Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. All day. All right. Good to see you, champ. Yes, sir. We were just trying to figure out how long it's been. How what year? When was
fight with Usyk was one of the craziest things that I've ever seen in my life. Never in my life did I think a guy who would go straight from kickboxing. Did you have any professional boxing matches? One. one one professional. I've been boxing for 15 years,
up by one round and what the other ones had a draw. Yeah, it I think that's that's a crime. If that went to the scorecards and somehow another you lost that decision, that would have been a crime. A crime. I know. And I got to be honest, I think
right the it's very difficult to accept and if you had lost by decision it would have been insanity and we've seen those insane decisions before and I never know what's going on. You know, I don't want to think it's corruption, but it's almost worse if it's incompetence. If you have someone who's judging a fight,
fights, you've had wars and to come out on top every single [ __ ] time. Yeah. And then you have this enormous fight and you have terrible judging. Yeah. Terrible judging. And it's like it's almost worse if it's incompetence
I think three is too few. Yeah, cuz you could have two people [ __ ] it up and one person gets it right. And then But if you had two more judges, the odds are they're going to get it right, too. The usually the people that [ __ ] it up, it's the minority.
whatever there is. This is what what's happening but within this situation it's just like if if you ask me and it's still possible it's a human being the referee made a mistake and that is possible but there should be people or a situation where it's like hey sorry ref but you made a mistake. this is this
Yeah. But that's the thing we uh I appealed it. I appealed it. Mhm. And and everything we appealed upon we got they said like you guys were right. We got stopped after the bell. Yes. The right after the after the stoppage
Because if they did, you might have lost that fight which is even crazier. Yeah. But then but then you have something like, "Hey guys, let's look at the the scoring cards again and let like and other people other judges look at the scorecards and look at the fight and score it again because
think like with this fight, he saw like this was a little harder than I expected. So let's take it let's take a different route. And for me, I don't want a rematch just to have the rematch. I would like the rematch because it makes sense. There's a story within this rematch. It's huge
respect to Deontay. I love that guy. He's one of the greatest knockout artists in the history of the heavyweight division. He's not the same guy. No, he's not the same guy for whatever reason. Just It happens to everybody,
huge." [laughter] Like, you realize how big you are. And you know, Usyk is a cruiserweight. He's a cruiser to put on weight to become. He could still make cruiser if he wanted to. If he wanted to get really lean, he could still make cruiser easily.
live in the gym. That's what And you know as well like I I I love this. So I don't I'm never going to lose on on cardio because then I lose for myself. So, you know, you're an anomaly in terms of like 260 lb men. There's very few guys that are as big as you that push a pace like you did. So, I wasn't when
Exactly. Making the biggest making the biggest upset in boxing history. That would be Yeah, that would be pretty crazy, right? It really almost was the biggest upset in boxing history. I mean, it was crazy. It was really crazy to watch, man. But you were the perfect guy to do it
"Brother, you need to be in boxing." Because he was at at the tournament when I did the eight-man tournament a few years ago. And so, he comes to my fights and he's like, "Oh, you you got to be you got to be in here. You got to kill these guys." I said, "Yeah, yeah, I I think I could do pretty good." He's
that went like how it went. And then they reached out like can we push the fight a little bit instead of February to March like I'm good. The more time I get the better so to train to to transition into boxing. So that happened and then the end of the year
Yeah, it was our idea. I'm like, "Yeah, that makes sense. Why not?" Because he's the he's the top dog. He's like undisputed kickboxing champion versus the undisputed boxing champion. Like, there's a story there. Yeah. It's like, let's just throw it out
go. We're going to shock the world. Well you know it's not like you had a lifetime of striking. It's only the difference is removing the kicks. That's all. Yeah. But the thing is like the boxing fans, the straight up boxing fans, they're not too much into MMA and
right. That's true. But we don't care honestly in the in MMA. No, I mean Alex Pereira was the biggest star in the sport is Yeah, exactly. But Brazilian doesn't speak English at all. Only speaks Portuguese and whatever other language is tribal language. And so you then you
Yeah. 100%. 100%. And it's it's a part of MMA. So I think a lot of guys a giant part of MMA. The most exciting part of MMA is the kickboxing for sure. Yeah. 100%. 100%. So makes no sense. It's a it's a it is a untapped market. If somebody figured it out and dove in and made it, it would be
like highly produced and all this different stuff, interviews and conversations with their family. It's [ __ ] amazing. And it just gets you so jazzed up for the fight. If the UFC did something like that with kickboxing, I think it would be gigantic. You know, they tried Glory in America for a while
also use it to take people down. It's harder to take people down with the ring, I believe. 100% 100%. Yeah. So, but that's why it's it's good for me now. Like I Yeah, I know agent. There was [laughter] a talk about you fighting Derrick Lewis.
