JRE MMA Show #181 — Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman

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you've been in, these just down and dirty brawls that you've been in, you you're comfortable with the back and forth. you're comfortable with enduring. You you know that you're not going to break. You know, if your body holds up, you're going to keep fighting and you can endure. I don't think he ever experienced that before.

So, when you didn't break in the second round and I think he made a mistake and I think you're correct about that. You said he made a mistake by going to the ground. Absolutely.

And that he hurt you to the body.

I told Trevor yesterday I think you know um him hurting to my body was the reason one of the main reasons I won. You know, when he when he hit me, it when I dropped, it wasn't the first time he hit me in the body. That was probably like the fourth or fifth one. And he had landed some really clean shots and he could probably sense that I was in trouble and hurt. And I think that fact made him dump everything because it was his last chance to take me out. And he almost did take me out. But when I went down in hinds, it's always easy to make these decisions in hindsight, but when I went down, you know, he would he's had way more more submissions than he has knockouts. And so for him not to have that belief that he's going to be able to go down there, especially with the Khabib fight, especially with the Charles Oliver fight, especially with all the negativity around my grappling, you know, I think he would have been foolish not to cuz I would have stood back up. I would have stood back up and he would have charged forward trying to finish me. I would have jumped on his legs. because I would have pulled guard. He was going to end up on top of me no matter what. I wasn't going to sit there and trade with him again. Like I would have, you know, front rolled into into grappling situations or what I would have made him cover me. And but I think me getting hit is what made him completely blow his, you know, Shane Carwesque,

you know, blow his tank.

Yeah.

And, you know, go for the win. And I think that was the choice he had to make because it was going to continue to get worse. I beat his ass in the first round. Like, it might have been close on the scorecards. I absolutely took the first round, but the amount of damage that I inflicted in the first round set up the rest of the fight.

I I do think it was a mistake. And and and you're you're saying what you're saying is so correct. But what I'm saying is from a standpoint of him demanding it, he's going to finish you in the first two. Understanding the damage that he was taking, he took big risks. He got in there. He kept his hands on your collar bones. He was landing really good shots. Yeah. the the the the two body shots before that that left hook to deliver that the sound it made was crazy. That last one was clean. It was precise and deep, but you could tell it was already there. But if he didn't put that pressure on himself, and this is what I mean by mistake is like when you come out, you have to know that you're going five rounds. And he knew that he had to unleash everything right there. If if he would have been smart in that scenario saying, "Hey, we got five rounds. Let me step back a little bit. Let me do some damage." But also, he's like, "Hey, let me get you out of there quick. Justin, you know, can't grapple, can't do all these things what a lot of people think, which Justin's a great grappler." And what was so smart about you is when you get tired, that's where the worst decisions happen is that's one of my big things as coaching is we get someone tired and then we make them make bad decisions and then then we capitalize on that on those mistakes. Justin was able to stay so composed here with being speared to the body. And when you take a liver shot, it is way different than the head shot. A head shot is like taking a shot with your buddies at the bar. It's like, "Hey, let's go." You know, but you take a body shot, you're dying. Like your liver shot, you feel like you're dying. And Justin, all the decisions he made on the ground from the triangle, from the armbar, from not being flat. So many good decisions were made in that scenario. And I do think it was a mistake. Obviously, there's so many different ways it could go, but those those type of moments in fights are what make fights great is overcoming obstacles. And he had set that up. He had said it. He's like, "Hey, I'm going to overcome anything. I'm going out there putting the worst thing out there. Like, what are you going to do to me? I've already been knocked out the last second of a freaking huge fight by Max. Like, you can't do nothing worse to me." And that mindset, I think, is, you know, something to take away for all the fighters out there that always, I love how you say it, expect a war. Always. Some of the biggest mistakes that I've made with fighters that I had is allowing them to think that they're going to go through this fight easy, and then that fight becomes super hard. You think it's going to be a war, then you're like, "Hey, it wasn't as bad as I was expecting." Even if it was a little bit of a war,

they're not going to help them in that moment. There's no pulling them out.

That's fighting. Fighting like fighting is is mentality. I look at this like there's techniques out there and there's things like that. What makes this sport inspirational and makes someone want to go out there and beat cancer because they were inspired by a fighter? It's not the technical piece. It's getting back up. And it's okay to get knocked down. I love I love watching people get knocked down because my favorite part is seeing how they get up. And that to me is why I love fighting is how people get up.

Yeah. How they endure. And that was the big story of that second round that you figured out a way to get through it. And the change in tempo in the third round was very obvious because the sprint that you have to make like what Ilia did when he was trying to finish you that he he used so much [—] energy and the great Chail Sunen once said that if you try to win by knockout and fail you won't win by submission.

Yeah. And a lot of times that's the case because you know as good as anybody if you [—] sprint it hard you whail in the bag with [—] everything you got for two minutes and then they go time one minute's not enough.

It's not enough.

Even in preparation

even two minutes tired after they did that.

That was crazy too. That was crazy too. We'll talk about

preparation for these fights. Like I'm doing 20 30 40 second sprints at most. I mean, that was that was a two-minute sprint for him.

Yes. Full out. Full out. Full power. Everything. Full power. Every punch. Full power.

You can't even train for that.

Can't. You got to have spots,

right? And he didn't. He was just unloading. I mean, that's a young man with a tremendous amount of confidence because he's a two division world champion and he thinks he's going to go down as the greatest of all time. And hey, he might still he might still What is he? 28. The odds the odds are [—] great against that right now

because of that loss.

I hope he does.

It's I hope he does too. I hope he does and I know that he has the skill.

I know that he has the skill to be a champion again. However, I same thing with Tony Ferguson. I didn't break Tony Ferguson's confidence. I changed the perception of his opponents of him. And that is a huge factor when you go in there. Like who are you fighting? What do you figure? You know, before this, he was a guy that would that you couldn't get through, that you couldn't push through, you couldn't survive with. And once I showed people that all you got to do is get through that, then nobody's ever going to go in there with thinking [snorts] that he's unbeatable now,

you know, and that that was his that was his identity. And, you know, that's going to be such a tough task for him to fight people that aren't scared of him.

That's interesting. That's Mike Tyson in his prime. That's Anderson Silva in his prime where the fight was lost before got in there. Yeah.

The fight was lost before he got even got in there. Um physically, uh now I don't know what the truth is, but all these reports are that he has two fractured orbitals and a broken nose. Um, just that alone, just the orbitals alone, like anytime you've got eye injuries, like anything severe with your eyes, long-term consequences vary, you know,

it's psychological.

Absolutely. And your body heals and physical. The body is resilient. I'm telling you, I

broken bones make stronger bones. Like that is his his his orbital bones will be stronger. It depends on where though Justin the orbital bone I had my orbital broken and

for 6 months I would do this and my tooth would move and it's right where my sinus cavity is. You remember when you hit me with a spinning elbow?

Your tooth would move when you push your cheek

and my tooth would move.

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I still feel the soft spot, but this is a very weak area where your sinus cavity is. That's a And you you broke both orbitals and the nose. Like I do believe the body is you ever seen Rob's nose? You ever seen the X-ray of Morab's nose? No. [snorts]

Did I send it to you?

It looks like a spine cuz it's been broke. Dude,

you've got 33 vertebrae.

It's literally [—] crazy.

I've had three broken noses. I've had it fixed twice.

Yeah, I know. You had it fixed. You know, this is one. There it is. That's Morab's nose.

Oh my god.

I mean, that's that looks like a long cocaine binge right there. It took out the whole [—] left side of his nose. Looks like he got hit with a sledgehammer. I mean, that nose is crazy.

That is crazy.

That is like And to fix it, he's going to have to have no contact for like a year.

Yeah, that's

And so, he's not going to fix it. He's just going to deal. Look how turned it is. Like, that the bone

I've had my eyes fixed and my nose fixed and my nose was better for for quality of life.

Obviously, being able to [clears throat] see was huge, but when your nose is broken, like you have to understand like getting a haircut [—] sucks. You can't breathe through your nose, your mouth open the whole time. You're constantly breathing in [—] hair.

Like there's there's so much they can't use the [—] thing you're choking.

Every time you eat food, like you just there's something missing.

Yeah.

Uh sleep. I wore a nose strip to bed for 10 years now,

you know? Now you

used to have a scab, a permanent scab because I peeled that thing off all the time.

Yeah, my nose are used to it now. But yeah, when you got it fixed was insane.

Uh, when you got it fixed, which fight was it before the Max fight?

Yeah, right before the Max fight

and then you could breathe out of it perfectly.

Yeah.

Is it still good now?

Yeah, he he broke it, but he didn't break he didn't [—] with the cartilage. He broke he actually fractured the bone up top so I didn't have to get a fix. It's another factor that we when we were talking about the fight and you know people were talking about um this matchup with Ilia I said you have to think about what he did to Phys. Phys is a super talented striker and then you also have to think about the Max Holloway fight because he was pressing in the first round but he got caught with a jump spinning back kick to the [—] face. And when that was that's a that's a game changer and it happened at the end of the first round and [snorts] from that it changed the tone of the fight because it was just dead on. It was perfect. Couldn't have landed any better. And

the truth of the matter is is psychologically I was not I was not there. I was not prepared mentally for the fight when I fought Max Holloway. It was such a different circumstance. It was you know a guy that wasn't in my weight class. It was a guy that I had never thought about fighting. Um, it was for fun and that whole the whole experience was so different than any other fight I've ever had when it comes to like being mentally prepared for for a fight.

What do you attribute that to? Like what

myself my my

and us like we took we we told him to take the fight. He didn't want he didn't want to take the fight and we told him that you're going to keep the the title contention fight because that's what they promised us. That's why he was very in very

Well, every one of you guys every one of you was like oh something was different. It was like, "Well, why didn't you guys [—] say something?"

Well, you told you told me tell me after the fight like something was different, but like I needed to know.

He tells me after

he's like this. He's like, "I just didn't respect him." And I'm like, "How could you not respect Max?" And I didn't catch on to it. So, it's like I'm always looking for flags and things like that. And 100% I take 100% responsibility because that's how we learn. Everybody makes mistakes. I remember the Tony Ferguson fight. I didn't give any [—] water, you know? Like there's like things that we all learn from. But the thing when he had told me that I'm like how did I not catch that uh from you cuz he's like dude he was a smaller guy just didn't and and I was like dude Max is like one of the guys that I look up to from the outside like he is talented.

I remember thinking what what am I looking for? Like what am I afraid of? I kept trying to convince myself that I need to be I need to find what I was to be worried about and I couldn't find it.

So you always need that before a fight.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. no matter who it is, you're fighting,

you know?

Yeah. And so, like, I was I've never been as present and like um

I've never been able to retain a fight and I, you know, before the knockout, I I was there like I was I was in the I was in the in the arena. I saw the lights. I saw the people. I heard the people. Like, I've never been there in my life. And I think that I can attribute that to me not being scared and so me not, you know, me not being in a real fight or flight,

real life or death situation. So you weren't fully focused. You could actually hear the crowd.

Yeah.

I could I could hear my thoughts, you know? I had thoughts. I've never had thoughts in a fight because I'm so intuitive and reactionary. And that one was just so dear. There was so much. And so sure, the kicks, the eye pokes. No, I think I was not I couldn't have beat him that night with the mentality that I had

and that was my last lesson to learn.

I I had made my less, you know, my lessons with um Olive Vera was like I wanted it so much.

I wanted it so bad and I wanted to perform and I wanted to impress uh my fans. You know, Rose had a fight that night and she fought like absolute garbage and I, you know, and I told my coach, I said, "Coach, don't worry. I I I won't do that to you.

He said that right before about

right before we're about to walk. I was like, "Don't worry, coach. I never let you down like that."

And coach is pissed and everyone's, you know, my the locker room's all [—] up cuz Pat's [—] weird.

Is that the Carlos Sparza fight? Was that the same night?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was at home and so there was just and that was again that was my fault. I allowed those things to affect me,

right?

And to, you know, um affect my fighting decisions rather than just being myself. Um, and so that was a huge mistake. Um, another mistake was, [snorts] uh, you know, winning two or three times in a row and just kind of becoming complacent with how serious what we do is and how dangerous this game is and how much luck and chance are a factor every single night. And so, you know, I wasn't doing the extra credit. I wasn't sitting in the sauna at home, you know, and I don't know. I don't know why. It's just and then I made that mistake um probably into the Eddie Alvarez Dustin Porier fights, lost and then I won three or four in a row and then I completely went back to the same mindset of I'm the best in the world. Nobody can beat me and I paid for it. And those two mistakes were huge, very very big learning lessons. And then the uh the Charles Oliver fight, you know, I was like I wanted it so bad and then I made the moment so much bigger than it actually was because it's just 25 minutes in time and I it's all I can control is being perfect. My preparation for it, but then ultimately being there for 25 minutes and being perfect. And yeah, those are the mistakes that I made. I had to learn. I had to make those mistakes. I would not change anything about my career. I think the farther back into my career you go, the more special this moment is. And you know, I think um in time again I I've this is going to age like my my career is something special. The way that I did it, the way that I that I lost, the way that I stayed on track, the way that I, you know, threatened retirement if I wasn't going to get a title champ, a title shot, um the way I called my shots along the way, then the the discipline I had, I mean, it's second to none. I've watched this sport my whole life since 1992. my dad showed me. I remember as a four-year-old seeing it. I don't have a lot of, you know, great memories. I I remember my childhood, but it's not like you have specifics, but I remember seeing it for my first time in my dad's bedroom. We were sitting there watching it together and I was and I was enthralled. I was like, "This is this is amazing. I love this shit."

Can you picture that? Him with like a baby bottle just squeezing it.

