before about<01:20:46.080><c> Menllo</c><01:20:46.560><c> and</c><01:20:46.719><c> their</c><01:20:46.800><c> fund</c><01:20:47.040><c> size</c><01:20:47.440><c> but</c>

about Menllo and their fund size but Greylock<01:20:48.239><c> announced</c><01:20:48.560><c> that</c><01:20:48.719><c> they</c><01:20:49.040><c> have</c><01:20:49.280><c> raised</c> Greylock announced that they have raised their<01:20:49.760><c> newest</c><01:20:50.159><c> fund</c><01:20:50.640><c> Greylock</c><01:20:51.280><c> 18</c><01:20:52.080><c> I</c><01:20:52.239><c> love</c> their newest fund Greylock 18 I love Greylock<01:20:53.199><c> 18</c><01:20:54.080><c> uh</c><01:20:54.320><c> phenomenal</c><01:20:54.880><c> firm</c>

Greylock 18 uh phenomenal firm throughout<01:20:55.920><c> Vintages</c><01:20:56.640><c> and</c><01:20:56.880><c> really</c> throughout Vintages and really unparalleled<01:20:58.159><c> track</c><01:20:58.560><c> across</c><01:20:58.960><c> so</c><01:20:59.199><c> many</c> unparalleled track across so many different<01:20:59.760><c> years</c><01:21:00.320><c> but</c><01:21:00.560><c> a$1.5</c><01:21:01.360><c> billion</c><01:21:01.920><c> fund</c><01:21:02.480><c> I</c> different years but a$1.5 billion fund I

thought<01:21:03.199><c> similar</c><01:21:03.520><c> to</c><01:21:03.600><c> the</c><01:21:03.760><c> Manllo</c><01:21:04.239><c> style</c> thought similar to the Manllo style could<01:21:04.800><c> have</c><01:21:04.960><c> raised</c><01:21:05.280><c> much</c><01:21:05.600><c> more</c><01:21:06.480><c> very</c> could have raised much more very disciplined<01:21:07.520><c> choice</c><01:21:07.840><c> on</c><01:21:08.239><c> one</c><01:21:09.040><c> billion</c><01:21:10.000><c> given</c> disciplined choice on one billion given

size<01:21:10.800><c> of</c><01:21:11.040><c> partnership.</c> size of partnership. >> When<01:21:11.760><c> was</c><01:21:11.840><c> the</c><01:21:12.000><c> last</c><01:21:12.159><c> fund</c><01:21:12.320><c> raise?</c> >> When was the last fund raise? >> Sorry, >> when<01:21:14.159><c> was</c><01:21:14.320><c> the</c><01:21:14.480><c> last</c><01:21:14.640><c> fund</c><01:21:14.960><c> raise?</c> >> when was the last fund raise? >> Two<01:21:15.840><c> and</c><01:21:15.920><c> a</c><01:21:16.080><c> half</c><01:21:16.239><c> years</c><01:21:16.400><c> ago.</c>

>> Two and a half years ago. >> Oh,<01:21:17.280><c> I</c><01:21:17.520><c> guess</c><01:21:17.600><c> that's</c><01:21:17.920><c> disciplined</c><01:21:18.400><c> then.</c> >> Oh, I guess that's disciplined then. >> Yeah.<01:21:19.760><c> No,</c><01:21:20.080><c> like</c><01:21:20.400><c> it</c><01:21:20.880><c> this</c><01:21:21.120><c> is</c><01:21:21.199><c> a</c><01:21:21.360><c> really</c> >> Yeah. No, like it this is a really disciplined<01:21:22.080><c> firm</c><01:21:22.400><c> again</c><01:21:22.719><c> with</c><01:21:23.120><c> a</c><01:21:23.440><c> broad</c>

disciplined firm again with a broad bunch<01:21:24.000><c> of</c><01:21:24.159><c> partners</c><01:21:24.560><c> on</c><01:21:24.719><c> a</c><01:21:25.040><c> capital</c><01:21:25.360><c> per</c> bunch of partners on a capital per partner<01:21:26.000><c> basis.</c><01:21:26.960><c> Like,</c> partner basis. Like, >> well,<01:21:27.440><c> look,</c><01:21:27.679><c> it</c><01:21:27.840><c> still</c><01:21:28.000><c> would</c><01:21:28.159><c> be</c><01:21:28.320><c> nice</c><01:21:28.560><c> to</c>