see yeah what was going on there but then yeah I got the other offer and it made more sense. Now was the other offer a one contract fight? A one fight contract? So you're free again? I'm a free agent again. Oh wow.
there was for me there's no conversation in like okay could he continue? Is he going to continue? I never stop. They don't know you. That's the other thing is the conditioning thing. Like your conditioning is so good. You bounce back so quick and there's been so many times where guys try to empty the tank
Tip tap and maybe you lose and maybe it's a draw, whatever. And then still you win. Uh because you were like five rounds ahead, then it doesn't make any sense. But now we had to keep pushing and then oh it's like walking straight into that uppercut like oh still it still gets me. Oh, when I look back at
Sadik is huge. Powerful powerful power. It's that's uh that that's hard for but I got to work on that for myself. Like Yeah, but that's also why you're great. [laughter] Yeah. I mean, you have to you have to hate mistakes. Hate them like like they're
different fight for some kind of reason. And that's that's crazy. A problem like we talked about. It's either incompetence or it's corruption. And I think it might be a little bit of both. Yeah. And I think maybe the corruption isn't even conscious, but it's like they know
they given you that's exciting. Can you talk about them? Uh not really. No. Tell me afterwards. Yeah. No. So they I know a lot of people talked about you possibly boxing Francis and Ganu or having an MMA fight with Francis Inanu.
kickboxer and even being a kickboxer and fighting arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time. 100%. 100%. But the crazy thing was I think I think it was around five or six. I was like he was jabbing me. I was just ticking it away and I was like bum bum
the way they like to move. They like to move to their right. Yeah. That's what they like. They feel good. They want to move to their right and throw a right hand, but you're just running into that power hand. It's just crazy that it's not just that, too. It's also the
to have multiple plans. Like for me, I was just throwing throw, throw, throw, throw. And I know I was the the first time I was going to hit him was maybe in punch six or whatever because then the distance is going to be closer. So I didn't even think about trying to knock his head off. That's what I said. I said
Jelly and an amazing boxer, but he's big. He's big. He's heavy. He's not an Usyk. He's like twice as big as Usyk, but he's a South. So he has that power and we could really compete. And then after that uh we we we jumped in with with James Branch and he's like 90 90 kilo South
that fight, and but what about what what what makes what's makes sense for us? And that's where I'm looking at now because like I said, I'm in I believe I'm in the winter of of my career. So, I'm I'm just looking at big fights.
that's like, you know, there's Moses Itama who people don't really know about enough yet. Not yet. is the future. 100%. Oh, that guy's good. Dynamite. Fast.
uh but still, I think that's where where his mind is at now. like he like he's like I just want to do what I want to do which makes so much sense after what what he has accomplished as a as after what he's accomplished he should be able to call his own shots and I want him to make the most money possible
So, have they talked to you about MMA as well? Uh, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I'm I'm keeping the options open. But you're leaning towards boxing? Yeah, because I've been in in the boxing game now and I've enjoyed it so much.
It was insane outside. It was insane, Joe. It's like let me tell you another story. Um so that happened uh also while I was in this camp. Uh it's not a nice nice thing to say but my mother passed away during uh the moment I was in camp for this
the communication is always like really like straightforward and it they don't say too much [laughter] So the way it began like the first thing I got was just like an WhatsApp picture. We're thinking about this location. [laughter] That was that was the thing because
going to crack open and then we're going to like for the first time that evening boom we're going to turn on the pyramids so that's cool that sounds good I'll do that [laughter] so I did that but it so I punched the ground I turn around and for the first time we see like the ground cracking open and then then the
and it was the temperature was was actually was was pretty good. What was the temperature? I think it was like 20 20Β°. So that's what is that? It's like 70 something. Yeah, sure. [laughter]
capable of either because I knew you as a kickboxer were one of the greatest of all time, but as a boxer, I hadn't seen I'm like, you're taking away one of his biggest weapons, which is the low kicks. I mean, your low kicks are phenomenal. You have to treat trunk legs, [laughter] you know? So, I was like, that's a giant
correct it mentally or did it get to a point where it was instinctive the stance and the positioning? We had to I had to definitely correct and they had to tell me. But were you correcting in the fight? In the fight was it down? Was it instinctive?