Yeah. And I was like, and then I watched it and then I was a diehard fan. I've been a dieh hard fan ever since then and especially in 2001 when it came along I was you know probably in seventh or eighth grade sixth or seventh grade and just fell in love with it and then you know me and call going into college we'd go and sit at Buffalo Wild Wow Wings for six seven eight hours spend $5 those poor service people [laughter]

it's just amazing that you've been able to keep this ferocious mentality for so long because I remember when you first entered into the UFC the Michael Johnson fight I was so pumped for it cuz I was Get ready cuz this is going to be [—] wild. Cuz I had been a fan of yours when you were fighting in what was it? World Series of Fighting

and then uh that Michael Johnson fight was everything that I thought it would be. [—] crazy. Just a wild ass fight.

Crazy coming out party.

Dude, I giggled so many times in that fight. Dude, when you went against the cage and you were like this, you like look back and you were like, "Oh, I'm looking for the shot." And you're like, "Block it off the thing." And then you come back with the right hook and then you let him back in again and you hit him with the right hook again off the cage. Dude, there's so many giggle sessions in there. Uh, I wasn't nervous because just again that's the way he fights and I'm like he's no one's gonna forget this fight.

Michael Johnson was swinging and caught him with that left hand a few times.

Well, that's the same left hand he knocked out Dustin with.

His left hand is so fast.

And Michael has power.

Yeah, he does.

Yeah, dude. And and he was trying to win. I mean, he was going all out that you guys just emptied out in that fight. It was fantastic. And I was like, there it is. the the three rounder to get off the the back flip. Took three rounds. He [laughter] got up there, fell off. Got up there, fell off. I was like, "You can do it. You I'm out there motivating." I

always get so scared for your knees when you do that. I'm like, "Please don't hurt your knees after you won the title."

I'm 100% baby. Yeah.

We're training for Kabib. We're over at high altitude. He's doing back flips off the off the the cage. And I was like, "Stop. Do this after the fight."

Yeah. He's like, "Hey, no more back." I was like, "Today, today's the day. Today's the day I become a bitch." [laughter] Like, "Today the day."

I'll never forget that moment. I was like, "You know what?"

I turned my head. I was like, "Stop." [snorts] Go. Go ahead.

That [laughter] is kind of true, right? When when you get something and all of a sudden you're special. Then you start protecting it and then you won't be special anymore.

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What makes I told him I was like, "So today today is the day, huh?

He's [—] crazy." [laughter] Like I never want him to stop being [—] crazy. Like everything about him in life when you play golf with him, he's the highlight. He does [—] that like you'll never [—] see. Like it's like everything you do is the highlight. Like his life is like his fighting. He's [—] wild.

So your mentality, you've never had to work on I mean obviously you've learned lessons along the way, but you've never had to like sit down and work on this mindset. It's always been something you inherently possessed.

Yeah. Yeah. I think um

it's crazy. I think I think people just complicate things so much. Like when you can truly

understand that there's there's there is things you can't control, but it's not everything.

You can only control what's inside of you. You know, you can only control how you perceive things, how you react to things,

the work you put in,

the the obviously the preparation.

Yeah. But it's um I mean there's so much, you know, and I I guess I always knew that something was coming because no matter how far off the the road, you know, like I've made mistakes, you know, I've done I was never an al thank God I was never an alcoholic and never but I was I could say I was I was probably a drug addict at you know one time in my life. And

what drugs?

I don't know. I have never told my parents about this, so I don't know.

You don't have to.

All of them. All of them. I want So, but it's going to can and and I know this is going to sound stupid, but so I went to school for human services. I wanted to help people. A big part of that is helping people come off drugs. And I lost many over a handful of friends, really close friends from drugs where I come from. We're not far from Mexico. And we had the best we had the best [—] coming right across the border before it ever got cut up. And it was um it was my life, you know, where I'm from is very boring. And so like you chase again, you know, we have it so good in this country. We're always trying to create chaos in order to feel something. And I guess that's what I was probably doing. And in college is when I really, you know, I was like, I if I'm going to help people come off of drugs, then how can I ever even try to understand if I don't know what they're chasing? And so that was a part of it. you know also a part was it felt good you know and so you know once I did uh certain things I knew what people were chasing but then I always knew that something was bigger for me and better for me and I had something to do and so that was always it was never a a crutch for me I was always like that was awesome you know I'm not doing it again

what is it in your head that where you always knew that you had something bigger [sighs]

uh Uh, well, probably my faith. I mean, I I I've been my my parents, the best thing they ever did for me was make me go to church every single Sunday and create a relationship with with God through the word of Jesus Christ and just trying to live up to those expectations. Um, I knew, not that I was going to be a champion or anything, I just knew that I couldn't take the easy way out, you know. um when you're on drugs or when you're when you're living a lifestyle like that, then nobody expects anything from you. Nobody wants anything from you. And that's an easy way to live. You know, those uh

right,

there's no pressure.

No expectations.

No expectations. No pressure. And I mean, it really is I can understand how you can let that overcome the the passion to live, you know, and um I don't know. I just think the passion to live because of my faith has never outweighed my desire to feel good.

I want to talk about the shift that you made in your career from being the most exciting guy in the world, wanting to be the most exciting guy in the world, being happy with performing to the best of your ability, whether you win or lose, to wanting to get the belt. What what was what what started that decision? [sighs]

It's weird because I don't remember a time or a day where I made a change other than I'm not going to get hit. You know, in the Dustin Porier fight and the Eddie Alvarez fight, I I absolutely almost broke them. And it was no different than any of my other fights. Nobody had just ever Same with Elia, you know, like nobody had ever got past it. Nobody had ever been able to withstand the ferocity of my actions for two or three rounds and then those guys did and I was like, what happened? You know, and ultimately I put myself in a position and I got hit with a shot that um took me out of the fight. And so after those fights, I was like, I have to not take these shots. And that was ultimately all I can say that I that I changed mentally is I'm going to I don't want to get hit. I used to never care about getting hit cuz it's like doesn't hurt. Nothing hurts in there. You don't feel nothing. It's never hurt. And so that was really just the mindset. I just need to not let them get me in a predicament where I'm not able to where they have to stop the fight. So the shift uh

but he he probably from the outside outside torsion.

Yeah, it's it's definitely there there was a shift and it wasn't just like an instant shift. It was the two losses in a row with Eddie and Porier uh where he's like I'm winning these fights and I need to be able to get to the distance and I was like all right we got to become a spot fighter cuz you just drown people and you're what's happening is you're making mistakes. We threw a low kick against poor he got caught because he based back lazy with his shoulders above his his hips. So, I was like, "All right, let's be sharp. Let's fight in spots." Then he goes on a three-ight win streak where he's finding the right spots and putting people out from from Vic to uh uh Barbosa into Cowboy Cerrone. And that's where he's like, and then I I sat down with him and I was like, "Do you want to be a champion?" And I was like, "This is how you have to fight to be a champion is be smart." And he never said he he never said he didn't want to be the most excited fighter in the world. He would tell me after fights, he's like, "I'm not even trying to fight excited, but look at me." [laughter] And it's like [—] like it's so amazing. Like it's in him. It's just how do we how do we get you to sprint 50 yards, pull back for 100 yards, and jog and then sprint for 50 yards and like be able to know your your your your red line. Don't don't cross over that red line. Don't hold red line.

Well, that that is again the experience that you found in wars. It's such was so critical in the White House.

Yeah. You don't want to make mistakes

and it is I think it's crazy. I think um again the fact that they said that he had out struck me in the first round 39 to 32 or something.

You landed some hard jabs in that.

Yeah, there's yours were devastating.

He might have touched and

but I'm talking about the perception.

It looks like I'm getting hit. It looks like it's but I mean my I don't have special skin. I am able to see punches

and

and roll with them

and roll with punches. If you watch my, you know, fights frame by frame, I'm not getting hit for the most part.

You're moving with the punches.

Yeah. Yeah. It's be like water. Like I'm I'm constantly,

you know, and and intuitively making these

calculations.

That's the scoring that when you see that and I don't know who's counting that, but that's like amateur boxing. Amateur boxing. If the white glove touches you in the face, even if it's not a clean blow, that's considered that's how you judge.

Yes. And that that's where Justin I think where you look at it from a point system. You can't just look at the the screen and that's why you know judges can't look at a screen and go oh this guy landed more. This is who won. You had the damaging blows. I think everybody knows that. Like I get it. Like I see the way you roll a shot. I see the way that you fade off and allow the shot not to go through your skull

and deflect it. You're it still gets touched to you. So it's considered that they landed that shot. But the damage is like what you do to people by the way that you hip through that you drive through people is so different. Like like Justin hits unlike any he still I still think to this day we got to ask the UFC. But they did a test on him to see who has the hardest bones in the UFC. He he had the hardest bone dude. He kicks me and I'm just like dude I I'm so glad I feel so bad for Luke.

He didn't let he don't let me kick God. Dude, Luke Cadill on. He has his pad on. I kick him and his his nuts swell up.

Dude, I get blue balls, bro. And so I can't there's a nerve on the inside of your leg. I talked to a doctor about it cuz I'm like bro like he kicks people and they bruise on the inside of their leg and it's cuz the shock through but there's a nerve on the inside of the leg. I'd go home and I'd tell my wife I'm like babe I got [—] blue balls. [laughter] She's like from who? And I'm like Justin. She looks at me like

the [—] you got blue balls from Justin for?

One of the things you were doing early in your career that I always thought was so wild was you were leg kicking people from a collar tie.

Like you were a leg kick guy. I was like oh my goodness. Like how come no one's doing that? like you were one of the only guys that I saw that was doing that that was from the clinch was leg kicking.

You've got some [—] flexible hips, man. Because the way you were able to do that from like right in tight like this and then and not just throw the leg out. You're whipping into it.

Yeah. He he pulls them to their lead leg. So, he's making a base on that knee and then it's just like you got a stump in the ground. You're just trying to bend that tree,

you know? And man, he's very good at Let me tell you something about Luke cuz I got into the octagon at right after you won and Luke and I looked at each other. He was like dude [laughter] like dude

Joe was so he's like Joe was so pumped. He hugged me so hard.

He was so happy. He was it was amazing cuz seeing all those videos and knowing he's in camp with you all the time and knowing how much he loves you. Watching the happiness that he had when you won was [—] incredible.

No, Luke is one of my really really good friends. He

pukes every time before a fight. every time

before Trevor was in my corner, Luke cornered me, he used to go uh to Arizona with me. I had no coaches.

I would just do it in between, you know, in between wrestling seasons and yeah, he would go down there with me and just wrap my hands and he would just be there.

Wow. He's amazing. One of the best human beings on earth.

Yeah, I love that, man.

Hey, can you tell them about the the the Sunday? So, the Sunday before

the fight. [—] So, so there was one time, I think it was in the the cowboy fight where you were you were pummeling with Ben

and he'd finish with a low kick on Ben every time and I'm like, "Stop kicking your coach." And he looks at me, he's like he's like, "Trevor," he used to drag me back on the mats. He's like, "I'm going to kick." I was like, "Just give me this [—] give me this opportunity to beat his ass."

So, we go golfing, [laughter] Joe. And I'm

Sunday we go golfing the Sunday before the fight. We get there Saturday. We go golfing Sunday. And, you know, it's a Sunday. We never work out on Sundays. and Trevor, not Trevor, Luke and Ben got [—] pickled

on the golf course. They they each had like three very very very stiff um

uh

Bloody Mary's Luke bought like 12 beers [laughter] cuz we got there and they're like, "Hey, everything's on the president." And he's like, "Fuck yeah, I've never heard that before. Everything's on the president. I'm going to drink." And so like whole 10 or 11, Trevor's like, "Let's [—] with them. Let's tell them that we're going to work out later." So,

well, we're going to work out, but I'm telling they're they're going to be the workout. I didn't know we were working out. Put it this I had no [—] out Sunday. We're definitely working.

I thought he was [—] with me. We're out there golfing. It's hot as [—] I'm sweating my ass off. I had no idea we were working out that day. And he's like, "Let's [—] with him. Let's tell him that we're going to work out." I was like, "All right, cool."

So, I told him I was going to text him and give the workout cuz I'll get I'll lay out the workout for everybody. And

[snorts]

uh I told Luke he was going to go three rounds of sparring, full-on sparring, and then Ben's got to go 40 minutes straight. No breaks, just grappling. Not wrestling, just grappling.

And they're [—] up.

Dude, I told Justin, I was like, "All right, let's [—] with see how he is. And dude, instantly, I didn't text it. We just started talking about it. So, we're on the way home driving home. And dude, Ben is like, "Dude, he's like he's like, "Uh, I'll I'll just take you down." And and he's like I I asked him, "How many times you going to take him down?" "As many as I want.

Many times as I want,

dude."

He's like, "4 minutes. Let's go see."

So, they went 20. Dude, you got what? Seven submissions on your coach. He drugg him back on the mat. It was so funny cuz I was like, "Dude, you got to drag him back on the mat cuz I got to witness this."

It's funny cuz I got a video. Uh, [laughter]

dude, we get home. home. I go home. I go down and take a nap for like two hours and they just stay drinking up talking [—] while they're drinking.

My YouTube guy filmed everything and they're just talking so much [—] how they're going to [—] me up.

Luke was good though. Luke was like he was trying to say

Luke's been through it, man.

Like you're really going to say that like Luke's

Yeah. Luke's like, "Hey, I ain't saying any of this. Not me. It's him."

But they're making a plan how they're going to team up on me.

And so you It's funny. Then he got that video there and I'm beating Ben's ass.

Oh, no. Actually, I [snorts] went with Luke first and I was [—] him up. And Luke's punching Ben because Ben won't jump in.

Ben's like, he's like, "What the [—] Ben? What the [—] Ben? Now's the time."

And he's asking for help. Asking for help. I beat his ass. And I did.

We have fun. For sure.

Great coaches. Our whole team is just everybody's so dialed in.

Yeah, that whole week is one of my Every time we go, that whole week is one of my favorite experiences.