>> well, look, it still would be nice to get<01:21:28.880><c> into</c><01:21:29.120><c> carry</c><01:21:29.440><c> mode</c><01:21:29.679><c> faster.</c><01:21:30.320><c> As</c><01:21:30.560><c> great</c><01:21:30.640><c> as</c> get into carry mode faster. As great as a<01:21:31.120><c> mega</c><01:21:31.440><c> fund</c><01:21:31.679><c> is,</c><01:21:32.480><c> unless</c><01:21:33.120><c> you</c><01:21:33.360><c> know,</c><01:21:33.600><c> all</c> a mega fund is, unless you know, all things<01:21:34.080><c> being</c><01:21:34.320><c> equal,</c><01:21:34.560><c> it's</c><01:21:34.719><c> a</c><01:21:34.880><c> little</c><01:21:34.960><c> longer</c>

things being equal, it's a little longer to<01:21:35.360><c> get</c><01:21:35.440><c> those</c><01:21:35.679><c> carry</c><01:21:36.000><c> checks.</c><01:21:36.640><c> And</c><01:21:36.880><c> and</c><01:21:37.040><c> to</c> to get those carry checks. And and to state<01:21:37.440><c> the</c><01:21:37.600><c> obvious,</c><01:21:38.000><c> those</c><01:21:38.239><c> are</c><01:21:38.400><c> different</c> state the obvious, those are different things,<01:21:39.600><c> right?</c><01:21:40.080><c> Are</c><01:21:40.239><c> you</c><01:21:40.480><c> optimizing</c><01:21:41.040><c> for</c>

things, right? Are you optimizing for the<01:21:41.440><c> office</c><01:21:41.920><c> or</c><01:21:42.159><c> are</c><01:21:42.320><c> you</c><01:21:42.480><c> optimizing</c><01:21:42.960><c> for</c><01:21:43.120><c> the</c> the office or are you optimizing for the carry<01:21:43.600><c> check?</c><01:21:44.239><c> Let's</c><01:21:44.560><c> be</c><01:21:44.800><c> clear.</c><01:21:45.600><c> I</c><01:21:45.760><c> want</c><01:21:45.920><c> to</c> carry check? Let's be clear. I want to say<01:21:46.159><c> this,</c><01:21:46.480><c> the</c><01:21:46.719><c> billion</c><01:21:47.040><c> dollar</c><01:21:47.360><c> plus</c><01:21:47.679><c> funds</c>

say this, the billion dollar plus funds have<01:21:48.239><c> been</c><01:21:48.400><c> able</c><01:21:48.560><c> to</c><01:21:48.800><c> make</c><01:21:48.960><c> it</c><01:21:49.120><c> work</c><01:21:49.280><c> in</c><01:21:49.520><c> this</c> have been able to make it work in this market<01:21:50.000><c> because</c><01:21:50.239><c> there's</c><01:21:50.480><c> been</c><01:21:50.719><c> places</c><01:21:50.960><c> to</c> market because there's been places to put<01:21:51.360><c> the</c><01:21:51.520><c> money.</c><01:21:51.760><c> Going</c><01:21:52.080><c> right</c><01:21:52.239><c> back</c><01:21:52.400><c> to</c><01:21:52.480><c> it.</c>

put the money. Going right back to it. So<01:21:53.120><c> I</c><01:21:54.400><c> I'm</c><01:21:54.719><c> not</c><01:21:54.960><c> going</c><01:21:55.040><c> to</c><01:21:55.120><c> be</c><01:21:55.199><c> a</c><01:21:55.360><c> skeptic.</c><01:21:55.760><c> You</c> So I I'm not going to be a skeptic. You you<01:21:56.159><c> can't</c><01:21:56.320><c> deny</c><01:21:56.639><c> a</c><01:21:56.800><c> fact.</c><01:21:57.120><c> As</c><01:21:57.600><c> Senator</c><01:21:58.000><c> Moy</c> you can't deny a fact. As Senator Moy

has<01:21:58.480><c> said,</c><01:21:58.719><c> you</c><01:21:58.880><c> can</c><01:21:58.960><c> have</c><01:21:59.120><c> different</c> has said, you can have different opinions,<01:21:59.760><c> but</c><01:22:00.000><c> you</c><01:22:00.159><c> have</c><01:22:00.239><c> to</c><01:22:00.400><c> have</c><01:22:00.480><c> the</c><01:22:00.719><c> same</c> opinions, but you have to have the same facts.<01:22:02.000><c> So</c><01:22:02.239><c> far,</c><01:22:02.560><c> those</c><01:22:02.800><c> big</c><01:22:03.040><c> ass</c><01:22:03.199><c> funds</c><01:22:03.600><c> have</c>

facts. So far, those big ass funds have worked<01:22:04.080><c> given</c><01:22:04.320><c> the</c><01:22:04.480><c> market</c><01:22:04.719><c> we've</c><01:22:04.960><c> been</c><01:22:05.120><c> in,</c> worked given the market we've been in, right?<01:22:05.679><c> But</c><01:22:05.920><c> Jason's</c><01:22:06.400><c> right.</c><01:22:06.719><c> All</c><01:22:06.800><c> other</c> right? But Jason's right. All other things<01:22:07.360><c> been</c><01:22:07.600><c> equal.</c><01:22:08.159><c> One</c><01:22:08.400><c> of</c><01:22:08.480><c> the</c><01:22:08.880><c> if</c><01:22:09.120><c> you</c>