whole different Rico again. But if we're going to fight Usyk again, it's going to be slightly different. But it's [snorts] still like basically the the strategy worked well. You gave him so many things to think about constantly. Yeah. There was no time to set. No,
know my opponent is feeling [ __ ] Right. Right. Right. because I know how hard I work to be fit and to do everything possible to be in the best shape ever. Because if you look at training schedules or whatever from my schedule versus another guy's schedule,
I you want to know it all, right? Yeah. I want to know it all. I do a I do a full body full body workout uh three times a week and just a lot of reps. A lot of reps. So this is more strength than conditioning or is it both at the same time? It's both at the same time because
And that combination just I don't know. It's just it it's just been working for us throughout the years. So are you using uh apps and heart rate monitors and things along those lines? Yeah, we use hardware monitors. Um do running um in different different ways. We do the interval running, we do
a bucket handle miniscus and I had the acco. I had exactly the same thing. Yeah. It was It was terrible. Did they remove the meniscus? No. They just stitched it up. They stitch it back. So the first Yeah, they know that now.
You definitely use everything because you haven't aged a day since I since we did the last show. So I use everything. I don't I don't know how you do it, but after the show, you got to give me the recipe. Well, I probably do a lot of the things you do cuz I know you do cold plunge
afterwards, the alleviation of anxiety and pressure and just how good you feel, the endorphins. Yeah. I just wish people that don't do it could understand that because so many people they just have an aversion to the hard work. They have an aversion to like getting there. They just like, "Oh, I
and I had the same thing with my father was like right before the Ben Sadi fight and I just take it and I continue because what I do I take it and It's a certain emotional pain and I use that to put it in physical pain so I can use it as [snorts] fuel
February that's when I've watched it back for the first time just to take it all in again and again. And I went like all the way through it and I'm like, okay, I need to to do that more to get I don't know if it's balanced or just I don't know just to get like a way of feeling like yeah, I can
physical pain. So, I know I get a be a better version of me within the ring. So, I hear what you're saying. But if you want to get into acting, it's good to feel because as soon as you feel, it's even better. is going to transition even better on camera because then we see that you're feeling something and if
He loves it. Yeah. So, uh so that's Yeah. That's that's amazing. So, and then Yeah. telling him that like, "Hey, I love the X." So, I he comes to my fights. I visit him on set like, "Hey, I just look at what he does and how he does it. It's Yeah, it's out
he's got a he's losing weight now to like show he's like Yeah. But he looks he looks amazing. [ __ ] gigantic. Yeah. He's still big. He's still 200. I mean like Oh, he's so small. He's 240. He's huge. No, he's huge. And he's in great shape.
when you're talking about these different conversations that people have had with you, is the door completely closed to the UFC? Because I know that they did contact you and you were talk they were talking about you fighting and that they were going to try to do that Derrick Lewis fight. I was excited about
the nicest guy and he works incredibly hard and he would never never even though because I understand where it comes from from the people to a certain extent because they feel like hey God was doing so good in the beginning of the fight but it was just the beginning of the fight. it was just like the first
hand is in this position all the time. Instead of the UFC glove, UFC glove, your hands like this. You have to pull it down to tighten up the fist. In this in with Trevor's gloves, it's curved like this. So, this is a natural position. So, you would like when Muay Thai fighters like serial gun, they they
show you I'll send you this video. I'll I'll send it to Jamie. Sir Gan can [ __ ] move, man. And some of the he's light light feeted as well. And he's 250 lbs. Yeah. But it's the way he moves is so extraordinary. And I think some of that is because of basketball because
I believe he can he can be a good boxer, but he can also be a good kickboxer and he's a good MMA fighter. He's so all around because when he he comes to kick when he came to kickbox wow I just so I just hate that fans reacted the way they reacted and it's the casual ones it's the [ __ ] you know I for
that bring in the viewers that are exciting. Yeah. They should earn a little bit more, right? That is everything should be in balance. 100%. And that that's um I mean this is where uh Turkey Alashik has really ramped up the game, really raised the
everybody said like, "Oh, he's not going to get he's not going to have a shot because Canelo is going to be too big. As soon as he as he hit him, he's going to get rocked." And he's like, "No, I think uh no, that was that was incredible." And they were they were all at the fight experiments, by the way.