You were using the sauna in between workouts as well

and before. So, we were

nothing. That [—] sucked. I say it was perfect. You say it was perfect. It was not. It was detrimental to our performances. Yes. The humidity was there. I didn't realize it because obviously it's not, you know, it's not something I can worry about right now. But after round one, I just remember thinking,

"Oh, [—] I am so tired right now. How how is this possible?" And the amount of the amount of fluid I lost was probably lost like 15 pounds.

Yeah. Because it was in the 70s,

dude.

Yeah. 70s with the cool breeze. You know, when you go out there, what you feel is the cool breeze, but

heavy in the fight, man. It was It was different.

Yeah. I hated the fact that it was going to happen, but I'm glad it did.

I'm again I I would not change. Again, I think

how could you change it?

It affects me. It affects him, you know. Again, I grew up in the country. He's

he's a city boy. There's no way he's not a city boy. I don't know him personally, but there's no way he's not a city boy, you know? And so, as a country country boy from

the desert in Arizona, like I was hoping that it would be

hot as [—]

Hot as [—] [laughter] Like

when he sat down on the stool, I was like, "Oh god, these outside fights kill me."

Yeah. You know, he was dude like, "Dude, you were shaking,

dude." He was like trembling. I was like, "Holy shit."

Well, it is crazy to ask people to defend a world title in a completely alien environment that you never have fights in. We've had

How many fights outside? We've had the Abu Dhabi fight in like what was that 200 [—] nine or something like that?

Oh, they did didn't the What was the setting? I wasn't there. It was it was

when Adosa did his famous walk out in like a it was covered but it was

it seemed like the environment was outside

poorer against Abu Dhabi Abu Dhabi. Well, we did one in Abu Dhabi when BJ

the big arena

lost to Frankie Edgar. That was outside in Abu Dhabi.

Um and that was when Anderson Silva fought Damen Maya.

Is that was it with that Ferrari building? The Ferrari building was there, but it I don't know if it was in the same place.

They had a Did they have a fight in the Ferrari building?

I think they did, but I wasn't there for that one. I only went to one of the Abu Dhabi fights.

Yeah. It wasn't It wasn't that long ago.

Remember we were talking the last seven years?

Remember the dude in Morocco said after the first round he was done. He was just trying to survive. He said it was so hot. Remember?

Yeah. No, I mean that's what I remember

it being over there and then you know once you realize the climate over there and the humidity it's like

[—] bow dog. Remember Bodog fights? Bowdog fights. They had they had a fight outside in the sun.

Yeah.

On the beach.

Caesar Palace in Vegas. Remember Caesar's Palace? They had a boxing I we got to fight there. Verno Phillips against.

That's right. They used to always do it outside.

World was a fighting around that NASCAR event.

Yeah, that's that was crazy.

During Duran versus Hearns was outside.

They were they were great. Yeah.

Yeah, that's true. That's right. At least Vegas is dry.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

Arizona, Vegas, Colorado.

Yeah. Humidity was what I was training for with him was heat stroke. Like dealing with it where you can't breathe. It's heavy air like like

So you putting water on the rocks in the sauna as well. And so what was

And we trained in a hotter gym. I I'd turn the temperature up in the gyms just so he's getting used to dealing with a little bit more heat stroke.

We would spike my heart rate and then I would go in the sauna 15 minutes and then I would come out and do eight to 10 rounds.

It was great. I I'm so glad we did it.

Very smart. Very smart. Cuz that environment is I mean it's so completely different. I I just

ultimately I think the best way to fight is obviously the way you usually fight. Controlled environment. That's how it should be.

It was cool though, Joe. You know why?

So cool.

So we we went [laughter] did we went and did a rehearsal. Okay. And I'm like, why are we rehearsing a walkthrough? Like this ain't a freaking wedding. Like just tell us where to go. The camera guys are always like, "All right, your mark here."

So why are we doing this? And then we go there and we get stuck in this locker room for two hours,

hour, hour and a half

because of rain. And thank God that happened because then I started to go, "Oh, because it's all unexpected. You and how I said, "Hey, I'm a visualizer. I can't visualize this this arena." And I visualize a lot, too. So, I was like, I felt the exact same thing when he said that. And uh that's when I knew, hey, these are going to be some huge unknowns. And I had told him that night cuz the rain was coming. Like, it was crazy how the storm split around cuz it was all bright red. And I was like, "This is thunderstorms. This ain't just" And

they were talking about pushing the fight till 10:30 p.m.

We had planned on fighting at the start of the night at 2:00 in the morning.

I started staying up till like 3:00 a.m. after the rehearsal. I was like, "It could be 3:00 a.m. when we fight.

I'm going to just start staying up."

But that's what was cool. Like the walk out like having the soldiers like just walking through the soldiers. There was that

we weren't able to take any of this in. Joe, uh, and I can't really speak for

📋 한국어 요약 보기 →

him. I know where his mindset. I couldn't from a coach's standpoint. I was nervous as [—] cuz you don't know. There's no pattern I could take on right now and kind of put myself and breathe to it. It was very unique. And at the end, I couldn't even really smile. It was just like, dude, I'm just like blown away. Now I can kind of just look around slowly and just try to take in everything because it was very very hard to to go through that scenario with the pressure of us fighting on on this stage at the White House. We're the Americans. We're a six to1 underdog. That gets to you that that you know when you hear that over and over and over and over, it's you know your phone, dude. You you

caught a Marlin.

But uh having uh uh

take a left.

Just that scenario was so unique. And then once it was over, then it was like now I get to enjoy the White House and just being here in this this this great environment.

There you can see it. What is he reading there? Is that the Declaration of Independence?

Yep. So we weren't in the room with him right there. We through the the rehearsal. Yeah. How crazy was that? He's in the Oval Office stepping out

and then all the soldiers walking through. So cool. Like having the two guys next to him

and a lot of people complained about this happening at the White House. And but

do you don't think this is cool?

This is how could you not like this? How could anyone not This shouldn't be taking place. Shut the [—] up,

dude. Life is a fight. World is a fight.

It's incredible to watch.

Inspirational. It's a wild thing to watch. By the way, how much gold did Trump put on those walls? Look, he's got gold everywhere. Look at these [—] gold designs.

When we were at the the the Oval Office, first thing I said is I was like, "This thing is small as hell." Like when I see it on pictures, it like seems so big and I was like, "But the gold pieces on the wall is the first thing I was like, they dust that [—] every day cuz dude, it was so clean."

Well, he put that up there. None of that was there. None of that was there. He was explaining to me there was no gold. I wanted to have gold. He's got a gold cherub, like a solid gold cherub that's above like one of the doors. He goes, "If Putin comes, hopefully it doesn't fall in his head. [laughter] It's like he's got gold everywhere. It's all him." He redesigned a bunch of the things there. You know, he's a builder, right? So that's why he wanted to do the ballroom. That's why he wanted to keep it, you know,

he likes everything in gold. He's a gold guy. [laughter]

Was that Austin Powers,

bro? Watch. We were just watching you look at the Declaration of Independence before you walked out, which is also wild. Like, this is never going to happen again. This is more historic than Rumble in the Jungle, more historic than I mean, think about all the great fights that we've all watched as kids that were like, remember that? This tops everything because of the scene, because of the fact that not only is it at the White House, but the American, who's a six to one on some books underdog, pulls it off in spectacular fashion

and just the seessaw of the fight,

the back and forth,

the back and forth of the fight was [—] huge because the second round was crazy. It was like, "Oh, no."

And letting it go on again when when so our corner, all the coaches were like, "Dude, they're going to stop it." And I was said out loud, I was like, "Please let it go on. And I just wanted a like a like

definitive ending,

dude. Cuz that would have been a point where it's like especially with him going, "Hey, I want to go and continue." And then we have Goddard come out and say, "Hey, you are

God for Mark Goddard." Okay. Cuz if it wasn't for Mark Godard, if another less experienced referee,

you think he did?

He wanted it out.

Yeah.

You don't you don't you know for a fact you do not ever as a fighter say, "I cannot see. It's over."

And he was counting on that. He said he had already stated it. He didn't need to say it again. He did not think they were I don't think he thought they were going to.

So you think that he called Godard a turkey internally? He was like when he said, "Oh, you're going to go fight." Hey, I was playing

in that moment. He just like I've done, you know, I'm I've tried and it might have been like, you know, the little devil on his shoulder trying to get him out and then he re-evaluated and rethunk it and understood that he had to keep fighting.

Did you say thunk?

Thunk it.

Rethunk it.

Dude, that's a real word.

I stopped. I [laughter]

I stopped. I stopped. I stopped him twice. I stopped him twice that night. There's no doubt about it.

I loved it. I loved it.

This episode is brought to you by OnX Off-Road. Ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain lakes? They're tucked away dispersed campsites. With OnX Off-Road, you'll find legal open trails around you and even better guided trails mapped by real off-roaders. Each one includes photos, terrain descriptions, and difficulty ratings so you'll know if your vehicle is capable before you go. Unlike other apps, OnX gives you turnbyturn directions on the trail, and their new disperse camping layer shows where you can legally set up camp. You'll also get private land boundaries, public land overlays, and the ability to download maps for offline use so that you're never guessing, even when you're off the grid. It's a powerful tool built for serious off-roaders. Try OnX Off-Road for 50% off. Go to onxmaps.com/jo. Well, it was um it was a big factor that Goddard let it go on because then we got to see that epic fourth round which is [—] crazy which was just in the end when you landed that knee to the body that was like the final

that was right where he landed that heavy knee that he just starts chopping it where he got the elbow in.

Yeah. And then then he has to quit on a stool. And if GodDard had just given to that referee or that judges or the the doctors rather desires. Here it is.

I love how you punch right here. Right on the spot.

Yeah.

Oh, right there. Oh, right where I just Oh.

Yeah. He did not like that.

And that was the end.

Crazy fight. I mean,

it's crazy how different. So again, being a fan of this sport, I've got to watch, you know, I would have usually watched this from and yeah, it would have been the most [—] incredible thing ever. Being the fighter, you know, you're really not appreciating any of that because you're so locked in to

it's like golfing, like you don't know, but golfing, it's like certain swing thoughts, you know, and [clears throat] nothing else can come in, nothing can creep in. And so me looking at the Declaration of Independence, I was looking at it, but I I didn't I didn't take it in as as this being the Declaration. I was sitting there. I was like, "Okay, got to reset his feet. Got to control. Got to move left. Got to move left. Can't get against the fence." You know, and then those are the thoughts I'm [clears throat] having as the through the whole walk out. And so I'm really not taking any of it in as it as it, you know, as the show or as the theatrics of it.

Of course not. Watching it in hindsight obviously is is [—] awesome.

There was something special about you warming up with the American flag around your shoulder, too. We were watching that. There was something special about watching you shadow box before all this with the American flag on. I was like, if he wins, good lord, if he wins tonight, it's going to be [—] insane. And it was is the the the feeling of like joy throughout the building, throughout the grounds, like the happiness that everybody had seen had been there to see such an incredible event and such an amazing cap to that event with your fight.

It was just nuts.

It felt like a whole arena to me. It was crazy for the amount of people that you could see.

Here it is to back flip in front of the [—] White House. [laughter]

Dude, he flag you flag. That's a sick picture. I rolled out of it.

It was [laughter] Hey, hey, tell me tell me what was it? Tell me that what' you use Newton's law.

Newton's first law. Object in motion needs to stay. I just stayed in motion. [laughter]

Stay in motion. That's all it is.

Look at the size of that [—] crowd that was outside.

So, you couldn't see this crowd. Like, I couldn't see this crowd, but

you could hear them and you could feel them. You could feel the energy. I mean, even though there was only 4,000 people, did not did not feel like 4,000 people. It felt like a h 100,000 people because all those people were behind us,

you know. It was different.

How many people were in that?

85,000 plus. Yeah.

It happened so fast.

The the the size of the group outside was insane.

I mean, and they're watching on these giant screens and freaking out

like a concert. When we were at the weigh-ins, it was like, dude, that's what I picture like Woodstock being like, dude, I looked and I could not see the end of the people.

Yeah. No, it was nut. The weigh-ins were nuts. When we first walked out, I was like, "Holy [—] this is crazy." But it just shows how hyped people were for this event,

you know? I mean, it was an incredible event. I mean, the UFC production team, they just knocked it out of the park. And then more importantly, you knocked it out of the park. The cap, it couldn't have gone [clears throat] better. And the the most important thing was that you did have to overcome that. We did see a real back and forth and we did see the skills that led people to believe that this guy is the number one pound-for-pound fighter in the world. I mean, his [—] boxing is elite. It is sharp shooter and

but I mean my coach is a [—] genius. I mean when it comes to like again it's really hard to you always sound right in hindsight but the strategy we had was so perfect to fight a guy like that. I mean if I think if you ask him right now which way was Justin moving, he's going to think I was moving right the whole time because my head is so so heavy and I lean over to that side. But I was moving left the entire time. And he's so pointed that, you know, he he's powerful here. But when you when you put him here, like nobody can push and sprint. Like he's not ever going to take off sprinting that way as fast as he can. He's going to have to gather and reset and then and then point and then go. And I constantly kept readjusting him. And it was so subtle. And that's what fighting is. his subtle subtle movements, but I mean his game plan was was and then his game plan, his mind, my u ability, but really it's my athletic ability. Like if people don't understand how athletic I am and I think that is what surprises every opponent I've ever fought is how, you know, herkyjerky, twitchy, how explosive and how athletic I am. And I think that's the biggest asset that I have.

Why do you think anybody be surprised by that at this stage? Why do you think they're surprised?

Because the human because it doesn't look like that.

No, you're I I Justin, I think you're looking into the Patty fight. I feel like uh the Patty fight you you cuz a lot of people were like, "Oh, you look older. You look this." Cuz the way we fought like our sty our game patty fight.

How sweet is that? Now, I mean, if you watch the Patty fight, you would never expect you would only expect punches coming from here. That's all I because he would pull

I had to like wrangle him in.