things been equal. One of the if you know<01:22:09.440><c> you</c><01:22:09.600><c> can</c><01:22:09.760><c> raise</c><01:22:10.080><c> pretty</c><01:22:10.320><c> much</c> know you can raise pretty much indefinitely<01:22:11.360><c> because</c><01:22:11.679><c> you</c><01:22:11.920><c> have</c><01:22:12.000><c> a</c><01:22:12.239><c> track</c> indefinitely because you have a track record<01:22:12.800><c> of</c><01:22:12.960><c> 50</c><01:22:13.280><c> years</c><01:22:13.440><c> of</c><01:22:13.679><c> success.</c><01:22:14.400><c> Smaller</c>

record of 50 years of success. Smaller and<01:22:15.199><c> you</c><01:22:15.440><c> don't</c><01:22:15.600><c> want</c><01:22:15.679><c> to</c><01:22:15.840><c> play</c><01:22:16.080><c> in</c><01:22:16.239><c> the</c><01:22:16.400><c> super</c> and you don't want to play in the super late<01:22:17.199><c> stage</c><01:22:17.520><c> business</c><01:22:17.920><c> where</c><01:22:18.159><c> you</c><01:22:18.239><c> have</c><01:22:18.400><c> to</c> late stage business where you have to write<01:22:18.719><c> $200</c><01:22:19.040><c> million</c><01:22:19.600><c> checks.</c><01:22:20.239><c> Then</c><01:22:20.560><c> slightly</c>

write $200 million checks. Then slightly smaller<01:22:21.360><c> funds</c><01:22:21.679><c> raised</c><01:22:22.080><c> regularly</c><01:22:23.040><c> increases</c> smaller funds raised regularly increases the<01:22:23.840><c> probability</c><01:22:24.400><c> of</c><01:22:24.560><c> a</c><01:22:24.719><c> carry</c><01:22:25.040><c> distribution</c> the probability of a carry distribution on<01:22:25.679><c> a</c><01:22:26.320><c> before</c><01:22:26.639><c> you</c><01:22:26.800><c> got</c><01:22:27.040><c> grandchildren.</c>

on a before you got grandchildren. >> Yeah.<01:22:28.560><c> Yeah,</c><01:22:28.719><c> I</c><01:22:28.880><c> don't</c><01:22:28.880><c> know</c><01:22:28.960><c> if</c><01:22:29.040><c> it's</c><01:22:29.280><c> it</c> >> Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if it's it might<01:22:29.600><c> be</c><01:22:29.760><c> disciplined</c><01:22:30.159><c> and</c><01:22:30.400><c> I'm</c><01:22:30.639><c> sure</c><01:22:30.800><c> they</c> might be disciplined and I'm sure they have<01:22:31.040><c> plenty</c><01:22:31.280><c> of</c><01:22:31.360><c> annex</c><01:22:31.840><c> funds</c><01:22:32.000><c> and</c><01:22:32.239><c> SPVS</c><01:22:32.800><c> and</c>

have plenty of annex funds and SPVS and SS<01:22:33.520><c> and</c><01:22:33.760><c> triple</c><01:22:34.159><c> layered</c><01:22:34.719><c> quadruple</c><01:22:35.360><c> layered</c> SS and triple layered quadruple layered sources<01:22:36.320><c> of</c><01:22:36.560><c> capital</c><01:22:36.800><c> to</c><01:22:37.040><c> tap</c><01:22:37.280><c> into,</c><01:22:37.600><c> but</c><01:22:38.480><c> they</c> sources of capital to tap into, but they say<01:22:38.960><c> disciplined.</c><01:22:39.520><c> Listen,</c><01:22:39.760><c> if</c><01:22:39.920><c> you</c><01:22:40.080><c> can</c>

say disciplined. Listen, if you can raise<01:22:40.400><c> infinite</c><01:22:40.800><c> capital</c><01:22:41.120><c> and</c><01:22:41.360><c> you</c><01:22:41.520><c> don't</c> raise infinite capital and you don't have<01:22:41.760><c> a</c><01:22:41.920><c> massive</c><01:22:42.320><c> partnership,</c><01:22:43.440><c> I</c><01:22:43.600><c> want</c> have a massive partnership, I want [snorts]<01:22:43.760><c> to</c><01:22:43.840><c> deploy</c><01:22:44.080><c> it</c><01:22:44.159><c> in</c><01:22:44.400><c> 18</c><01:22:44.639><c> months.</c>