a rematch. When a fight is that close and ends that controversially and then the judging is the scoring is that bad, you the the right thing to do is to have a rematch. Yeah. And then in a different, like I said, in a different environment, in different situation that
that whenever you when he when you hear something and you say nah that's not possible. I think that's the right trigger he that's the exactly the trigger he needs like I'll make it possible. I'll make it happen. That's the same with the pyramids. And then with the uh with the
that out because, you know, they're they're dedicated to entering into the MMA space now and they just merged with the PFL. Yeah. Which I think is very exciting cuz I think competition is good. Competition is great. And the more competition the better and definitely
And it's just because of the the modern day world, because of social media and so many different people coming into the sport and people can say and have an opinion about it, but for example with with with Jake Paul and etc. and all the influencers, but they're bringing a lot of new eyes to the combat sport, to
sparring with them, and then you learn this from that guy, you learn that from that guy. And if you do that, for example, in in the US, you want to train with somebody out new from New York, you got to fly all the way there. You're not going to stay there too long. I think it just takes too much time. And
to watch. We're good at this. We're we're we we're the best in the world at this sport. Are there gyms all over the place in Holland? It's inc it's it was crazy. At a certain point he went it was so crazy that every random guy could become a kickboxing teacher. So now because it's it beca
But his boxing too was a giant factor. So explosive. So explosive. And his style was so aggressive. Like he was like going he was feral. He was just like people who haven't seen please go to YouTube and watch Ramon Decker's
it needs to be safe and with the judging and yeah, it needs to be it needs to be in moneywise and with the judging and everything just needs to be Yeah. needs to be right because what we do is out of this world. Yes. And it's it's not just kickboxing, it's
on earth. Yeah. But that's why I'm saying this because it's it's not as much for me anymore because I'm I'm I'm close to being finished, right? You know, like like we we said, I'm in the winner of my career, but it's for the next generation.
more we need more options for fighters and you know it's it's unusual in that in um boxing for instance what's really important is the name of the fighters that's what's important you know if uh Dimmitri Bivval is fighting it's it's people are going to see they don't give a [ __ ] who the promoter is they want to
was not really a part of the glory promotion. No, they were just like, "Put up fights. Put the best versus the best." And this Listen, for me, I don't care. It was [ __ ] great. [laughter] I love it. I'm a giant Glory fan, man. Every time there's a card, I can't wait.
where the problem is I think with them but also with uh with glory they're just like pouring in money. Pouring in money and a certain moment it's like I also understand like the one that's investing into like how much money am I going to need to pour in this before it's going to do something. You
steps into a sport, but I I think it's only better with his reputation. Yeah. [laughter] It's only Yeah. with money with uh, you know, like and the amount of money they're throwing at the boxers. The MMA guys are like, "Hey, what are you doing?
especially with kickboxing, you know, like you're only doing boxing. that training lost like you have to recalibrate your whole break takes forever. Yeah. I was I was just it was just excitement. It was just my excitement. Put it out
outside a kilushian guy. So it's it's just all just hard style inside outside inside outside. What is what is your opinion on that? Because me and my trainer, we were debating the the the calf kick because next to it being super effective, it's also a long long-term injury when you
go I mean, this is how Chris Weidman broke his leg. Yeah. You know, he threw a really hard low kick and he caught the knee. He caught the shin right below the knee and snapped his leg in half. If it gets checked and you and you've hit it the wrong way, especially you hit
been [ __ ] ever since. And he had to have surgery, had a second surgery, and he's still out. Yeah. Yeah. It's It's about That's what bothers me about that is that you might not ever recover if your
they're not allowed to do that anymore. You can't stomp. But you can in Ryzen allows like back in the day they did they did that. Yep. You used to be able to stomp and soccer kick. But think when a guy shoots on your legs
help you get up at all. No. Like if somebody takes you down against that, that's you're not that doesn't help you. Where a wall [ __ ] helps you. And there's guys that are doing workouts now where they put their back up against a wall and they're doing kettle bell
like we we just talked about everything has Yeah. It pros and its cons. Everything has its pros and its cons. And everything is exciting in its own way. like boxing on its own, like there's elements of boxing that you
but it's it's more intense. It's more brutal and it's quick. It's like the pace is so fast. And in the championship fights were just five rounds, right? So, if you lose one round, you're like, "Oh." And now it's like, like I said, it's it's an art. You have 12 rounds.
when you fight the elite. You get Daniel Cormier always says you get the rub. Like you fight an elite guy, win, lose or draw, you get the rub. Like you some of it rubs off on you. Exactly. So that's why I'm excited to see you fight again, too.
them all the gold. That's maybe my name and my face on it. Like, [laughter] okay, put it in first. I think that's the fight. And I hope you get it. I really do. But either way, you your performance was extraordinary and