Wrangle him in.

And this guy, no shot,

palm strikes. Like we need to palm strike him. We need to keep him inside of our loop. And uh if if you're throwing straight shots at Patty, Patty will disengage very long with his his upper body. So he was throwing wild shots and then long uppercuts like stay on the outside when you're throwing up cuz Patty's got very good knees coming in. So we can't get too deep with the head. very simple plan, but also it was like make it chaotic as most chaotic as you could be uh to be able to do that because Patty his blitzing was very fast. He's a very good blitzer. He'll he'll blitz past you and almost like running type of punches like old Vtor Belffort. But this fight is a lot different where it's now elbows in. We have to be tight in these types of positions and we need to step to his center and get on his back foot line or outside of his back foot line. And that was like a key factor to this one is because Ilia is very front heavy and we'll bounce back and forth. So once he goes to this angle, we need to attack the rear shoulder and once he starts to reset now, we're going to be able to jab and stick the jab at the rear shoulder where your jab was landing. That's my favorite part is the jab wasn't landing here where I got a very good slide. We're jabbing outside. So you're not doing inside jab coming under. You're jabbing from outside your shoulder which is pushing him on his rear foot. And then once we started to pressure, my favorite part is the the jab, pause, right hand,

his left foot, Justin's left foot when we go has to be has to be outside his rear foot like right there.

He opened his lead foot and he got his foot outside. And that's also so in case the right hand counter.

That was a giant moment in the fight when he landed that right.

Dude, the sound of it was crazy.

I wanted to sub his ass.

Oh, that was such a hard shot.

Do Do that one more time, Jamie. Watch his lead foot after the jab. Now watch his left foot after the jab outside the rear foot. Boom.

And that because he's got a high shoulder. If if I'm throwing a right hand down this point, if you were looking at me, Joe, if you're if if I'm here, if he gets his foot out now, the shot is coming from here. So, we were able to put him on the back foot and find that over because Ali's got a very good shoulder tuck.

He also dropped that right hand down.

Yeah,

it was beautiful. It was beautiful. And it was such a giant moment in the fight.

Like, look where I started. I started with my back to us and look left, left.

Mhm. left, left, left. But if you go out to the left backwards where that's where uh Ilia to me is the best. How we stop Vulk where he'll throw at you and then you go and then then he readjusts his lead shoulder almost to a salpa. Super dangerous there. That was one thing we tal about we cannot go backwards to the left cuz that's where we get square and Ilia dude he's he's very front heavy so he will attack you quick and he gets there fast.

Well, if he can recover from this it's going to be a big lesson. a big lesson learned. And

you know, I wonder if he'll still have those celebration dinners the night before.

There's no way

he better not, dude. His co his team that's that's up to his coaches to be honest with you.

It's it's amazing thing. Like it it people love that kind of confidence. They love that belief in themselves. And when someone pulls it off, people were talking for days about the all of you know, he celebrated the night before. Isn't that crazy?

And it and it worked that time and it it played out great for him. But the lack of experience being the nail,

so much experience being the hammer and also

expectations. He never thought he would had to be here.

But you keep say I wanted to go back to this thing that you said that the people don't think you're athletic. And I don't agree with that. I don't understand why you think that. [sighs and gasps]

I mean,

and maybe watches the Michael Johnson fight doesn't think you're athletic. I got to college, you know, my freshman year of college and I did a a cartwheel to a back flip and these guy two one guy was like, I would have never [—] guessed you could do some [—] like that. Like I just don't understand, you know? If you look at me, I don't look like an athlete, but

dude, you want a Ferrari?

No, I I know a Ferrari.

I know how athletic I am. I just The perception

No, no, no. Your perception's crazy. Listen, you look like an athlete. What the [—] are you talking about,

dude? He say, dude, he sent me this picture when I first met him from he went up to do a a clinic with his coach up in Granby with Ben Cherington and uh he sends me this video out of nowhere. I open it up and he's got a soccer ball and he's in this auditorium with the pads down on the ground and he's got his phone set up on the the pads that are against the wall. He throws a soccer ball up in the air and he does one of those bicycle kicks. Never he played just like one or two years of soccer. He did a bicycle kick, landed on his feet, and the ball knocked the phone off the freaking thing, dude. He hit the freaking phone. It was the coolest thing I've ever seen. I was like, "Bro, you are nuts." This guy snowboarding when we snowboard cuz I rode professional when I was younger. He got taken out of out of high school for it and he this dude, he he would catch things so fast and his tumbling. There was one time we were watching him and he was in mogul and mogul suck on a snowboard. He does this 360, catches his edge, falls to his back, and bounces off one of the moguls to a backflip right back into the mogul. And dude, these people on the side thought he meant to do that [—] They're like, [laughter] dude, I was like, bro, his tumbling skills, dude, you're freaking nuts. You are an athlete. I think everybody knows you're an athlete.

Well, you're not built like Paulo Costa, if that's what you mean. Yeah.

You know, it's like you're not, you know, there's there's guys that have less body fat than you and guys have more prominent muscles than you, but nobody looks at you fighting and doesn't think you're athletic. That's crazy.

I think it's the experts after the Patty fight saying, "Oh, you look sloppy." And those fights got to be sloppy.

Those people are [—] That fight looked like like chaos. Looked like you were going to press him and you you it also looked like you were kind of disdainful

of his his ability to hurt you.

Yeah. You know exactly.

Yeah. Once once I didn't respect his power, I was like, I'm [—] walking through.

Yeah. And that's what it looked like. It looked like you were just just trying to make it as chaotic as possible.

You make it sound like you had like a water boy. Like someone was like, "The water sucks."

He's like making the noises. Dude,

no.

You don't. But that's also probably a good thing that you think about yourself that way, you know, because it forces you to rise above and beyond anybody's expectations of you, you know. And I think one of the things about this fight that makes it so important is because Ilia was so dangerous, you had to get like deep in the zone. You couldn't have a moment like the Max fight. You could

Well, it was the Max fight got me here. Without that, I would have never been as hungry. I said it was going to happen and it didn't happen. Didn't happen. Didn't happen. Then it happened and it's like, okay, now I can I can never let my parents see me like that again. That was that was a driving factor. Like I can never let my mom I remember getting knocked out. I don't remember getting knocked out. I got knocked out. I don't remember anything. I don't remember him getting his hand raised and it had to have been 40 minutes to an hour and then I just my first recollection is being in the ambulance and seeing my mom's face.

Can I tell you that? Can I tell that story?

Yeah. Yeah. Tell me what I did cuz I still don't know.

So we're in the ambulance. Okay. And

you never know how you I was you were there when I came back.

Your mom's standing outside the back doors and we're waiting for the driver that that there's a medic in there with us, but he's he's good. But he keeps asking the same question over and over.

I still don't remember any of this.

And I'm worried about like, you know, everybody's parents are different on how they react, you know, and uh his mom was just cool. Just like I was so impressed. I was so impressed with her just spirit of seeing that happen. But Jess is laying there and he's like he's cool in everything he does. So he's got like this cool like lay like he's like you know just got stopped and he's laying there and he's like he'll look at me and he gets like his head he's like I got knocked out and I was like yeah

it's like 40 this like 40 seconds.

He's like what round? What round? And I said last second of the fight and he goes

good for him dude. Then it would like dude I'm telling you like 2 minutes would go by and we'd just be having normal conversation and he look at me I get knocked out and I was like yep dude it happened over and over and over

happened with fighters.

Yes. But him saying good for him the way he said it every time that he came back to it like that's the type of person Justin is like if if he lose in competition the better man won that night. And that to me is something that stands out to me. That's character.

Character of him saying when he does it that that's subconscious traits that you have.

That character is also the character that allows you to reach your full potential.

Absolutely.

Cuz you're not being held back by any [—] ego things.

Not fake.

Cuz there's a lot of people that are held back as good as they are. They don't ever reach their full potential because they have some [—] ego problems.

Absolutely. They care of what everybody thinks. And that in that situation, losing that fight in the last second of the last round and having that reaction, that is the truest test of character that a man is ever going to go through.

Yeah,

that is as true a test of character ever in front of the whole world.

What I remember first is seeing my mom's face though. Saw her face and I saw no concern. I just She was worried about me, but she was not concerned.

She wasn't freaked out.

No, she wasn't freaked out at all. I was like,

and that's when I I never I never reset and asked if I had got knocked out again after that moment, I don't think.

No, no. Once it it happened for probably I'd say you probably asked it six or seven times and then once that then we were cool for probably five minutes before we went to the hospital. Then you're totally cool. The the cool part about this, Joe, is those are some of my and it sucks because he's he's taken a shot like this, but me as a coach and as as someone that just loves fighting and loves the inspiration and and what these guys do is those are my proudest moments. Winning a fight like this, it was proud and and and you know, take it in, you're going, "Wow, this is a cool spot to be in." And you have to be grateful for it. But there's times where I'm caught smiling when my fighters are down. Like when when Camaro got got kicked and I stood next to him with the biggest smile just because I'm like, "Dude, you went out on your shield. You were looking so good." And this is the way you stand up again. So important to me. Justin Sales one time with Tim Means. It was one of my proudest moments just to see his his subconscious. Like I love the mindset,

dude. Tim Means hits him with a knee and he fights through it a little bit and takes another knee and he goes down and he's on the ground and his right leg is still like moving and he's like still punching and he's out and I'm like dude that's a fighting spirit like there is no quitted like you're you're fighting through being knocked out and subconsciously he's still in the fight and his body is still reacting that way instead of shelling up and being like I just got rocked. I'm going to shell up.

I could not wait to get in the octagon and they're like not trying to let me in. I'm like, let me just get over to him and sit next to him and put some ice on the back. When we stop guys, I'm always over to the other opponent first. To me, that's that's the coolest part is being able to see someone go out there and do their best and then to watch them come back. And that's why I'm I'm very excited to kind of see what happens with Ilia. This is going to be a hard one to overcome, but I hope he does cuz he's he's he's that talented. If he takes the right lessons, that's going to be a super inspirational thing to overcome. It's going to be hard, but I I I sure hope we get to witness that. I wonder if he's going to stay at 155. There are big guys at 155 and he's he wasn't that big for 45.

You know, when you think about weight cutting in the modern era, like you were you're considerably bigger than him when you guys were standing next to each other. I'm like, this is there's a a big difference.

I've also really focused on getting bigger last three or four fights.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I

You were 83 in a patty fight of Wayne. Yeah. I was 83 [snorts] in a patty fight. So he was

I touched 80s this fight.

Uh we weighed on Saturday at 11. Saturday when I went to bed I think I was 184.

Oh wow.

And then I think when I woke up I was like 176. That's how much we're floating. It's crazy. Our bodies are crazy,

right? Especially because all the weight cutting.

But I think when I got there I was pissing so much. I was actually too hydrated for the drug test. So I had to piss three three times. I couldn't drink water.

You were too hydrated for a drug test. How's that work?

Yeah. So, if if the piss is too diluted, then they make you do it again.

Really?

Yeah.

That's that's why, you know, doing it after a fight. They used to do it after the fight all the time, but

your adrenaline's going so you don't pee, so it takes a long time. Like, we've sat in locker rooms for hours waiting for the piss test. But when you're doing it after like rehydration, that's a shitty thing because these guys have to hydrate. Everybody's [—] taking as much fluids as they can. So, that makes it tough. But with the weight cutting uh piece with him going back down,

I agree [snorts] with I think Ilia is a smaller body, but he's also

a big advantage for Ilia's speed. And when you go up in weight, that speed is a huge factor. And if you see a lot of guys go up like with Max, Max kept it kept his speed when he came up. He when he went back down, I think, you know, everybody was like, "Oh, he beat Max. He beat a drained Max."

Yeah. I think that weight cut down to 45 for him was brutal.

That's And this is where from like a coaching standpoint, if it is hard for you to make it at that weight, I care about the longevity of of a person. And I've seen guys get dropped with jabs because of bad weight cuts.

Yes.

And that going back down and and and that's to me the scariest part in this in this this fight game.

Well, I think there's two things we have to change in the fight game. One of them is weight cutting and two of them is your gloves. You got to bring your [—] gloves in. But the weight cutting thing, don't you think that we need more weight classes?

Uh,

or I shouldn't say that. I should say do you think we need more weight classes? I think there's there's there's many ways like I think you're going to have to have some type of a a weight class and there's different ways to do it. Like maybe you you have where you can't go over a certain amount of weight after you make weight and you weigh in a week out where you can really recover because

I think guys are going to do it anyway and you're just going to have bad performance.

I think I think for me I want nothing to change. I mean we are grown ass men and women and we're making these choices,

right? But you can make 55 and it's good for your frame. Now imagine these guys understand how hard it is for me to make 55.

I'm sure it's hard. No, no, no. I'm not thinking it's easy, but you can make it. You've made it over and over and over

📋 한국어 요약 보기 →

again,

but like think about guys that are in between like 60 or or 65 or like in boxing

70 to 85 is crazy. 85 to 205 is bananas. And then 205 to 265 that's

those weight classes are already watered down in a way and so you're just going to water it down more. So the these are my thoughts and my uh research that I've done that that it's it's I've talked to Dr. D about it. Uh

and I I want to get some expert some doctor who can actually talk to me about this because when I started researching boxing and why is there so many deaths in boxing? What stood out to me was almost every death in boxing in the last 10 to 15 years

comes after there's every once in a while it's from a punch where they get dropped and they don't get up. and uh uh they get hemorrhaging. Almost all of them are past the ninth round, especially the ones I'm talking about that don't take a punch. They're past the ninth round and it looks like they start to get tired and they're just like, "Hey, I need to take a knee and lay down." A lot of these guys are winning the fight and not even taking a lot of damage. And if we're cutting weight the day before, you're teaching your body to sweat and sweat and sweat. to me. I believe because I've had a fighter uh where you know Kamar and his last uh fight we were crapping so bad. So scary. So freaking scary. Like I almost dude I was within like like minutes of calling. I talked to the whole team about it.