[snorts] to deploy it in 18 months. What's<01:22:45.120><c> the</c><01:22:45.280><c> amount</c><01:22:45.440><c> of</c><01:22:45.520><c> money</c><01:22:45.679><c> I</c><01:22:45.920><c> can</c><01:22:46.080><c> deploy</c> What's the amount of money I can deploy with<01:22:46.719><c> my</c><01:22:46.960><c> proper</c><01:22:47.280><c> reserve</c><01:22:47.600><c> models</c><01:22:47.920><c> at</c><01:22:48.080><c> 18</c> with my proper reserve models at 18 months<01:22:48.400><c> and</c><01:22:48.560><c> then</c><01:22:48.719><c> just</c><01:22:48.880><c> raise</c><01:22:49.040><c> another</c><01:22:49.360><c> fund?</c>

months and then just raise another fund? Like,<01:22:50.400><c> is</c><01:22:50.560><c> that</c><01:22:50.719><c> disciplined</c><01:22:51.199><c> or</c><01:22:51.360><c> is</c><01:22:51.520><c> that</c> Like, is that disciplined or is that just<01:22:52.000><c> how</c><01:22:52.159><c> you</c><01:22:52.320><c> should</c><01:22:52.480><c> run</c><01:22:52.639><c> your</c><01:22:52.800><c> business?</c><01:22:53.920><c> I</c> just how you should run your business? I [snorts]<01:22:54.159><c> mean,</c><01:22:54.239><c> I</c><01:22:54.400><c> would</c><01:22:54.560><c> say</c><01:22:54.719><c> two</c><01:22:54.880><c> and</c><01:22:54.960><c> a</c>

[snorts] mean, I would say two and a half<01:22:55.280><c> years.</c><01:22:55.679><c> You</c><01:22:55.840><c> I</c><01:22:56.000><c> mean,</c><01:22:56.400><c> two</c><01:22:56.560><c> and</c><01:22:56.639><c> a</c><01:22:56.719><c> half</c> half years. You I mean, two and a half to<01:22:57.040><c> three</c><01:22:57.280><c> years</c><01:22:57.679><c> would</c><01:22:57.920><c> be</c><01:22:58.000><c> more</c><01:22:58.239><c> the</c> to three years would be more the standard,<01:22:58.719><c> but</c><01:22:58.960><c> yes.</c>

standard, but yes. >> No,<01:22:59.440><c> man.</c><01:22:59.600><c> I</c><01:22:59.760><c> want</c><01:22:59.840><c> to</c><01:23:00.320><c> What</c><01:23:00.560><c> can</c><01:23:00.719><c> I</c><01:23:00.880><c> deploy?</c><01:23:01.600><c> I</c> >> No, man. I want to What can I deploy? I want<01:23:01.920><c> to</c><01:23:02.080><c> get</c><01:23:02.800><c> I</c><01:23:03.120><c> I</c><01:23:03.120><c> I</c><01:23:03.600><c> do</c><01:23:03.760><c> think</c><01:23:03.840><c> you</c><01:23:04.080><c> don't</c>

want to get I I I do think you don't make<01:23:04.320><c> the</c><01:23:04.560><c> most</c><01:23:04.719><c> money</c><01:23:04.880><c> if</c><01:23:05.040><c> you</c><01:23:05.199><c> wait</c><01:23:05.360><c> three</c> make the most money if you wait three years<01:23:05.679><c> to</c><01:23:05.840><c> deploy</c><01:23:06.080><c> your</c><01:23:06.239><c> fund.</c><01:23:06.480><c> You</c><01:23:06.639><c> make</c><01:23:06.719><c> the</c> years to deploy your fund. You make the most<01:23:06.960><c> money</c><01:23:07.199><c> if</c><01:23:07.360><c> you</c><01:23:07.600><c> can</c><01:23:08.239><c> uh</c><01:23:08.400><c> thoughtfully</c>

most money if you can uh thoughtfully deploy<01:23:09.120><c> it</c><01:23:09.280><c> in</c><01:23:09.520><c> 18</c><01:23:09.760><c> months,</c><01:23:10.159><c> right?</c><01:23:10.400><c> And</c><01:23:10.560><c> then</c> deploy it in 18 months, right? And then get<01:23:10.960><c> going</c><01:23:11.120><c> on</c><01:23:11.280><c> the</c><01:23:11.440><c> next</c><01:23:11.600><c> fund,</c><01:23:11.920><c> right?</c> get going on the next fund, right? >> You're<01:23:13.360><c> better</c><01:23:13.520><c> at</c><01:23:13.600><c> the</c><01:23:13.760><c> math</c><01:23:13.920><c> than</c><01:23:14.159><c> me.</c><01:23:14.400><c> But</c>

>> You're better at the math than me. But >> yeah,<01:23:15.280><c> as</c><01:23:15.520><c> they</c><01:23:15.760><c> say,</c><01:23:16.000><c> that</c><01:23:16.159><c> word</c> >> yeah, as they say, that word thoughtfully<01:23:16.880><c> is</c><01:23:17.040><c> do</c><01:23:17.280><c> is</c><01:23:17.440><c> very,</c><01:23:17.760><c> as</c><01:23:17.920><c> the</c><01:23:18.080><c> LM</c> thoughtfully is do is very, as the LM would<01:23:18.639><c> say,</c><01:23:18.800><c> it's</c><01:23:19.040><c> very</c><01:23:19.280><c> loadbearing</c><01:23:20.000><c> in</c><01:23:20.239><c> that</c>