But if you de dehydrate yourself, think of my lips. If they get dehydrated, they crack when I smile. And if you dehydrate your brain, and I had talked to Dr. D. I was like, is could that be something? If you dehydrate your brain, would we cause something? He's like, absolutely. And then I started to research that. But if you go back and look at all the boxers and if we can get someone that could do their true research that understands this stuff, that to me is like what scares me about weight cutting because you're training your body to lose that amount of weight and when you start to do things in patterns, you just de took all the nutrients out of your body and then you're going hard in a fight like that. That was like the big thing with the Tony Ferguson fight that's kind of funny now, but it wasn't funny to me. I didn't give no [—] water for five round fight. That is crazy. And the the longer you take your brain to that point of dehydration,

why didn't you give him water? You just forgot,

dude.

Yeah, we were locked in.

This guy don't train with water. So, it's like, dude,

I don't drink water practice cuz everyone's like, "You want water? I'm like, water's for pussies." [laughter]

No, I don't want water.

Talk about the mindset.

You don't drink any water in training at all?

He'll drink afterwards like we did this fight.

They made me this fight.

Okay. So, do you think that that that [laughter]

No, because I it doesn't it can't cuz I'm [—] working right now. I'm locked in. Like I might not get water one day, you know? There might I might want water.

Even when you're doing strength and conditioning, everything.

Nothing. I never drink water during practice.

Wow. So, you make sure you're hydrated before you get in there.

Yeah. I drink a lot after and

but once you're in there, you just going this fight was different. But

that's crazy. That's crazy.

That's just me. That's just hear about those guys that go through Ramadan [—]

You know, Ramadan's nuts. Like, uh, you know, I know Bal was training with no water and, you know, drinking no water during the day and then training again at night time and, you know, that's that's got to be so hard. But

going through hard training sessions and no water. So, you're doing But so there's two things going on. One one I would think maybe you could do more work and get more round more reps in more of this if you're rehydrating

but then the other thing is like

would you and how much mental toughness are you getting by not water right it's a crutch

and the mental toughness thing ultimately won you this fight there is a lot of [—] human beings at the top top level of the sport that would have folded in that second round

you did look the happiest at the Tony Ferguson fight that look you gave me not once not for one Did I contemplate that I was done?

No, I mean you that's that's how you felt.

He hit me. I was like, "Oh, fuck." [laughter]

Hey, did you get to hear him in the corner, dude? He goes He goes, "Dude, that was a good body shot." I was like, "Yeah, that was a sweet body shot." Dude, who does that?

Who sits down is like, "Dude, the look on his face wasn't like like eyebrows like a like a A-frame cabin."

Well, even after the fight, you were talking about how skilled he was. you were you were talking about.

I mean,

I could go I could go so many different ways with how I react to this fight. I just want it to be known how disrespectful he would have been if he beat me. If he put me to sleep, if his I mean, can you imagine how shitty he would have been? And

I mean, it would have it would have it was persona and the world the world would have been [—] shitty. I was fighting for so much.

I was fighting for so much that night.

You know, I'm never going to let people.

For one, I know how special what I've done is and it would have taken all of it away with the loss and I wasn't going to let that happen.

How about the people calling his loaded gloves? Do you see the picture the the the image? There's like rocks in his hands.

People are so stupid,

dude. So stupid.

What a compliment.

Have they not watched any of his fights?

Yeah.

What a people saying I'm juice. What a compliment. People saying I got bricks in my [—] gloves. What a compliment. [laughter]

People are silly. You can't read the internet. There's always going to be someone saying something.

I know. But again, you go I got here cuz I was petty. I I I read comments. I read comments. Um

they fuel you.

They do.

They do. I've I've talked to him. I've told him not to do it because it I'm like, "Bro, this [—] with so many people." We had a conversation outside. Like it it'll cause your mind to go crazy. And he's like, I love it so much.

David Gogggins takes haters and he records them on a loop and then plays it to himself while he runs.

Yeah. I mean, that's crazy.

I don't I don't need to have it on I don't need to have it on video. I know,

right?

I know what they're saying. I knew what they were saying every [—] day,

right?

And that's, you know, partly why I won.

Well, it's, you know, that Teddy Roosevelt quote about the man in the arena, you know.

Yep.

That's what it is. It's like there's always going to be people on the sidelines that are talking.

You're never going to make it's impossible,

especially at the level that you're fighting.

As ambitious as you are, you can never make everybody happy.

No, that's why it's hard to be a champion sucks.

The pressure,

you know, it really is detrimental to like overall like what you're trying to achieve

and it's just it's so hard.

Well, you can't make everybody happy because some people are just not happy period. It's like you being awesome is going to make happy.

Yeah, but some people are not. They're not healthy. They're not mentally healthy. Their brain isn't right. They they haven't done the right things in their life. And they see success as being somehow or another uh it steals their own personal joy. Other [snorts] people's success is bad because they compare themselves to other people and they realize that they suck.

And I love seeing things h good things happen for people. Like when Max knocked me out, I was like, "Good for him." Like [—] imagine what he's feeling right now.

Yeah. But because you have given everything you have. you you've truly maximized your potential. You've made mistakes. You've made great decisions. And ultimately, you wound up winning the biggest fight of all time.

No. To exceed

But that's that's why you can be happy for other people.

To exceed your expectations from 2017, to exceed his expectations from 2011, to exceed my own expectations

is I mean, I cannot describe how special and how good that makes me feel, you know, in general. Like that was my goal.

You didn't exceed a man. You You I always had a feeling that you were going to do some wild [—] And after the Tony Ferguson,

you couldn't have said I was going to do this.

No one could listen.

There was a lot of conversations that I had with people that were counting you out that was like, I don't think I think he can win this fight 100%. I mean, I said it on the podcast. I even said it to Ilia. Like Ilia was saying it was

I was I've seen that podcast and he was so wrong so many times, you know, not just the whole he has zero chance against Patty. He said something about how I probably sleep during the day more than I do at night because I party too much. And it's like you were so you don't remember him saying that.

He said he said something about weed and you're like I don't care about weed.

But

for him to think that that's true is [—] insane.

And you have five looses. [laughter] That's just

dude. Now he's got one lucid. He's going to have to learn how to

I was like, "Wow." I was like, "Wow, what a [—] idiot."

You know, like to to think that I got here by just being a a a guy that drinks and, you know, has fun all the time. Like, that's [—] crazy. My life is so boring. I don't go to bars. I I mean, I don't do any of that. I sleep I sleep eight to 10 hours every single night. I was sleeping 10, but it's too much. So, now I have to sleep eight. But for this whole week, I was sleeping 12 hours every single night of the of the fight week.

That's nice.

It was so [—] nice.

That is nice. You know, it's just one of those things if he wanted to watch your You have a YouTube channel. He could watch

Well, I mean, also something to be said about how I knew he was watching. If you go back to my other like we'll always show sparring. We'll always show me hitting mits. I didn't show myself hitting mits one time this camp. But I didn't show myself sparring one time this camp

purposely cuz we were switching up the game plan big time like the tight punches.

He had no he had he had expectations but they were none of them were based in reality and I controlled that.

That's awesome.

Yeah. And then you know when I did make the when I did make the um comment about his wife you know it was in a um in an interview like this where we're just [—] around and I said it in just I didn't Yeah. I it was 100% true. I was like, he's so [—] annoying. I couldn't imagine being in the same room with him, you know, with his pompous attitude, you know, and you just trying to like hang out with the guy, but he's like constantly stealing all the thunder and it's irrational. And it's like I would leave him too. Like I mean, if that's my part, like that's why I broke up with my girlfriends is cuz they were somewhat like that. [laughter] I mean, and so I I didn't mean it in a mean way like I I would never dig at somebody and I would never make fun of someone's personal experience, but that was like hon that was just my honest take.

You are the honest guy.

And I was joking, but

but it was true.

You just say what you feel.

I said so many two things to him. I said the so many I told him that he's going to go to the second round, go to the third round. You're going to be [—] because you're not going to be able to pull yourself out of this. you know, with the way that you're thinking, there's no possible way you can have these expectations, face adversity, and then come out in a positive way. There's no way it could happen. You're you could dig deep and you could be even more of a narcissist, and it might work, but you, you know, you're going to you're going to walk yourself into a situation that is going to [—] be detrimental to you. And this is detrimental to his psyche. And this is 90% mental.

Well,

so again, I want to see him go. We'll see how he adjusts to the loss. But,

you know,

we'll see how honest he will be with himself.

The strategy has to change that. You You can't just hit the gas like that. And we've seen that with boxers. We've seen that with all kinds of fighters. They just think they can just hit the gas. Well, obviously, you had to make your own adjustments.

Yeah.

You know how he overcame the the Max fight?

How?

He adjusted. [laughter]

Sorry.

Breaking you guys. Didn't you play golf every day for a year? That's how you

Six months straight.

Wow.

Every day, dude. This guy got really good. Yeah. DC was just raving about it. He's like, I never seen anything like it. He goes, "This guy's playing golf like he's been playing for years."

That's crazy.

It's really funny.

It's Well, you know, that's the mindset that's coachable. That's a coachable mindset. Competitive and also

objective. You know, it's the same reason why you think you're not athletic. It's like you you can look at yourself in a critical way and then see what adjustments you have to make where a lot of people are delusional.

Yeah.

And that delusional keeps you from getting good at everything what you perceive. Dude, you got to perspective is everything. Like how are you seeing things? And you always got to see it from the internal not peaks and valleys like this right here. Like we come home and even through the airport like there's no celebration like it is what it is. I mean afterwards like peak no celebration at the airport. And see what we did. Someone was buying us drinks. Like we got there. We got there a little bit early.

Should have been a [—] parade.

No.

I know. But I don't want that.

I know. I know you don't. I don't want you. But I have to do it because I do need to take advantage. Like I am the champion. It's crazy. Still can't fathom it. But I am the champion and I need to I need to be the champion.

And be the champ enjoy being the champion

for a little bit. And you need you to look at yourself in the mirror and be like there's times to sit back and have bliss where you're like, "Man, I freaking did it." Like there's times to really

I thought it I thought that would come down.

Doesn't mean you run down [—] yelling out different brands of mayonnaise with no [—] clothes on and make bad decisions. You're like, "What was that from?" Oh [—] dude. We did [—] three fifths of [—] vodka.

Um, are you going to continue fighting

right now? I am planning on it. Yeah. every

cuz you were talking about I don't have again there's not

there's not something natural in me that feels like it's over

so that's all I can say

also after a performance like that

yeah I mean I'm obviously perform capitalized cuz the financial reward

financial capital but I'm in a I'm in a place where it's like I deserve to be compensated for what I have done

100%

not for what I'm going to do or I don't I shouldn't have to fight next to like UFC 300, UFC 324, and now this. Those are the biggest stages that the UFC needed somebody to to do something phenomenal. And they picked me every single time. And and I delivered. I wasn't the main event of UFC 300, but co-main event still stole the show even though I lost. And so I think I I need to be compensated for for what I've done.

That's where I'm at. So, you're talking about in the future for like a next fight

like

Yeah. Renegotiate.

No, no, no, no. I'm not talking about for the next fight. I'm talking about the UFC should make a company and give me equity in that company and, you know, so I can build passive income like that. Like, I'm not saying that's what that's

Have you talked to them about something?

No. No. I would I would I've never asked. Luckily, I have a personal assistant now, so she asks for things for me, but I've never been the guy that asks for things. I wish I wish people that were opposite of me that ask for things and get all kind of things. I wish I was given those things without asking because obviously people know that it's appreciated and I like it, but I'm not ever going to like I'm not taking this truck from [—] Armen. There's absolutely no way I would take a truck. He never shook my hand.

Oh, this is Armen Sarukin. We should explain that. So Armen Sarukian he [laughter] he bet a million dollars on Justin

his friend

and won he won like 53 I believe

57

57 what I heard 57

say he's going to buy me a truck but I mean I would kind of truck

well now I just saw yours

get a Raptor

I have a Shelby I have a Shelby Raptor pretty dope but I I think now that I've seen your truck that will be my next truck

also it has USA on the side

you see the wrap I love that. You didn't do that rap.

Tennessee does that rap. Hennessy is the [—]

I want that truck.

Oh, you need that truck.

Tell Arman to buy you that [—] truck.

No, I'm not taking the truck.

What the [—] If I was Armen, I would force it down your throat. I would I would deliver it to your house and give you a hug.

No way. [snorts]

You won 5,700 to ride around in a [—] truck that a dude bought from me every day. I don't know. I just can't go that truck. You won that truck.

We didn't shake on it. He does not own it.

I don't give a [—] Take that goddamn truck with you, Joe. Yeah, take the truck, dude. It's first of all, it's cool.

Yeah.

And he might also be your next opponent.

Yeah.

I mean, that's possible.

That's

That's the guy. I mean, he's the guy.

Definitely the guy that's up.

That's the guy. I mean, if there's anybody else in the division, that that is the guy.

I mean, now that Islam is up at 170, who else is there? That's the guy.

I agree.

Yeah. And what a division. I mean, holy [—] And now Charles is saying he wants to

he wants to fight you BMFision BMF and and the lightweight title on the line. That would be crazy.

So there's fights available.

Yes, there is

big big. What do you What are your thoughts like when you're thinking about competing? Who do you think it will be? You think it'll be Armen?

No, I I I can't say that I have a name.

Do you think Elie is going to try for a rematch?

No, he doesn't get a rematch. He can try, but he doesn't get one.

Wow.

He quit on the stool. He quit twice. I stopped him twice. What else do I have to [—] do? Plus, his next challenge can't be me. He needs to fight Patty or someone like that.

Is Does Patty have a fight scheduled?

I think he's fighting

St. Sen.

Yeah. That's tough fight.

It is.

Yeah.

Ben tough game. It's a [—] crazy game, dude.

It's a crazy game. It's the craziest game. I mean, think about where you were when you lost to Max and then where you are now. Just like think of the highs and lows.

Wasn't that long ago either. was not that long ago.

Now you got the the the the BMF champ wanting to fight you.

I have every belt.

Like

I have three three belts. Three real belts. Two ins. But those are [—] real belts.

Mhm.

A real belt, the BMF belt, and then the UFC 250 belt.

Yeah, the UFC 250 belt. So cool, dude. There's only two of those. So heavy. It's heavy. That [—] is freaking

Being a fan of this sport, like what? You want to come in here and do things that are not easily attainable. And I've done a few things that are impossible to obtain attain.

Nine bonuses my first seven fights.

16 fights in the UFC, I probably what, like 12 main events.

Yeah. 17 fights.

And to be put in the main event of a UFC fight is [—] huge. Like, you know, you go on the poster. Not many people get to experience that. And I've done it almost every single time. And so I mean, yeah. I mean, it's I've done something unattainable.

It's got to feel good.

It feels great.

It should as a fan like you as a fan. It feels good,

right? As a fan of yourself.

As a fan of the sport.

As a fan of the sport, getting to see what you've done.

Yeah.

What do you think about zero gone?

We didn't do so good to see it. Didn't see it. We were

We were in the locker room like, "All right, you guys are going to go to a different staging room as soon as Bruce Buffer starts announcing." So they took us into a room with no screens. That's probably where the video of me shadow boxing with the flag.

Yeah, that's where So we were in that we were in there for like 30 minutes before I walked

and we could hear,

you know, a little bit

you hear the I heard the ding of the, you know, the end of the round, the horn. I was like, "Okay, was that round one?" Yes. And then you hear nothing. And then I didn't even hear the finish. Like I didn't hear the crowd roar or anything. And then I heard

and still

Yep.

Right.

Yep. because he was he was

no no it said and new because they were both gonna be new but then they said no we heard gone we heard gone

yeah they heard gone I was like oh [—] he won

bro that guy moves like a cat

it's it's crazy he for a heavyweight I love watching heavyweights that can move like they remember the Mike Tyson era just watching I was I love Mike watching Mike Tyson and just watching all the guys he fought

heavyweight boxing was so good at that time people used to jump rope now it's like like I'm not going to say that that all heavyweights are are are lazy, but you know, my knees are bad. I'm a big person. Like, those guys can move. And Serial Gan is one of those guys.

Well, he's the most so fast.

Well, think about him is he started out as a basketball player.

So, think about basketball. It's all these plyometrics. You're constantly changing direction and moving and jumping.

Yeah. Agility.

Yes. It's all agility. And that translates so brilliantly to his striking style because

you got a guy who's 248 lbs who moves like a middleweight or moves like even lighter than that. I mean, he really moves like a welterweight almost. He's fast.

Yeah.

And just very agile. And when you notice it is like cuz you know how good Pereira is and Pereira getting lit up on his feet like that and then drop with a jab.

It's like woo.

Yeah.

Perfect time.

And it's heavyweights. Like those are big dudes. Like like obviously Pereira's put on some weight, but it's frame size.

Yeah.

It's you know and Pereira's got a big frame, but it's

there's levels.

Your body's been that weight for a long period of time. Like it's again that consistency. It's a it's it's MMA guy going into boxing. Yeah, there's shorter rounds, but you're hitting sprints every round. Like it's a different like there's there's you have to do it for a period of time to be able to adjust to that. That's a different

it's everything that you do, you have to slowly go into those positions. You can't just jump into it.

And when you think about how big he was at 205, it maybe would have even been better for him to not really put on much weight.

I agree 100% agree.

It's not like Sugro's a grappler

and you got to be fast.

Yeah, you got to be fast.

Like your speed's a factor. It's a giant factor. And he's got insane power. I mean, his power has always been heavyweight power.

Absolutely. He's not going to lose his power

because he was so big. He was 251. And I was thinking, man, now it's like even though you have more power, you're also moving around with extra weight on your body. Like you're you're weighed down more by gravity.

I mean, Gan looked so light and so loose. He's just like that style for a heavyweight light on the toes like that is so unusual.

And not allowing Pereira to set his feet.

No, never.

Like that's very smart.

And even like figning takedowns. It's not like he committed to those, but he's got him thinking about. Look at how he drops him with the Now here's the question because one of the things that Pereira is saying is a lot of there's a illegal shot. A lot of the shots were illegal into the back of the head,

but a lot of them were to the side of the head. They're close.

They're close cuz it can also

when they when they explain it to you, it's

it's a 2 in line down like a mohawk.

This this whole this whole apron right here.

But it's like this is legal. This is legal. This is legal. This is illegal. Legal. Illegal. A couple of those shots definitely landed illegally. But there's hammer [laughter] fist. Hammer fist. That first one. Did you see him drop his head down to the hips? So you're moving. That's legal. That's illegal.

Yeah, there's a couple illegal ones.

There's probably three or four,

right? But it it's also movement and chaos. It's not like he's trying to deliberately

That's like poking someone in the eye on purpose. Like if I was that good, I would touch their chin,

right? How [laughter] that's a lot smaller target.

Was the fight stopped there on the ground?

No. No, it kept going. This is This is actually the finish of the fight right here. He caught him with a big elbow right here and rocked him. I mean, Pereira was in real trouble. I mean it was he got [—] up.

Yeah.

And Sirro Gan did a fantastic job. He really put it on him.

Should you ever stop a championship fight?

That was it right there.

I would have

at that point.

Stop it. I'm not saying it wasn't. I haven't watched the fight. So

here here's the stoppage right here. You can see it.

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I haven't either and I'm just watching this. Yeah, that's like he fell.

It was cumulative. It was so many blows. Maybe he could have taken one or two more after that for sure. But Pereira is pissed off at Herb Dean and he's saying Herb Dean should never referee again because he allowed those shots to the back of the head.

I mean you're in the moment. I mean [snorts] fight but that's natural for a fighter to do like like well if a situation you want to first off you got to bring awareness to it so they're not you know they're you have to

always be aware of hey I could have did better here because that's how we all grow. So we need to need to talk about it.

But from what I just watched there and I haven't watched the whole fight. Was the fight competitive at all?

Yes.

Okay. The first round was very good.

Okay, so that would change a little thing, but from what I just watched right there at the end, that was uh

that looked like a good finish to me. The first

the refs the refs have such a tough job. I've been I'm notorious for being

really hard on these refs

because I mean it's they you expect them to be you you need them to be perfect. Their their main job is to protect you. uh when I fought Michael Chandler. I'm still and again I only speak about it now because I've never had a retraction from the referee whenever he poked me in the eye and then he didn't get in between us and he let him hit me with a huge shot and then he doesn't give me my time to rest. not rest to recover. And there was only five seconds left in the round. So it turned out that I got a break anyways. But he goes in there, he says, "Are you good?" I said, "No, I'm not good." He just poked me in the [—] eye and he says, "Okay, but are you good?" And so then it's like, "Can I still fight?" So I said, "Yeah, I'm good." And he says, "Okay, go."

Who what referee was this?

The guy with a braid that he puts in his thing.

Oh, Mike Beltron.

Yeah, Mike Beltron. And so I was very upset that he let Michael Taylor land that that shot. And I I know why he was so scared of the [—] heat we were throwing that he didn't want to jump in there and get in the middle of it. But his job is to protect me. And he failed. He failed so bad right there. And so like after the fact, I was like, I need you to acknowledge this so that you do not ever let that happen to another athlete in there because you [—] up so bad. And you know, he's trying to justify it. And it's like, what the [—] are you doing? How can you justify this? Mhm.

And so that for me that that that pisses me off and then the the decision not to give me my time like

I need an explanation,

you know, and cuz I need to know that you are going to learn from this experience and for right now I still believe that he doesn't think he did anything wrong and so I'm still upset about that.

Well, once you say to someone

because we're petty. We're petty, you know.

Well, you should be in that situation because when you say to someone you got poked in the eye, are you good? And you're like, "Yeah, I'm good, but I got poked in the [—] eye." And then you're supposed to say five minutes.

One or two seconds, but are you good? I said, "Well, yes,

you're supposed you're good is not the right question.

You have five minutes.

Are you ready to fight? Can you see? Do you need to bring in a doctor?" There's a a series of questions, but the you have five minutes is very important for a fighter getting poked in the eye. You have five minutes to recover.

Yeah. I didn't feel like I I didn't know. I didn't know what the point. I was I feel pressure in my face right now. Like I don't this feels

you're not going to know for a couple seconds and you're going to you're going to blink a little bit, move around a little bit. All right, I'm good. And that's when you're it's supposed to be very clear. That's when you're ready to re-engage.

And that's what I'm saying. That's the mistake he has to learn from cuz it was such a And after the the round ends, I walk over to him like, "Dude, get your [—] head out of your ass. What the [—] are you doing?" He's like, "Go to your stool." I was like, "No, what the [—] are you doing? like your job is to protect me. You just let me get hit with a huge [—] shot. What is going on? And he's like, "Go to your stool. Go to your stool." And I sit down and then boom. Never thought about it again. But still pissed off about that one.

You should be. I mean, that's uh that makes sense. I mean, that's a mistake.

Um who's the ref that against Khabib? After the fight, he corners me in the hallway and he's like, "Uh, you know, I know you I know you would never

never tap." I was like, "I tapped three times." He's like, "No, you would never tap." I'm like, I'm like, "Dude, from the horse's mouth, I'm telling you, I tapped." And he still was like, "No, no, you wouldn't tap." I was like, "What the [—] How can we get through this?"

Like, I tapped three times. I went to sleep.

Tapped and you went to sleep. I've seen that.

Yeah. I tapped three times.

100% you tapped.

100%. And then he's like, "No, you would, you know, I know that you with your the way that you compete."

Who's the referee? What's that guy's name? I hate to throw I don't even want to throw Herszog I don't even want to throw him under the bus you know because it's like

his intent his intentions were good for me you know he believed I was

he gave you a chance

gave me a chance but like I [—] tapped man like I did the fight [clears throat] should have been

and I went to sleep because of it and luckily there's no detrimental and chronic

you know long lasting problems because of getting choked out

so I mean there's no repercussions yeah there's no concussion there's no TBI

like it really is not detrimental at all. As long as you don't hold it too long and I die. As long as I wake up, I'm good.

Right?

And so I was like, "Okay, like the repercussions aren't as severe." And so like whatever, I'll just let this go. But ultimately, he did. I mean, I was even when I told him he didn't believe me.

That was the first thing you said when you jumped up. You went over to him and then you guys had the conversation afterwards, but you went over to him saying, "Dude, what the [—] I tapped."

And then he's like, "No, you didn't." And then then we seen him later. But that was

No, you didn't. was like, "Dude, I tapped three times. I tapped three [—] times."

Yeah, it was pretty obvious.

People make mistakes and they don't see.

And everyone was like, "Oh, you said, you know, you're some kind of [—] you think you're some kind of Superman. Why would you tap?" It's like when your life is ending, you know, you're a fool if you don't understand that. Like, I knew I was dying

and that's just where I was.

Yeah.

So, that's how crazy you are to everybody. He's in their eyes are like, "No, dude. Like, I know you better than you do. You never tap." Like,

you kind of fight like that. That's what I mean. People think the best

that's how he

the best thing up to this moment is people

people don't give me credit for my intellectual abilities. And I've also played into that. And I've also understood how big of an asset it is for people to approach me like that. You know, thinking that I'm just some animal that doesn't think or feel or whatever whatever people think or think I'm [—] Well, I think what it is is when you are such an animal, people think you can't be smart because a smart person would be aware of the consequences and wouldn't have the courage to fight the way you fight. That's all it is. And they and people who don't have that kind of courage, they like to dismiss people that fight like savages because they go, "Well, savages can't be smart." That's not right. That's not correct. People, it's like you see a really hot woman, you go, she's got to be a [—] Like, no. Some of them are really [—] smart and also hot, you know, like [laughter] like the world is confusing and you can't categorize people and put them into things little little u you know, little [—] boxes just to make you feel better.

Yeah,

that's all it is, you know, and you're

and the thing is I never signed up like when we were walking out to the the press conference, there's like 12 15,000 people out there. I look at the guy, I was like, "Dude, I never ever signed up to be a public speaker. What the [—] are we doing here? Like I never wanted to be in this where I talk in front of this many people. Like that's not what I prepared myself for ever. And now I'm in this situation where I have to, you know, every single word I get I say before these fights is analyzed by the world. Like the whole, you know, my father is my dad. Like [laughter] sometimes I get tongue tied.

Sometimes I miss I do too and I talk for a living.

That's what I mean. But but nobody if people unders if had to listen to themselves, they would understand that they also make mistakes. And so it's like,

[—] man. Like I can't be perfect. I'm sorry. I I really wish I didn't meet my dad as my father. Even though,

you know, it [—] makes sense. And it's [laughter] true.

Listen, you you're dealing with a bunch of people that have to write stories. They have to.

It's not It's not about writing a story because something's interesting. They have to make a story. No matter what it is, there is to create content. And when you your job is to create content, you make content out of nothing. And it's not usually it's usually not good.

And that's what they're doing. They're making great deals out of nothing.

If I could have been mentally coached, it would have been in that aspect.

Public speaking

just like

I think you speak very well.

No, no, it's like uh I there's just I guess there's no lesson to learn like you just have to do it. It's through experience.

It's like fighting. You just do it a bunch of times and you get comfortable with it. Or you're naturally talented like Connor.

You know who the [—] is that guy?

Smart guy.

Yeah,

he's great at that. Like he's fantastic at that [—] I mean that's where he shines.

You ain't lying. You are like Tom Petty. [snorts]

Tom Petty and Heartbreakers. You are Petty, dude. Who cares what people think?