would say, it's very loadbearing in that sense.<01:23:20.880><c> Jason.</c> sense. Jason. >> Well,<01:23:22.080><c> I</c><01:23:22.239><c> guess</c><01:23:22.400><c> just</c><01:23:22.560><c> to</c><01:23:22.719><c> Perry's</c><01:23:23.040><c> point,</c><01:23:23.280><c> I</c> >> Well, I guess just to Perry's point, I just<01:23:23.600><c> don't</c><01:23:23.760><c> think</c><01:23:23.840><c> that</c><01:23:24.080><c> this</c><01:23:24.320><c> is</c><01:23:25.120><c> um</c><01:23:25.440><c> what</c>

just don't think that this is um what was<01:23:25.760><c> the</c><01:23:25.840><c> point</c><01:23:26.000><c> you</c><01:23:26.159><c> used</c><01:23:26.639><c> term</c><01:23:26.880><c> you</c><01:23:26.960><c> used?</c> was the point you used term you used? Discipline,<01:23:27.600><c> Terry.</c> Discipline, Terry. >> This<01:23:28.719><c> is</c><01:23:29.040><c> one</c><01:23:29.199><c> of</c><01:23:29.280><c> these</c><01:23:29.520><c> things</c><01:23:29.600><c> we</c> >> This is one of these things we

manufacture<01:23:30.719><c> like</c><01:23:31.120><c> how</c><01:23:31.360><c> wonderful</c><01:23:31.679><c> it</c><01:23:31.840><c> is</c> manufacture like how wonderful it is benchmark<01:23:32.480><c> as</c><01:23:32.639><c> a</c><01:23:32.800><c> flat</c><01:23:32.960><c> partnership.</c><01:23:33.440><c> I</c><01:23:33.600><c> mean,</c> benchmark as a flat partnership. I mean, who<01:23:33.920><c> cares,</c><01:23:34.560><c> right?</c><01:23:34.880><c> It's</c><01:23:35.120><c> not</c><01:23:35.280><c> disciplined.</c>

who cares, right? It's not disciplined. It's<01:23:36.000><c> optimized</c><01:23:36.400><c> to</c><01:23:36.639><c> make</c><01:23:36.719><c> the</c><01:23:36.960><c> most</c><01:23:37.120><c> money.</c> It's optimized to make the most money. >> It's<01:23:38.239><c> not</c><01:23:38.480><c> disciplined.</c><01:23:39.040><c> The</c><01:23:39.280><c> guys</c><01:23:39.440><c> at</c> >> It's not disciplined. The guys at Greylock<01:23:40.159><c> didn't</c><01:23:40.320><c> sit</c><01:23:40.480><c> back</c><01:23:40.639><c> and</c><01:23:40.800><c> say,</c><01:23:40.960><c> you</c>

Greylock didn't sit back and say, you know,<01:23:41.520><c> we</c><01:23:41.760><c> could</c><01:23:41.920><c> make</c><01:23:42.159><c> twice</c><01:23:42.480><c> as</c><01:23:42.719><c> much</c><01:23:42.880><c> money,</c> know, we could make twice as much money, three<01:23:43.440><c> times</c><01:23:43.679><c> as</c><01:23:43.920><c> much</c><01:23:44.080><c> money</c><01:23:44.320><c> with</c><01:23:44.800><c> fun,</c><01:23:45.120><c> but</c> three times as much money with fun, but we'd<01:23:45.440><c> like</c><01:23:45.600><c> to</c><01:23:45.840><c> we'd</c><01:23:46.080><c> like</c><01:23:46.239><c> to</c><01:23:46.400><c> make</c><01:23:46.560><c> half</c><01:23:46.800><c> as</c>

we'd like to we'd like to make half as much<01:23:47.280><c> money</c><01:23:47.440><c> as</c><01:23:47.679><c> our</c><01:23:47.840><c> goal</c><01:23:48.000><c> for</c><01:23:48.159><c> the</c><01:23:48.320><c> next</c> much money as our goal for the next fund,<01:23:48.880><c> right?</c><01:23:49.360><c> It</c><01:23:49.520><c> would</c><01:23:49.600><c> just</c><01:23:50.000><c> it's</c><01:23:50.239><c> just</c> fund, right? It would just it's just nicer<01:23:50.800><c> for</c><01:23:50.960><c> everybody</c><01:23:51.199><c> if</c><01:23:51.440><c> we</c><01:23:51.600><c> make</c><01:23:51.760><c> less</c>

nicer for everybody if we make less money<01:23:52.400><c> right</c> money right >> you<01:23:53.040><c> can</c><01:23:53.120><c> be</c><01:23:53.280><c> Andre</c><01:23:54.000><c> you</c><01:23:54.080><c> can</c><01:23:54.159><c> be</c><01:23:54.320><c> light</c> >> you can be Andre you can be light speeded<01:23:54.960><c> you</c><01:23:55.120><c> can</c><01:23:55.199><c> be</c><01:23:55.360><c> GC</c><01:23:55.920><c> you</c><01:23:56.000><c> can</c><01:23:56.080><c> be</c><01:23:56.239><c> thrive</c>