I think he speaks great, right?

I like, you know, I like to see what people are saying about my our interview and, you know, because I want to see the perception. I want to

just keep inspiring.

Yeah. The thing is, you're asking for the perceptions from people that you would probably never [—] talk to in real life because they're dumb and annoying. And those are the people that are most likely going to comment. The people that are most likely going to You think Michael Jordan's out there leaving YouTube comments? No. Right. It's not people that have their [—] [—] together and have big goals. People who are really dialed in and really [—] disciplined and the people whose opinions you'd respect, they're not leaving comments.

They're certainly not leaving shitty comments. You nailed that. That's

It's just the reality. And I'm not hating on these people. I'm just saying like I would have been one of them. If you if somebody gave me a [—] YouTube account when I was 17, I'd be posting the most horrible [—] about everybody, [laughter]

right? Everybody would. You're a kid. You're or you're a dumbass. You don't have your life together yet. But that's the type you can't listen to them and take that as gospel cuz it's just not.

Just seeing him walk through the airport and just everybody's perception when they see you and meet you is so great, dude. Like it's like people that like like

bro the haters if the haters met you they're like bro I'm a big fan.

Yeah. But still but it's but one of those things is like the inspiration on people like the everybody comes up and they're your favorite fighter. Like to have the brand that you're the the your favorite fighter favorite fighter like that is unique.

Yeah.

That is like such a cool thing. Like you just keep inspiring and

very proud of it.

Be you.

You should be

should be so proud. You should be.

Yeah. So, um, I asked you after the fight if you were going to fight again. You said you promised your mom you weren't going to make a decision. And so, it just settled in. I mean, we're today we're here. It's Friday. The fight was just Sunday, so it was five days ago.

So, now you're just like, [—] you can't. How do you not after that? I mean, you're the [—] champ. It would be great to go out like that. It'd be the an amazing cap, but also great to have at least one more.

Yeah, we'll see. People like to watch chaos at the highest level controlled chaos.

You know, it'll never be that chaos again because it'll never be like

It's hard to understand

fighter jet flyovers. And

it's hard to understand how dangerous this game is if you don't do it

right.

And so

is it impossible?

Yeah.

So that'll be a huge

that's a huge factor. There's a lot there's a lot of variables that I have to contemplate when it comes to that decision. Do you have a timeline in your head?

I do know. So, you can't remember a time I've fought two times in six months in the UFC. I fought two times this year already in less than six months. And so, I'm going to take the rest of the year. I need my body to heal that. I I mean, I have what's the [—] diagnosis? I have a severe bone edema in the tip of my fibula. That happened on Christmas and I have been dealing with that since Christmas day.

So a bone ble bleed like a bruised bruise. Yeah, it's in the bone marrow of the tip of my fibula. Tip of my tibula clacked against my femur

and it caused a hu a deep deep bruise and I cannot get it to heal because I went, you know, I was going through training camp. It really hurt after the Patty fight.

When are you leaving? When when are you leaving today?

Will you fly out at like 6:30?

It's 3:00. I got I want to see if I can get you into waste. Well, let me text Brighgum and see if they could [sighs]

jab some [—] stem cells in there before you

I mean I've got I I've gone to Vegas. I've got stem cells multiple times PRP special place.

PRP put me on crutches. It was crazy. And then I did a cortisone shot um the Friday before I left.

Wow.

And that that helped a lot.

Well, not training is really what it needs, right? And have you been doing any hyperbaric train chamber stuff?

No. That's huge for recovery.

You have no idea how against my process you guys would be. I mean, I think I got two I probably had two

massages this camp. [laughter]

That's amazing. Well, it's really funny if you look at the difference between Ilia has a u YouTube channel as well where it's fantastic really goes into depth, but they're using like all this high techch neuro stimulation head gear and he's doing all these different things and it's all

You seen the video? It's got him doing that and then me taking a 420

dab. Exactly. [laughter] Did you see our video where he had the the the dog chocker on his forehead? Every time he got [laughter] straight with his legs, it got flat. I hit the button. Bent his legs again.

No, we uh covered our eyes and threw balls at each other [laughter]

trying to tap into those intuitive abilities.

Yeah, right. Yeah. With your eyes closed.

But I mean, dude, like

you're funny.

I come from the [—] dirt, you know? My parents [—] up. They didn't put a golf club in my hand at four years old. They threw me in the dirt and you know I became comfortable with the uncomfortable.

That's a giant factor though. Being comfortable with being uncomfortable is a huge asset.

Yeah.

It's such a

It is

with everything in life. With everything in life.

I think wrestling is definitely definitely has the biggest variable when it comes to my success. I mean the mental the mental side of it like nobody can it's very similar to fighting in the fact that nobody can help you you know it is against you all the blame is on you all the success goes to you and you can never use somebody else as an excuse any team setting I played football I played baseball soccer swim team swim team's a little different but you know there's always a justification for why you failed or why you lost when it comes to those and you could always point to somewhere else or at least a piece even if it's one or two% somebody else's fault then it then you can justify it the loss

in in wrestling that's never the case

not only that it's a combat sport that's acceptable in high school like it's a combat sport that you take in junior high school you take in high school and kids learn like there's there's guys out there that are different they're working harder than you more aggressive than you They want it more than you. They put in more time than you.

And that's a learn that's a lesson that's very valuable when a kid cuz kids get delusional about what their abilities are, how special they are, who they are. When you get [—] flatlined by some dude who just [—] picks you up and slams you on your back and pins you and you're like, and he could do it anytime he wants. And this is the reality of training with this guy. Like over and over and over again. You're like, "Oh, great. He lateral drops you in front of the whole class. Oh great." like this is this is reality now. You either going to get better

or this is going to keep happening to you over and over and over again. And the mental toughness that comes out of kids that grind it out in wrestling and learn how to wrestle uncomfortable, learn how to cut weight at an early age,

all that shit's terrible for you, but the mental aspect of it is [—] undeniable. Think about how many great wrestlers have become great MMA champions. Absolutely.

It's the most important foundation. great business people like they I watched a study a long time ago. They said that the boxing and wrestling uh created the best employees because accountability.

Yes. you know, and again, the cutting the weight like you're responsible. Like that's this that's this what I love about Justin is

what makes it so nice to train him is and highle people like I've had the luck to be able to train some highle guys lately and I don't have to deal with any [—] like you know and it's if I hold myself accountable then there's we don't have to have these deep conversations or get our feelings hurt that we're just true to it. His accountability for everything is just there's there's nothing like it and I I credit that to his parents. His parents are just such amazing people and the way that they had raised him to hold, you know, cuz he screwed up a lot as a kid. I I told him if we were hanging out when we were younger, we got a lot of trouble cuz he reminded me of myself, super hyper like like making super bad decisions, but getting punished, getting grounded, getting not not being able to go out late at night, like strict parents and that being able to understand that there is rules in life and you have to be accountable. If you screw up, you got to deal with the punishment and that is it comes from your parents and I agree. parents being such good people. Um, so my mindset has always since I was a kid, I have looked up, so the reason I take comments online and I read them, I've always looked up and given every single person I've ever interacted with the benefit of the doubt of being good. And whether it's what they're saying, what they're doing, their actions, everybody's been my role model. I've never never looked at myself as a role model. I've always looked at whether no matter what I even strangers like I trust that they're going to that they're good and that's where I start my that's where I start everywhere from and um so reading comments online like I I truly take into account what what I'm reading you know and I don't know why cuz I know it doesn't matter a lot of the times a lot of these probably [—] 13 14 year old kids but I in my mind they're 50-year-old you know men with the experience and I just try to use as much and as much of the readily available information, comments, words, action as I can from a place of like I feel like a child in a sense when it comes to like interacting with people. And I don't know, I don't know why that's how I take it or that's how I do it, but it makes everything, you know, a little bit better and I'm not as disappointed as much because like once I learn that they're not that or they're not good and they can't help me, then I don't be like, "Oh, that's a bad person." I'm just like, "Okay, I'm not going to have that experience again."

Well, that's a good perspective. It sounds like you use it then. And that's listen, everyone's different and if you can handle it and you don't get mentally ill from reading comments,

that's a rare you're a rare person.

We had many conversations. That's what my

I went to school for human service. I love to help people. You have no idea how much joy it brings me to assist people to make people's life better to lift someone's spirit. I mean those that is what makes me feel alive and that comes through my faith um and through my parents. You know my [clears throat] parents are such good people. They deserve so much more than than most parents because of their actions and their example that they showed for me. And yeah, I'm just so grateful to be the person that I am because, you know, it makes life easier. Life is easy. Life is so easy when you're not concerned about what people think, when you're not worried about things that you can't control.

Well, it's also easy if you're a good person.

Well, but I couldn't be a good person without the example of my parents. You have no idea how good

and naive my parents are. And when I say naive, it's in such a good way

because they haven't done the bad things that most of us have done. And I and I failed him. And the last time I ever did drugs, I woke up in an ambulance and I'm pretty sure I died. And I was like, I will never [—] do that again. My parents do not deserve that. And that was probably 2016.

Wow.

And I was like, I will never touch that again ever. My parents do not deserve that. And that was that's why I'm here.

Well, good for you, dude. That's awesome. And it's great that you have such an awesome relationship with your parents and it really does seem like that attitude that you have is very freeing

in a lot of ways.

It is. It really is.

Yeah.

Golf,

weed.

Trevor, let's talk about those gloves. What the [—] do we have to do to get your gloves into the UFC? It doesn't make any sense that we're using inferior gloves.

Wait, I want Obviously, I want to talk about this, but the gloves I fought in this week were different. They are

they felt they it was a different it was the same same glove the leather was different. It was a little bit thicker I think and so it was softer and so every time I've ever fought I've had the most excruciating pain in between my hands right here and I didn't feel that at all this fight

because they were thicker. So it's like if you have like a thinner material going through it's going to cut through the skin a little easier tighter material. This was looser

because it was thicker. It was weird. So it was better

better

better for that feeling that all fighters

better for comfortability. Yeah. Like you guys have no idea how uncomfortable

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we are when we

you're always like pulling on the glove to pull it back. It's like getting a hand wrap too tight and you get those little things between

pulling on the tongue here.

So you make a fist squeezes harder.

Mhm.

But he this guy's a genius. He can [—] make anything.

Uh so Hunter reached out to me three weeks ago, four weeks ago and said he wanted to ignite the conversation again. So we'll see where that goes. But uh you know uh from that first position that we were in uh a lot of things happened uh in a great thing. I always told you it was going to be timing. Timing is everything. And uh they did the right thing and tried to make what we had spoke about. You know we had NDA and uh uh we had a 5-year and they moved it to a two-year. Took a lot of great notes and I'm very grateful to be a part of those because they did go out there and use a lot of the ideas that I had. Uh but they just couldn't do it uh to the level that I could do it. and uh I I thought it was super cool that they were trying cuz uh it was a it's a problem that they don't really see and understand. So I think they're they're in the right mindset and you know them helping the athletes I thought was a great great thing to do. Uh but during that time when I was going to talk to I actually brought the gloves and it was when you were fighting on 300 uh we were out there and I I had a new patent that I had been working on so we could go opposite direction if they want to own it. It's a separate patent from the patent that I had that goes in all of our products, the internal strapping. This was a new patent still with internal strapping, but a a more dialed in for it fight glove. And then we had those two options. And then when we got there, Ali had told me that uh they're releasing a new glove. And uh so we have, you know, two versions now, which is super cool. And uh yeah, I think it'll go great.

Here's the conversation, though. Like what are you trying to fix?

Eye pokes.

Okay. Eye pokes are big.

That is not possible.

You don't think it's possible to make less eye pokes?

You can make less.

You can make less, but you'll never stop.

You're never going to stop. Well, of course, you're not going to stop it because the fingers are out.

The issue is the athlete. The issue is the comfortability of the athlete and the performance of the athlete. That is where your um ambition has to lie when it comes to making the glove better because the thing [clears throat] the gloves we're fighting in now are [—] terrible. You have no they uh it's hard to make a fist. You have to use your entire muscle of your arm to make a fist. And so by the time we get to the fight, this is already

um your

exhausted exhausted. And then the pressure in between your fingers is like something you can't replicate.

Let me ask you this. Do you think it's possible to make something that's like a mitten? Something that covers over the tips of the fingers. You would have [—] 80% less eye pokes.

I do think you could do that in time. I don't think that's that change is hard for everybody, Joe. And that's a huge change for grapplers and things like that. But but so you're a grappler. So you're a grappler. Most people are going to say, "Well, that's going to affect this or my certain lock or uh you know, they try it, but again, it's it's

it would enhance it." The only the problem would be like rear naked chokes like getting the hand behind the head. You have more thickness like it's regular gloves are a problem already. But is it more of a problem just to have the fingers covered with the regular glove? I think it's the same. It might actually

it might actually even slip in better. But the thing is it's like covering the tips with like a mitten like those old school Everlast bag gloves. I just don't I think it's a different sport now.

But why? You can still clinch. You can still do everything. That's what I'm talking about. You take guys to the ground, everything's the same. You can still grapple.

This is telling me so much right now. Like, and if you take that away from me. Yeah.

Right.

Like that is a that's a huge factor when it comes to intuitive abilities.

Okay. Like explain that to me. Like what are you feeling with your fingertips that you think would be missing?

Well, it's not the fingert It's when you It's my hand. Like he [snorts] moves away. He he moves any direction. like I can make that read and now he's farther and now he's there.

Right.

And I think if you're going to take touch away from us that would deter our intuitive abilities.

I wonder I wonder how much

but I also think you have to understand where as a fighter for me it's like when I am relaxed when I'm relaxed and if my hand can be in this position when I'm relaxed then I'm okay then then then there's not going to be as many eye pokes. But when I relax and it goes like this,

right?