speeded you can be GC you can be thrive where<01:23:56.800><c> you</c><01:23:56.960><c> are</c><01:23:57.120><c> building</c><01:23:57.360><c> a</c><01:23:57.679><c> multi</c> where you are building a multi multi-billion<01:23:58.719><c> dollar</c><01:23:59.120><c> platform</c><01:24:00.239><c> or</c><01:24:00.480><c> you</c><01:24:00.719><c> can</c> multi-billion dollar platform or you can be<01:24:01.040><c> a</c><01:24:01.280><c> Maritech</c><01:24:02.159><c> a</c><01:24:02.639><c> greylock</c><01:24:03.440><c> a</c><01:24:03.840><c> manlow</c><01:24:04.400><c> where</c>

be a Maritech a greylock a manlow where you<01:24:04.880><c> are</c><01:24:05.040><c> maybe</c><01:24:05.360><c> not</c><01:24:05.679><c> building</c><01:24:06.080><c> that</c><01:24:06.560><c> platform</c> you are maybe not building that platform to<01:24:07.360><c> IP</c> to IP >> you're<01:24:08.000><c> still</c><01:24:08.239><c> raising</c><01:24:08.639><c> in</c><01:24:08.880><c> the</c><01:24:08.960><c> case</c><01:24:09.199><c> of</c><01:24:10.159><c> but</c> >> you're still raising in the case of but

I<01:24:10.480><c> think</c><01:24:10.560><c> the</c><01:24:10.719><c> truth</c><01:24:10.880><c> is</c><01:24:11.120><c> this</c><01:24:11.360><c> it</c><01:24:11.520><c> goes</c><01:24:11.679><c> back</c> I think the truth is this it goes back to<01:24:11.920><c> that</c><01:24:12.080><c> remember</c><01:24:12.320><c> we</c><01:24:12.560><c> talk</c><01:24:12.639><c> about</c><01:24:12.719><c> the</c><01:24:12.880><c> three</c> to that remember we talk about the three things<01:24:13.280><c> the</c><01:24:13.440><c> secular</c><01:24:13.840><c> the</c><01:24:13.920><c> secular</c><01:24:14.239><c> and</c><01:24:14.400><c> the</c>

things the secular the secular and the crow<01:24:15.040><c> I</c><01:24:15.280><c> think</c><01:24:15.360><c> you</c><01:24:15.600><c> should</c><01:24:15.760><c> raise</c><01:24:16.000><c> the</c><01:24:16.239><c> money</c> crow I think you should raise the money that<01:24:16.639><c> allows</c><01:24:16.880><c> you</c><01:24:17.040><c> to</c><01:24:17.199><c> pursue</c><01:24:17.520><c> your</c><01:24:17.840><c> business</c> that allows you to pursue your business provide<01:24:19.280><c> your</c><01:24:19.440><c> business</c><01:24:19.679><c> is</c><01:24:19.920><c> still</c>

provide your business is still strategically<01:24:20.639><c> relevant,</c><01:24:21.600><c> right?</c><01:24:22.320><c> And</c><01:24:22.480><c> I</c> strategically relevant, right? And I think<01:24:24.000><c> um</c><01:24:24.800><c> and</c><01:24:25.040><c> you</c><01:24:25.280><c> shouldn't</c><01:24:25.600><c> raise</c><01:24:25.920><c> amount</c> think um and you shouldn't raise amount of<01:24:26.320><c> money</c><01:24:26.480><c> that's</c><01:24:26.719><c> dictated</c><01:24:27.199><c> by</c><01:24:27.360><c> what</c><01:24:27.600><c> other</c>

of money that's dictated by what other people<01:24:27.920><c> are</c><01:24:28.080><c> doing,</c><01:24:28.960><c> right?</c><01:24:29.600><c> Except</c><01:24:29.920><c> to</c><01:24:30.080><c> the</c> people are doing, right? Except to the extent<01:24:30.480><c> that</c><01:24:30.719><c> perceptions</c><01:24:31.280><c> change.</c><01:24:31.600><c> And</c><01:24:31.760><c> I</c> extent that perceptions change. And I think<01:24:32.880><c> um</c><01:24:33.280><c> that's</c><01:24:33.520><c> what</c><01:24:33.679><c> they're</c><01:24:33.920><c> doing.</c>

think um that's what they're doing. They're<01:24:34.400><c> saying,</c><01:24:34.800><c> you</c><01:24:34.960><c> know,</c><01:24:35.280><c> to</c><01:24:35.520><c> do</c><01:24:35.679><c> a</c> They're saying, you know, to do a different<01:24:36.080><c> business,</c><01:24:36.400><c> if</c><01:24:36.560><c> you</c><01:24:36.719><c> decided</c><01:24:37.199><c> I</c> different business, if you decided I want<01:24:37.520><c> to</c><01:24:37.600><c> be</c><01:24:37.760><c> in</c><01:24:37.920><c> that</c><01:24:38.400><c> latestage</c>