Like and now I have the gloves force your hand. Now I have to do this. I'm naturally You're never going to take the human reaction and instinct away to protect yourself. And the instinct to protect yourself is

no, right? Like

that is the instinct. It's natural. It's intuitive and it has to be that because

you're trying to get your your chin tucked behind your shoulders so that you don't get hit. But the uncomfortability and like the strenuous

effort it takes to make a fist is [—] stupid.

It's stupid. And this is the difference between your gloves and the current UFC gloves.

My gloves your hand. My My gloves are are one of those things that

it promotes a natural hand.

Natural position, a better grip, better fist position where I'm not when I squeeze my fist and I have the wrap on, it doesn't pull my hand up like this. And when you see guys touch gloves, they're usually like this.

Uhhuh. Not like this, right? And it's lining the bones up for, you know, again, they they said that the last gloves were causing less knockouts. Our gloves were going to cause more knockouts because of better hand position, better grip strength. I'm being able to have holds like if I'm holding someone's

protection for your hands, less broken hands and internal strapping. Like that is a huge thing. Like my goal at a certain point would to have where you can't have hand wraps on.

Like if you have a glove that's actually protecting your hand,

but you have the gloves on that now it's equal 100%. Because if you got one person that adds more more padding or less padding or double layers tape, like there's many different things that you can do. And that to me, it's like if if I if one fighter has tape wrapping their hands and then the other one has house wrapping their hands, they're wrapping differently. Which one's better for breaks? Which one's better for punching? Like

like so having that that's would be really cool. And that's that's the difference with like like our gloves. I'll show you. I've never broke my hand when he's ever taped my hands.

Like his tape job is I I can't wait to show it off to the commission. Every single time I'm like, "Look at that.

Tell me you've seen a better one than that tonight." And every time they're like, "I don't think so."

You got gloves.

Of course you did. [laughter] Of course you did. They're my favorite by far. And ladies and gentlemen at home, if you're just listening, the difference between Trevor's gloves and everybody else's gloves. One of the big differences is that you could see if you're looking at on see how they're curved, folks. Looks like a hand.

The regular gloves from the UFC are not. They're straight just like this. So these gloves promote a natural punching position. Look, without even putting them on, they're already in that position. And then when you put them on, they're damn near perfect. The padding is amazing. They're fantastic to hit the bag with. They're just [—] awesome. And they and more importantly, look how what they promote. So my hand is totally dead relaxed and it promotes a closed fist position.

The cool part, Joe, is this. This is what I was talking about.

So this is a he's doing the internal strapping right now.

This strap is coming from over here. So that's going to pull this in. As you notice, we got pad on the side. So there's no like the all the other gloves, the padding coming down on a single knuckle. But again, this strap is going to really seal you in.

Oh, yeah. Uh, and then this one. So,

Oh, so these are better than the last ones you brought here. Oh, this is [—] fantastic.

Listen, I've been dialing in finding the right product.

Oh my god. You don't even need hand wraps. Well, you had told me before that when you hit the bag with his gloves, his bag gloves.

I haven't used I haven't wrapped my hands since 2015.

Piper doesn't fight with hand wraps on, which is crazy. You guys don't.

And it can get to the point if we have the right protection. It's awesome.

This is so superior to the UFC gloves. I mean, the fact that this isn't being used

by the UFC right now is [—] crazy.

We're going to get it done.

I hope so. Hey, you know what? I've been trying so hard.

I stepped away from like the business this part. I'm the visionary now. So, I got right people that know how to make deals. So, it's it's right and that the UFC is going to be happy because

we were ready.

Yeah, dude. I'm They're like, "Dude, you know, I don't think

that was me versus Kabib.

I take full responsibility."

Oh, I believe it

that I didn't know that you could do deals all these different ways. You know, when they'd say what they wanted to do, I was like, "Yeah, that's not healthy."

This feels so good. It's so better.

So better.

It's just much better. It's like

when you put it on the back, I want to hit something.

Well, this is one of the things that I love about you is that you're so [—] creative with stuff and you're you're constantly trying to

Every single piece of equipment I have trained with for the last

Dude, these So, we see so many.

So, this is your training bag, your training.

Yeah, that's that's what I train in. Yep.

Nice.

I hit pads in that. Never. I've never wore hand wraps once.

Oh, that's fantastic.

Thumb in there. But watch how you can't open uh your hand to to go straight out.

Mhm.

And then the pointer knuckle protecting that pointer knuckle is so big.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's it, right? Nice. Oh, it's so nice.

Yeah. Then you you open you can still grip,

right? You can still grip grab things. It hardened chokes.

And the and the door knocking knuckles. This is what lands a lot. people with those.

I bet you do.

You got to go palm to palm, right? But still, it's just

Those are yours, too.

Fantastic. Oh, thank you.

Yeah. And then I got you another pair of X Factors, too, cuz

you got big hands. So, I remember I gave you the 60s. You're like, "Bro, things ain't going to work for me."

Yeah. I got big hands for a little dude. Unusual.

Yeah, we'll we'll get it done. But, uh I mean,

anytime you want to.

I'm so happy. I'm so happy you're going to get it done cuz I pushed for it so many times. I brought it up to Dana. I brought it up to everybody. I was like, "Listen, what the [—] are we doing? You guys spent a million billion dollars trying to make these new gloves. You got rid of them in 3 months."

That's cuz And this

could sound bad. That's cuz they've never thought about the fighter.

But they did. They tried. They tried to make me. They tried. They tried.

They didn't [—] try.

Yeah, they did, dude. They You know how much money? I'm not going to tell you how much money they put. They put They did, dude.

To do what? To give me the same exact [—] product.

They thought they were making a bet. They hired people that people don't know what the [—] they're doing.

They hired a company that works on football.

What did they change in their glove?

But they don't know. They They took the ideas. At least they tried. They did. I will give them 100% correct.

They did try. But I remember seeing the gloves when they tried and going, "These suck. These are not as good." I'm like, right away I was still uncomfortable. Still hurt my hand. I said to him right away, "Why don't you just get Trevor's gloves? What the [—] are we doing here?" No, these are good. These are good.

Get the [—] The best gloves exist. They're already made. Like there's only a few people out there that are willing to like really get creative and redesign and engineer gloves. And when someone does it to the extent that you've done it, like God.

So Joe, when you think about that,

that's that's where I think I fit in well with this because I want to evolve with the company. And if we change one thing, like my first thing I want to do is help a performance. I don't want someone to hurt their hand where all a sudden I hurt my hand on the top of your head and I just left-handed now and everybody just, you know, there's no pay-per-view now, but I pay to watch these fights. And now the guy that I wanted to see fight can't continue because he hurt his hand. So, we fixed that problem. We fixed longer, better grip strength for the the grapplers who are going to need to have wrist control when throwing shots. I want to help athletes perform. And as we go, let's slowly develop and test with the athletes and find out what because it's about the athlete. It's what works for them. And when we can get gloves on people and try something like you were talking about, that'll take time. You have to train it and go, "Oh, I actually like this better." And there's the pros and cons. There's pros and cons to everything, right? So,

it would take time. And that's where where I'm passionate about is let's find a problem and let me think through solving it. But I need to know what that

problem gear. And we should send everybody to your website. It's is it Onyx?

Yeah. Oxports. Onyx.com. Yep. A lot of people spell it with a gloves. The best shin pads.

You have the best equipment. And it's [—] phenomenal. There it is right there. That's the website. Onyx Sports. It's [—] fantastic stuff. I mean, it's really obvious that it's a highle coach who's developed all this [—] I mean, everything you make is top of the food chain.

Got the best tester in the world, baby. My heart, dude.

I [—] break everything.

I'm sure.

And I can't I cannot I cannot break these gloves. [laughter] I cannot break these gloves. I have to switch every like six months because

I wear the foam out so much. So, I don't ever want to hurt my

But you got two or three sessions of training every day. Like that's for a typical person, these gloves are going to last well over I uh Cory had his shinuards for four years.

I had my shin guards for like three years.

Yeah.

And when you think about the amount of damage that that three years entails, that's pretty [—] incredible for pieces of leather and foam. Yeah. You're so much [—]

soaked with sweat. Everything's getting broken down and moisturized and then drying out again and crap.

Hey, that's the our bags that were up there. Mhm.

Dude, we got connectors for the shin guards and the knee pads on the outside. So, all your equipment is on the outside of the bag to dry.

Yeah. So, that's that's really cool, too. So, just trying to rethink uh how things work. So,

that's what I love about the way you approach things. You're always like fixing the problem.

I can't stand when we're not even working on kickboxing and someone's kicking and it's because they're [—] gear. You know,

that was the worst thing about fixing my nose [—] smelling people. I was like, "Oh my god, people." [laughter]

You know how the gym is, especially with geese, right? Like you get that bro like

the dudes who don't wash their geese. Those guys are That's That's a real problem.

It's a real problem.

And those are the ones who always give you [—] cooties, too,

dude. Oh,

right.

So nasty.

Yeah, it's nasty. Listen, Justin. Uh I just want I'm so glad you're not going to fight to the end of the year like for whenever. Just enjoy that cuz that was a [—] masterpiece. Yes,

sir.

It was beautiful to be there.

And I I felt so

American. I felt so hard to represent this country because we're such a melting pot

and I think I have done it. I think I achieved that and so I'm very very proud of that.

Dude, you did it in spades. I mean, you did it five stars. It was [—] phenomenal. It was one of the greatest events that any sporting event has ever put on. I mean, maybe the greatest sporting event in the history of the world.

I said it before, this is going to be like some Miracle on Ice [—]

It was, man. It really was.

I knew I knew I knew I had the opportunity to do something special.

He did it and then he [laughter] come down Yeah, I want to see my family.

It was incredible. That was so cool.

Look how cool that is.

Look how cool that is. That is so amazing. That's so [—] amazing.

It was an amazing night, dude. I'm so happy I went. I'm so happy I was there to see it live. It was a real

I was I was honestly really nervous, Joe. I was like, "Dude, there's like just again being around everybody and something could happen. The drones that could, you know, that they stopped." Like

again, I wasn't knowing what to expect and then tell after the fight cuz again, we couldn't take it in. It was a beautiful thing. And Justin,

I was like, "Fuck it. If I get taken out in the middle of the cage, how [—] legendary would that be?"

I said to Trump, I go, "I hope we don't die in a terrorist attack." I said to Trump, "I hope we don't die in a terrorist attack." He goes, "We got to go somehow."

I go,

that's funny. Yeah. Like this [laughter] everyone will remember it for the rest of eternity.

But no, I'll pass.

Sign me up. [snorts]

Better the way it went. The way it went. Way better. That's a way better outcome.

Way better. Well, hey, brother. Thank you for coming here. Congratulations.

Masterpiece. Both of you.

Let's go hunting. I want to go hunting. I just got uh I'm going to shoot.

I saw this on the Go Hunt website. You went analopee hunting.

Yeah, that's awesome. Do you see thousand yard shot,

dude? Check it out. Check it out. We [—] missed our ass off. We were in the It was windy. These things do not stop moving. They could see us forever. And they just kept going. And we were on shoot. We couldn't get prone. So, we had to, you know, you you're every hunt you're like, I'm going to have a prone position. I'm going to shoot from

We cannot get in a prone position. So, we're on shooting sticks trying to manipulate the sticks and take shots.

We were prehistoric.

So, Luke Luke misses from 140 yards.

Dude, the story was so Luke 1,093 yards and

hits it in the head, drops it [laughter]

and we're just like, "What the [—] Luke? How

How do you hit that shot and miss 100?" This is uh Yeah. Look at this.

Wow. That's crazy.

1922.

Was he shooting for the head?

No, I don't even know if he hit it. I mean, it was shot in the neck. Yeah. He got her in the neck. It was Well, 1,000 yards. Who knows how much

you're just trying to hit the center of the [—] target. Boy, and these crazy prairies, too. The kind of wind drift you're dealing with,

dude. And they they don't they can see for miles. These things do not stop moving.

No, they're they evolved to get away from cheetahs. They used to be North American cheetahs.

And so, North America, this is all before the younger dest. So, it was like when somewhere around 11,800 years ago, 65% of all North American mammals went extinct. And there was American lion that was bigger than the African lion. And then there was a cheetah. And these [—] these guys evolved to get away from cheetahs. So they can run like 55 miles an hour for [—] [—] crazy though. Evolution. Wow. When you look at them, they look prehistoric. Their eyeballs are like way out here.

It's crazy how good a decoy works with them though.

Oh, horses too. Guys walk right up on them on horses.

Get a muk thing. Just walk right behind that.

Walk right behind them and then you can That's how archery hunters do it a lot

cuz you have to get Yeah.

Very tough to sneak sneak up on them. Do you do bow hunt? Do you ever bow hunt?

No.

No. Would you want to learn? You would love it. Fall in love with it. Just like I have a bow.

Just hasn't hunted.

I shot an elk and did not recover it. And I've told myself that I will never go

archery hunting unless I have the time and effort

to be 100% ready to make that shot. Right.

And so right now it's just rifle.

Well, rifle is always going to be the most effective way. It's still an awesome way. Who's white tail in Arizona is my favorite hunt.

Oh, really?

You should go on that with me one of these days.

That's a fun hunt. Those are tiny little guys. The little gray ghost.

I grew up there, so my my buddies their whole life have looked We could go out there. We wouldn't find [—] right?

They're [—] everywhere, but find them.

They call them the gray ghost, and my buddies can find them. And it's such a fun hunt.

Yeah, it's a great hunt. Well, Arizona is a great hunting state, too. You have some of the best elk in the country.

Yep.

Yeah. Gentlemen, again, congratulations. Absolute masterpiece Sunday night one for history. One of maybe the greatest event in the history of the sport.

I mean Joe Rogan again, baby.

Anytime. [laughter] Let's do it one more time. Let's do it one more time when you do decide to wrap it up. Thank you guys. Thank you. And onyxports.com. Get the best clubs in the world.

My brother. Thank you. All right. Bye.

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