want to be in that latestage multiplatform<01:24:39.600><c> thing,</c><01:24:39.760><c> then</c><01:24:39.920><c> you</c><01:24:40.080><c> raise</c><01:24:40.320><c> 5</c> multiplatform thing, then you raise 5 billion.<01:24:40.800><c> If</c><01:24:40.960><c> you</c><01:24:41.040><c> want</c><01:24:41.199><c> to</c><01:24:41.280><c> be</c><01:24:41.440><c> in</c><01:24:41.600><c> the</c> billion. If you want to be in the predominantly<01:24:42.400><c> early</c><01:24:42.639><c> stage</c><01:24:43.199><c> but</c><01:24:43.440><c> with</c><01:24:43.600><c> the</c>

predominantly early stage but with the ability<01:24:44.080><c> to</c><01:24:44.320><c> follow</c><01:24:44.639><c> on</c><01:24:44.800><c> a</c><01:24:44.880><c> rare</c><01:24:45.199><c> occasions</c> ability to follow on a rare occasions then<01:24:45.920><c> you</c><01:24:46.080><c> raise</c><01:24:46.320><c> the1</c><01:24:46.639><c> to2</c><01:24:47.040><c> billion</c><01:24:47.360><c> dollars</c> then you raise the1 to2 billion dollars that<01:24:47.840><c> the</c><01:24:48.159><c> the</c><01:24:48.400><c> men</c><01:24:48.880><c> of</c><01:24:48.960><c> this</c><01:24:49.040><c> world</c><01:24:49.199><c> the</c>

that the the men of this world the greylocks<01:24:49.679><c> of</c><01:24:49.760><c> this</c><01:24:49.920><c> world</c><01:24:50.080><c> have</c><01:24:50.239><c> done</c><01:24:50.880><c> more</c> greylocks of this world have done more than<01:24:51.440><c> I</c><01:24:51.600><c> think</c><01:24:51.679><c> the</c><01:24:51.920><c> real</c><01:24:52.080><c> point</c><01:24:52.239><c> for</c><01:24:52.480><c> this</c><01:24:53.040><c> to</c> than I think the real point for this to something<01:24:53.520><c> Jason</c><01:24:53.840><c> said</c><01:24:54.000><c> I</c><01:24:54.159><c> think</c><01:24:54.239><c> is</c><01:24:54.480><c> correct</c>

something Jason said I think is correct you<01:24:55.679><c> use</c><01:24:55.920><c> positive</c><01:24:56.320><c> words</c><01:24:56.639><c> like</c><01:24:56.880><c> discipline</c> you use positive words like discipline but<01:24:57.760><c> the</c><01:24:57.920><c> real</c><01:24:58.159><c> test</c><01:24:58.480><c> should</c><01:24:58.719><c> be</c><01:24:59.040><c> when</c><01:24:59.280><c> you're</c> but the real test should be when you're as<01:24:59.920><c> the</c><01:25:00.159><c> GP</c><01:25:00.639><c> alone</c><01:25:01.440><c> you</c><01:25:01.600><c> should</c><01:25:01.760><c> say</c><01:25:01.920><c> what</c><01:25:02.080><c> are</c>

as the GP alone you should say what are we<01:25:02.320><c> good</c><01:25:02.480><c> at</c><01:25:03.679><c> what's</c><01:25:04.000><c> going</c><01:25:04.080><c> to</c><01:25:04.239><c> maximize</c><01:25:04.719><c> the</c> we good at what's going to maximize the probability<01:25:05.440><c> of</c><01:25:05.679><c> us</c><01:25:06.080><c> succeeding</c><01:25:07.120><c> at</c><01:25:07.360><c> what</c> probability of us succeeding at what we're<01:25:07.760><c> good</c><01:25:07.920><c> at</c><01:25:08.320><c> and</c><01:25:08.639><c> minimize</c><01:25:09.120><c> the</c>

we're good at and minimize the probability<01:25:09.760><c> of</c><01:25:09.920><c> blowing</c><01:25:10.159><c> up</c><01:25:10.320><c> the</c><01:25:10.560><c> franchise</c> probability of blowing up the franchise by<01:25:11.280><c> getting</c><01:25:11.440><c> it</c><01:25:11.679><c> wrong.</c><01:25:12.159><c> And</c><01:25:12.320><c> that</c><01:25:12.480><c> if</c><01:25:12.719><c> that's</c> by getting it wrong. And that if that's the<01:25:13.040><c> meaning</c><01:25:13.199><c> of</c><01:25:13.360><c> the</c><01:25:13.520><c> word</c><01:25:13.679><c> discipline,</c><01:25:14.000><c> then</c>

the meaning of the word discipline, then yes,<01:25:14.480><c> it's</c><01:25:14.639><c> disciplined.</c><01:25:15.280><c> It's</c><01:25:15.440><c> also,</c><01:25:15.679><c> as</c> yes, it's disciplined. It's also, as Jason<01:25:16.239><c> points</c><01:25:16.560><c> out,</c><01:25:17.440><c> to</c><01:25:17.679><c> some</c><01:25:17.920><c> extent,</c><01:25:18.239><c> it</c> Jason points out, to some extent, it should<01:25:18.719><c> be</c><01:25:20.080><c> what's</c><01:25:20.480><c> disciplined</c><01:25:20.880><c> for</c><01:25:21.040><c> the</c><01:25:21.600><c> for</c>

should be what's disciplined for the for the<01:25:21.920><c> LP</c><01:25:22.400><c> should</c><01:25:22.639><c> also</c><01:25:22.880><c> be</c><01:25:23.840><c> long-term</c> the LP should also be long-term maximizing<01:25:25.360><c> for</c><01:25:25.600><c> the</c><01:25:25.760><c> GP.</c><01:25:26.239><c> It's</c><01:25:26.320><c> the</c><01:25:26.480><c> it's</c><01:25:26.639><c> the</c> maximizing for the GP. It's the it's the Goldman<01:25:27.120><c> Sachs</c><01:25:27.440><c> rule.</c><01:25:27.679><c> I</c><01:25:27.920><c> want</c><01:25:28.000><c> to</c><01:25:28.080><c> be</c>

Goldman Sachs rule. I want to be long-term<01:25:28.719><c> greedy,</c><01:25:29.520><c> right?</c><01:25:29.920><c> And</c><01:25:30.080><c> the</c><01:25:30.239><c> part</c><01:25:30.400><c> of</c> long-term greedy, right? And the part of being<01:25:30.719><c> long-term</c><01:25:31.040><c> greedy</c><01:25:31.360><c> is</c><01:25:31.520><c> preserving</c><01:25:31.840><c> the</c> being long-term greedy is preserving the franchise.<01:25:32.400><c> There's</c><01:25:32.639><c> no</c><01:25:33.760><c> it's</c><01:25:34.080><c> worth</c><01:25:34.320><c> noting</c>

franchise. There's no it's worth noting just<01:25:35.520><c> to</c><01:25:35.679><c> make</c><01:25:35.840><c> a</c><01:25:36.000><c> point</c><01:25:36.159><c> in</c><01:25:36.400><c> passing</c><01:25:37.040><c> that</c><01:25:37.280><c> two</c> just to make a point in passing that two of<01:25:37.600><c> the</c><01:25:37.679><c> names</c><01:25:37.920><c> you</c><01:25:38.159><c> cited</c><01:25:38.480><c> there</c><01:25:38.719><c> in</c><01:25:38.880><c> terms</c><01:25:39.040><c> of</c> of the names you cited there in terms of

the<01:25:39.280><c> long</c><01:25:39.600><c> actually</c><01:25:40.960><c> two</c><01:25:41.120><c> of</c><01:25:41.199><c> the</c><01:25:41.360><c> names</c><01:25:41.520><c> you</c> the long actually two of the names you cited<01:25:42.000><c> Greylock</c><01:25:42.400><c> and</c><01:25:42.560><c> Menllo</c><01:25:43.360><c> both</c> cited Greylock and Menllo both celebrated<01:25:44.080><c> their</c><01:25:44.320><c> 50th</c><01:25:44.719><c> anniversary</c><01:25:45.280><c> plus</c> celebrated their 50th anniversary plus

right<01:25:46.480><c> they've</c><01:25:46.800><c> survived</c><01:25:47.280><c> three</c><01:25:47.600><c> very</c><01:25:47.840><c> tough</c> right they've survived three very tough cycles<01:25:48.880><c> and</c><01:25:49.199><c> you</c><01:25:49.360><c> know</c><01:25:49.520><c> just</c><01:25:49.840><c> some</c><01:25:50.080><c> of</c><01:25:50.159><c> the</c> cycles and you know just some of the other<01:25:50.480><c> firms</c><01:25:50.880><c> haven't</c><01:25:51.199><c> really</c><01:25:51.440><c> been</c><01:25:51.600><c> through</c>

other firms haven't really been through that<01:25:52.080><c> same</c><01:25:52.239><c> level</c><01:25:52.400><c> of</c><01:25:52.560><c> downturn</c><01:25:53.040><c> so</c><01:25:53.600><c> you</c><01:25:53.760><c> know</c> that same level of downturn so you know there's<01:25:54.239><c> no</c><01:25:54.480><c> doubt</c><01:25:54.639><c> that</c><01:25:54.880><c> there's</c><01:25:55.120><c> a</c><01:25:55.520><c> survivor</c> there's no doubt that there's a survivor bias<01:25:56.320><c> in</c><01:25:56.560><c> that</c><01:25:56.719><c> discipline</c><01:25:57.199><c> and</c><01:25:57.760><c> who</c><01:25:58.080><c> who</c>

bias in that discipline and who who who's<01:25:58.560><c> to</c><01:25:58.719><c> argue</c><01:25:58.960><c> with</c><01:25:59.120><c> that</c><01:26:00.320><c> boys</c><01:26:01.040><c> as</c><01:26:01.199><c> a</c><01:26:01.440><c> wrap</c>